Cycle help

[map200uk]

After some suggestions for a cycle, got 3 under my belt..but not cycled for a long time due to personal reasons and problems

Basically developed a gambling problem, so had enough to deal with, still trained as normal but wasn't in the right mindset

Currently 26, 6`2 220lbs
Looking at getting back on;

my last cycle would have been something like 1g test enanwk 1-12 deca 500mg/wk 1-8 with dbol kick starting

I was thinking maybe something very similar, maybe replacing the dbol with OT

Weeks 1-4 Oral Turinabol 80mgs
Weeks 1-15 1gs test enanthat/week
Wks 1-12 deca 500mg/week

for PCT I was going to keep it simple following:

Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva


Any advice greatly appreciated

-map

[H_U_G_O]

Hey bro,
Please state your body fat %...

It would be better to replace Dbol by Oral Turnibol in your cycle since your taking high dosage Turnibol is more gentle than Dbol... "Oral Turinabol has a much lower level of androgenic activity compared to dianabol, but a better balance/ratio of anabolic and androgenic effects." and i advise you take it for 5-6 weeks instead of 4 since your cycle is 15 weeks.

I would recommend a better PCT since your are on 500mg/week deca and 1g/week test
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/40/20
HCG 500 ius every Friday on cycle or 5000 ius/week for 3 weeks after 19 days from your last test injection.

I assume that you are bulking in which it is a good cycle, but if you are cutting (summer is coming) i recommend a cutting cycle.

Regards,

[map200uk]

hey bro

yea I know it's summer soon! ..a cutting cycle makes more sense in that respect..but we don't get much good weather here anyway

bf% ~ 10% i'd estimate

Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/40/20

for the PCT you mention how many days using those doses?

cheers

[Lemonada8]

why are you going with a gram of test a week? wow, IMO a lil over kill
run a lower dose of test IMO, you dont need over kill and if u do low doses you can stack with out much complications.

do u take a AI on cycle or any anit-e? i would assume so cuz of the amount of test.

good luck!

[H_U_G_O]

Clomid
week 1 and 2 100 mg / week 3 and 4 50mg
Nolva week 1, 2, and 3 40mg / week 4 20 mg


Keep on hand Armidex, HCG, and proviron in case of sudden sides.. and it would be a good idea from dropping the 1g test to 750... play it safe and smart Bro.

[map200uk]

In response to why 1g, i did 500mgs first cycle, then 1g and I'm fairly sure my most recent cycle was either 1250 or 1500 - so I figured I'd go back and do 1gram/week

Lemonada8 I was going to possible run arimidex & nolva during cycle -

If I was to run adex & nolva during cycle rather than have it on hand incase of signs how much should I do each day?

[THE-DET-OAK]

running nolva with a progestin (deca) is not a good idea at all..................there is no need for a gram of test, in fact i have found 500 to be plenty.

[Lemonada8]

i would personally say do a lower dose, testosterone can only induce so many receptors. Use stacking to increase your results, if you go with a typical dose of test ,anything over 250/week would be good as a base for test, then do your stacks at normal dosage. that way you wont have as much of a change of test levels in your pct. be sure to do a massive pct for that, the ratio between oncycle test and natural test vary huge and increase the chances of sides/complications. also, be sure to get some HCG in your cycle to help keep your intratesticular testosterone up, to help maximize recovery. I posted a thread about that floatin around here...

also considering that was your last cycle a few years ago, not necessary to do that much again.

as for running a ai/serm during cycle, i say hold off and play with the doses of ur gear personally. you are using all 3 types of major steroids in the body. 17a, test, 19-nor. the enzymes converting these should decrease. If anything you should run a low dose Finasteride (to help jumpstart the inhibition of DHT conversion. for the first week then stop. That will help lower the amount of that enzyme in ur cycle, then when you stop the oral turinabol, it will slowly increase, and it the sides begin to increase you already have the fina to cover that. (main side is mpb, and other DHT side effects)
as for the deca and ai/serm, no need either, because deca converts like 20% to effective estrogen, which at supranormal amounts is plenty to cover the main functions it does without going overboard. (breast tissue, prostate, etc) To help jumpstart this inhibition of conversion, you can run a low dose AI for the first 2 weeks until the deca is active
So if you notice having a excess of certain sides, try to increase your test first to "up the supply" to lower the amount of conversion "needed". If you have any questoins concerning this, just pm me and i can def talk further on this. *goes for anybody who needs advice, pm me and ill see what i can do*
So for your cycle i would rather run something like this:

oral turnibol 50mg ed week 1-4, 10-14
Test Enth 350mgs in 2 shots of 175 3.5 days apart week 1-15
*see if you can add some prop in there, depending on how your body converts test to DHT you might have more suppression than others with the oral turnibol.
hows the hair on your mothers side of the family? the men, and esp if a women is bald. If it is high, then its a high chance that you have high conversion to DHT resulting in more suppression of natural testonsterone due do blocking the conversion of test to DHT, and the overflow of DHT (turnibol) so Prop would be something like 50mg ED week 1-4
Deca 500mg 1x week 1-14
HCG 1000iu 1x week week 2-16, week 17 500 iu, week 18 250iu
Nolva Week 16-20 @ 40/40/20/20/10
Clomid Week 16-20 100/100/50/50/25

anyways good luck..

[THE-DET-OAK]

To help jumpstart this inhibition of conversion, you can run a low dose AI for the first 2 weeks until the deca is active
So if you notice having a excess of certain sides, try to increase your test first to "up the supply" to lower the amount of conversion "needed"..

I dont understand what your saying here lem. whay would he stop the AI in 2 weeks when deca is becoming active? Althoug deca barely aromatises it DOES NOT inhibit aromatization. besides he is still running 350mg of test, which will be aromatising, on top of a small amount of deca. Not to mention that HCG directly stimulates aromatization....................

dont get me wrong im not saying he NEEDS an AI with this cycle, i just dont understand why on earth he would run AI for 2 weeks then stop?????

also why do you suggest running HCG during SERM treatment? HCG is suppressive to our endogenous T production.

[Lemonada8]

he would run the ai when the deca is becoming active to help inhibit aromatization. Deca shuts down natural production very quickly, and he is using test e, which is a longer ester. He runs the chance to lower his natural test to much before the test e kicks in. the AI would help prevent the test in the body from converting to estrogen. then when the deca and test are in full tilt and proper balance, that should minimize sides and unwanted occurances.
HCG keeps intratestitular testosterone volume up, which helps recovery time. HCG is a necessity for cycles.

[THE-DET-OAK]

he would run the ai when the deca is becoming active to help inhibit aromatization. Deca shuts down natural production very quickly, and he is using test e, which is a longer ester. He runs the chance to lower his natural test to much before the test e kicks in. the AI would help prevent the test in the body from converting to estrogen. then when the deca and test are in full tilt and proper balance, that should minimize sides and unwanted occurances.
HCG keeps intratestitular testosterone volume up, which helps recovery time. HCG is a necessity for cycles.

Lem you didnt answer any of my questions.

#1 i know HCG is a necessity for cycling, but running while you are running a SERM is counter productive period.

deca kicking in a minimizing sides makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, sorry.

[Lemonada8]

running HCG with a serm is not counter productive. Serm have agonist/antagonist actions which means it activates the receptor along with blocking it

In men, 19-nors shouldnt be in great quantities in the body. if there is, you have back flow if suppression. *depending on individuals conversion rates.* On cycle with deca ,you get shut down hard really quick before it 'kicks' in. this while the test e isnt doing anything and already being partially inhibited by the oral turinabol. Taking an AI in the frist few weeks of taking DECA will help incnrease the levels of testosterone in the body (untill the test e starts to kick in) by decreasing the aromatization. That helps keep testosteone around, and minimizes the conversion. Then when test e and deca are both in full swing, then u can adjust the doses/drugs that minimize sides.

[THE-DET-OAK]

dude you are so wrong its not even funny, just 1 shot of 200mg of T will put your levels above range. taking deca WILL NOT slow or stop aromatization and whoever told you that does not know their ass from a hole in the ground.

I guess im gonna break this down for you about HCG cause you are not getting it.

HCG mimics the LH hormone. when your body recognizes high amounts of this hormone it will stop sending out LH. a SERM just tells your body to send out LH and thats it.

with that being said why would i take 1 drug that tells my body i dont need LH and another drug that tells it to produce more??????

HCG IS SUPPRESSIVE LEMONADA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TAKING WHILE YOUR TRYING TO GET YOUR NATURAL HORMONES UP AND RUNNING IS STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Windex]

In response to why 1g, i did 500mgs first cycle, then 1g and I'm fairly sure my most recent cycle was either 1250 or 1500 - so I figured I'd go back and do 1gram/week

Lemonada8 I was going to possible run arimidex & nolva during cycle -

If I was to run adex & nolva during cycle rather than have it on hand incase of signs how much should I do each day?

You've done 3 cycles already, and your only 26 ? When did you first start taking steroids. 1g of Test is a lot...and your last cycle was 1250 - 1500 ? I really think you should get some blood work done before doing another cycle.

[Lemonada8]

dude you are so wrong its not even funny, just 1 shot of 200mg of T will put your levels above range. taking deca WILL NOT slow or stop aromatization and whoever told you that does not know their ass from a hole in the ground.

I guess im gonna break this down for you about HCG cause you are not getting it.

HCG mimics the LH hormone. when your body recognizes high amounts of this hormone it will stop sending out LH. a SERM just tells your body to send out LH and thats it.

with that being said why would i take 1 drug that tells my body i dont need LH and another drug that tells it to produce more??????

HCG IS SUPPRESSIVE LEMONADA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TAKING WHILE YOUR TRYING TO GET YOUR NATURAL HORMONES UP AND RUNNING IS STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL... and im the one who is confused.


To below, saw that, edited post before u could say :P I thought the 'just' was 'that' lol in the bold

[THE-DET-OAK]

LOL HCG is a SERM... along with LH...

thats all i gotta say

we must have a language barrier or reading comprehension problem here. cause i have no clue how you got out of my post that HCG is a SERM..............................you just touted the feedback loop in another thread, yet your not willing to recognize that problem here, when running a SERM with HCG......................

[map200uk]

looking at the above suggestions, perhaps it'd be best to decrease the test to 750mg/wk?

I don't want to drop it as low as 375 , was thinking 500mg/wk min, but then the deca would be the same as the test, better to run test higher so i don't get shutdown hard?

Adex during cycle .25mg ed , if signs of gyno/bloat increase to .5mg ed?

Would it be worth using nolva during the cycle too? or just keep on hand and if signs of gyno take 10-20mg ed?