Var/Test E cycle Need Some Advice Plz.....

[Tooeasy]

K I was planning on doing a cutting cycle:
week 1-10 Test E 375
week 1-8 Var @ 40mg
PCT: I have clomid or Nova.. When should i start this and how much should I take.

As for stats 26yrs old... 6ft 230.... @ 20%bf... first 2 cycles was cyp./ deca and now wanna cut it up... as for diet been on point low carb high pro.. any advice would be good thanks in advance

[Windex]

K I was planning on doing a cutting cycle:
week 1-10 Test E 375
week 1-8 Var @ 40mg
PCT: I have clomid or Nova.. When should i start this and how much should I take.

As for stats 26yrs old... 6ft 230.... @ 20%bf... first 2 cycles was cyp./ deca and now wanna cut it up... as for diet been on point low carb high pro.. any advice would be good thanks in advance

The bolded terms are paradoxical. If your diet was dialed in, you would not be at 20% Bodyfat. I would strongly encourage you to post your diet to be critqued and improved in the diets section of this forum. If your asking for PCT advice and you've already done two cycles, your body could be in serious biological problems. Getting blood work done is also encouraged, because there is no way you should not know what to do for PCT if you've done your research and done proper cycles. In addition, two cycles at 26 is a lot, and your still at a high bodyfat. In conclusion, fix your diet.

[THE-DET-OAK]

your not gonna need var. your T dose is good though for cutting, all T will do when cutting is help preserve muscle while on a calorie deficient diet. with proper amounts of cardio and strength traing, and a proper diet, T is a good cutter.

[Tooeasy]

windex.... i should of posted, I went from being 39%bf 300lbs to where im at now... diet started back up 2 weeks ago... diet i will post later tomorrow its not 2am ...
TDO... would that be enough if i just did the T?
Thanks again

[Windex]

windex.... i should of posted, I went from being 39%bf 300lbs to where im at now... diet started back up 2 weeks ago... diet i will post later tomorrow its not 2am ...
TDO... would that be enough if i just did the T?
Thanks again

That is a great improvement. If you can go from 39% BF to 20% bodyfat, then simply drop another 5-7% Bodyfat for a better base. At 20% bodyfat, you are significantly more susceptible to estrogen-related side effects. Regardless, blood work is something you should definitely acquire before touching another syringe.

[THE-DET-OAK]

At 20% bodyfat, you are significantly more susceptible to estrogen-related side effects.

I have been reading this a ton around here, while its nice to get to a lower BF% before cycling so that the new mass you will add will look better, peopl cycle at this bf% all the time without issue. It does not make THAT big of a difference. I know skinny guys that have to take a ton of AI's and some football players and powerlifters that dont take any. at his dose its nothing an AI wont take care of. to tell someone they shouldn't cycle at that BF% does not make sense to me, to tell them to be more cautious of aromatase at higher BF is fine.

[dec11]

I have been reading this a ton around here, while its nice to get to a lower BF% before cycling so that the new mass you will add will look better, peopl cycle at this bf% all the time without issue. It does not make THAT big of a difference. I know skinny guys that have to take a ton of AI's and some football players and powerlifters that dont take any. at his dose its nothing an AI wont take care of. to tell someone they shouldn't cycle at that BF% does not make sense to me, to tell them to be more cautious of aromatase at higher BF is fine.

our new resident 'expert'
whore galore

[marcus300]

You should reduce your bf before cycling, go into a natural cut and get your bf down to around 12-14% and then reconsider doing a cycle. Go to the diet section and post your diet and let us all re-design it for you and also an intense cardio programme is needed.

[THE-DET-OAK]

no flamming or insighting fighting.

[THE-DET-OAK]

You should reduce your bf before cycling, go into a natural cut and get your bf down to around 12-14% and then reconsider doing a cycle. Go to the diet section and post your diet and let us all re-design it for you and also an intense cardio programme is needed.

why is that marcus???

[THE-DET-OAK]

i guess whor galore doesnt count as flaming then...........................

[marcus300]

why is that marcus???

Because he will be more than likely to receive sides running AAS at that BF. Also many people start using compounds when its not needed, cutting bf doesn't really need AAS straight away you can do alot naturally with diet and cardio and once you come to a brick wall with your gains you can start taking some kind of support what will further the BF loss.

[dec11]

i guess whor galore doesnt count as flaming then...........................

stop giving rubbish 'advice'. you've amassed 131 posts in a day, mostly challenging every good bit of advice on here. you butted onto a thread y'day flaming me, the thread had absolutely nothing to do with you. you make constant assumptions that i and some others have no experience at all.

[THE-DET-OAK]

Because he will be more than likely to receive sides running AAS at that BF. Also many people start using compounds when its not needed, cutting bf doesn't really need AAS straight away you can do alot naturally with diet and cardio and once you come to a brick wall with your gains you can start taking some kind of support what will further the BF loss.

can you explain how higher bf% would cause more sides??? also are you saying that taking say 375mg of testosterone would not keep him from losing his precious muscle that he has earned while on a calorie deficient diet??? we are in agreement that it is alot harder to add lean mass then it is to reduce BF% right?

[THE-DET-OAK]

stop giving rubbish 'advice'. you've amassed 131 posts in a day, mostly challenging every good bit of advice on here. you butted onto a thread y'day flaming me, the thread had absolutely nothing to do with you. you make constant assumptions that i and some others have no experience at all.

rubbish advice??? please tell me why its rubbish then instead of just spouting that it is rubbish............instead of spouting all the bro-lore you have read.

[dec11]

rubbish advice??? please tell me why its rubbish then instead of just spouting that it is rubbish............instead of spouting all the bro-lore you have read.

ahh, somebody ban this guy please

[THE-DET-OAK]

ban me for what??? voicing my opinion and challenging members to back up their post with some kind of knowledge or experience??? is that too much to ask?

[marcus300]

can you explain how higher bf% would cause more sides??? also are you saying that taking say 375mg of testosterone would not keep him from losing his precious muscle that he has earned while on a calorie deficient diet??? we are in agreement that it is alot harder to add lean mass then it is to reduce BF% right?

When you have a high bf % it increases the conversion factor of testosterone to estrogen, this will increase the sides related to high estrogen. You can also be more likely to higher water retention sides and increased BP when you have a higher BF %.

[dec11]

ban me for what??? voicing my opinion and challenging members to back up their post with some kind of knowledge or experience??? is that too much to ask?

giving bad advice, rubbishing good advice that the rest of us give, i can post the threads up for you since you seem to have a short memory. your a banned re-join, its obvious

[THE-DET-OAK]

When you have a high bf % it increases the conversion factor of testosterone to estrogen,

just because aromatase activity happens in adipose tissue that does not mean that someone with a higher BF will automatically increase aromatase activity. it is the case that it may happen but it may not happen as well. this is the case at any BF%

this will increase the sides related to high estrogen.

running an AI as a precaution would prevent this from happening.

You can also be more likely to higher water retention sides and increased BP when you have a higher BF %.

increased water retention is from high estrogen, not from high BF%. the AI will prevent this. additionally water retention can be controlled with a proper diet. this is the part where everyone is going to say well he is 20% so his diet is obviously not good. there are many studies coming out recently showing how obesity is related to low Igf-1 and low testosterone levels, maybe he has an issue there that is inhibiting him from getting him to where he wants to be without losing all the muscle he earned on his first 2 cycles.

this brings me to my next point, everyone wants to say that T does not burn fat. well that couldnt be further from the truth. recent studies have shown that proper T levels reduce visceral fat and reduce the risk of cardio vascular events.

if we are going to assume that since he has a high BF% he will aromatise more why cant we assume that his T levels are low since he has a higher BF%??????

my point is it really doesnt matter what BF% you are, when taking an aromatising compound there is a good chance your aromatase activity will increase.

Experience: I have cycled at 20% bf with no AI without issues, guess im just lucky. conversly my buddy is 9% and can not even touch T without letro.

the following is a study done on normal men that had never taken AAS. do you think they were all under 20%???

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.full

IMO trying to scare someone with a higher BF% out of cycling is fine. but not for the reasons you listed cause they can be easily remedied.

[THE-DET-OAK]

giving bad advice, rubbishing good advice that the rest of us give, i can post the threads up for you since you seem to have a short memory. your a banned re-join, its obvious

I have never been banned form any forum ever. I post mostly on ology and am in good standing. Im a mod on another board, and frequent a few others, nice try though. and please point out my bad advice, i have requested that you do this many times.

[dec11]

I have never been banned form any forum ever. I post mostly on ology and am in good standing. Im a mod on another board, and frequent a few others, nice try though. and please point out my bad advice, i have requested that you do this many times.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ction-question...

[THE-DET-OAK]

dec11-people that pass on bro-lore cause they read it somewhere are a disease to our great community, people need to have a full understanding, or at least experience in the matter they are giving advice on. I have seen more people pass on blanket statements in my last 2 days than i ever have before. thats why my post count is high, its easy to shed some light on the truth around here.

[THE-DET-OAK]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ction-question...

out of my 139 posts that is the bad advice i should be banned for? dec please.............................

[marcus300]

just because aromatase activity happens in adipose tissue that does not mean that someone with a higher BF will automatically increase aromatase activity. it is the case that it may happen but it may not happen as well. this is the case at any BF%



running an AI as a precaution would prevent this from happening.




increased water retention is from high estrogen, not from high BF%. the AI will prevent this. additionally water retention can be controlled with a proper diet. this is the part where everyone is going to say well he is 20% so his diet is obviously not good. there are many studies coming out recently showing how obesity is related to low Igf-1 and low testosterone levels, maybe he has an issue there that is inhibiting him from getting him to where he wants to be without losing all the muscle he earned on his first 2 cycles.

this brings me to my next point, everyone wants to say that T does not burn fat. well that couldnt be further from the truth. recent studies have shown that proper T levels reduce visceral fat and reduce the risk of cardio vascular events.

if we are going to assume that since he has a high BF% he will aromatise more why cant we assume that his T levels are low since he has a higher BF%??????

my point is it really doesnt matter what BF% you are, when taking an aromatising compound there is a good chance your aromatase activity will increase.

Experience: I have cycled at 20% bf with no AI without issues, guess im just lucky. conversly my buddy is 9% and can not even touch T without letro.

the following is a study done on normal men that had never taken AAS. do you think they were all under 20%???

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.full

IMO trying to scare someone with a higher BF% out of cycling is fine. but not for the reasons you listed cause they can be easily remedied.

Fat cell receptors have more of an affinity to aromatising so if you have more fat cells than you have more of a chance to increased estrogen related sides. Usually poor diet is related to higher bf % so this needs addressing first before steroids are used, especially if it increases side effects.

Study you quoted as no relation what so ever.

[THE-DET-OAK]

Fat cell receptors have more of an affinity to aromatising so if you have more fat cells than you have more of a chance to increased estrogen related sides. Usually poor diet is related to higher bf % so this needs addressing first before steroids are used, especially if it increases side effects.

Study you quoted as no relation what so ever.

the study was to point out that out of 65 random men, at those doses, only 1 had a problem with acne. not one had issues with blood pressure. maybe you dont think its relevant but my point is a reasonable dose of T most guys dont get any sides, thats why we recommend it as a first cycle.

with this post you are saying there is a chance of higher aromatization, in your prior post you said it WILL happen, you said the same thing i did, aromatase happens in adipose tissue, the more you have the more CHANCE aromatase will increase.

the AI squashes this debate, even if your 55% BF.

lastly i understand that he needs to work on his diet, but if he goes on restriction without having his diet perfected he will most likely lose alot of the lean mass he gained during his first 2 cycles. this isnt this guy's first cycle, telling him, at this point to diet without T is basically gonna wash away any gains he has made with his first 2 cycles.

what do powerlifters do to prevent sides marcus? most of them are above 20%

[marcus300]

the study was to point out that out of 65 random men, at those doses, only 1 had a problem with acne. not one had issues with blood pressure. maybe you dont think its relevant but my point is a reasonable dose of T most guys dont get any sides, thats why we recommend it as a first cycle.

with this post you are saying there is a chance of higher aromatization, in your prior post you said it WILL happen, you said the same thing i did, aromatase happens in adipose tissue, the more you have the more CHANCE aromatase will increase.

the AI squashes this debate, even if your 55% BF.

The study doesn't state any bf % so how can it relate to this thread when we are talking about higher bf % vs low bf %.

If your fat cells have a more affinity to aromatise then you have a higher % of increases estrogen related sides, it can happen and more or less will happen. Why on earth would you use an AI when your diet needs alot of work and your cutting can be done without steroids without any chance of estrogen related sides. Your logic is way off IMHO and if you want to advice member who have a higher bf % you carry on but I doubt anyone here will agree with you.

[THE-DET-OAK]

saying that it will happen is such a blanket statement. it didnt happen to me. there is no way to know whether one is prone to aroma regardless of their BF%.

as far as why on earth would i use an AI? everyone should be using opne regardless of BF%. if yo are not estrogen is most likely playing hell with your body, wether you know it or not.

[THE-DET-OAK]

dec any input or you just gonna jump on the shoulders of others?

[marcus300]

saying that it will happen is such a blanket statement. it didnt happen to me. there is no way to know whether one is prone to aroma regardless of their BF%.

as far as why on earth would i use an AI? everyone should be using opne regardless of BF%. if yo are not estrogen is most likely playing hell with your body, wether you know it or not.

I dont agree with you at all and I can tell I am wasting my time in trying to explain why because you have some kind of block on the subject. You carry on advising the best you can and so will I lol.

[marcus300]

dec any input or you just gonna jump on the shoulders of others?

Do not try and start fights with members, if you have a problem pm Dec, but dont do it on the open board or you stay here will be short, thanks/

[dec11]

dec11-people that pass on bro-lore cause they read it somewhere are a disease to our great community, people need to have a full understanding, or at least experience in the matter they are giving advice on. I have seen more people pass on blanket statements in my last 2 days than i ever have before. thats why my post count is high, its easy to shed some light on the truth around here.

well i can assure you i dont comment on what i dont know. i have injected water with oil on many many occasions and fail to see where you reckon its an abscess hazard.

i requested that someone didnt advise without knowing age on another thread, you jumped in like rocket to condemn my post, when asked to butt out by a vet you continued a tirade against how we do things here. this forum prides itself on good advice and leaves the reckless uniformed crap to the bro-science forums you are maybe used to.

you can shout and flame all you like with me, 140 post in 2days says it all. im done with you.

[THE-DET-OAK]

I dont agree with you at all and I can tell I am wasting my time in trying to explain why because you have some kind of block on the subject. You carry on advising the best you can and so will I lol.

im not totally dis-agreeing with you. people with high BF% need an AI. people with high BF% shouldnt be cycling (until their diet is sorted, he said his is). but this guy has already done 2 cycles of test and deca. not everyone is going for the BB look, some guys just like being big, in general 20% is not fat, maybe in the bb world it is.

as far as starting fights with dec, if i get banned for sticking up for myself so be it. he is constantly following my posts yet he does not add any insight whatsoever, he just spouts off empty posts, so i dont care for him. wether you are a mod or not i have more respect cause you actually add something to the thread. I mean he is all over me about the water/oil post and I clearly gave both sides to the scenario. I have ask Dr scally about it before and he said he would be hesitant to do so. so i stated both sides. dec needs to grow up.

[THE-DET-OAK]

Do not try and start fights with members, if you have a problem pm Dec, but dont do it on the open board or you stay here will be short, thanks/

I cant PM i told you that !!!!! lol

[marcus300]

im not totally dis-agreeing with you. people with high BF% need an AI. people with high BF% shouldnt be cycling (until their diet is sorted, he said his is). but this guy has already done 2 cycles of test and deca. not everyone is going for the BB look, some guys just like being big, in general 20% is not fat, maybe in the bb world it is.

as far as starting fights with dec, if i get banned for sticking up for myself so be it. he is constantly following my posts yet he does not add any insight whatsoever, he just spouts off empty posts, so i dont care for him. wether you are a mod or not i have more respect cause you actually add something to the thread. I mean he is all over me about the water/oil post and I clearly gave both sides to the scenario. I have ask Dr scally about it before and he said he would be hesitant to do so. so i stated both sides. dec needs to grow up.

If you have a problem with a member post it in the one to one section and I can take it up. But you did post asking him " any input or you just gonna jump on the shoulders of others?" which is trying to start fights, please dont start fights with members if you have a problem with a member let me know or another staff member or simply ignore him.

[THE-DET-OAK]

i will do my best not to start fights with dec-i honestly wouldnt care enough to PM him anyway...............this is the internet my feelings will not get hurt here. hopefully dec will refrain from making empty comments about my posts, and challenge them if he has a problem with them. there is no need for further action about our interaction, im fine with it.

[dec11]

i will do my best not to start fights with dec-i honestly wouldnt care enough to PM him anyway...............this internet my feelings will not get hurt here. hopefully dec will refrain from making empty comments about my posts, and challenge them if he has a problem with them. there is no need for further action about our interaction, im fine with it.

dont bother, it wont get a reply