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  1. #1
    BlackSilver84's Avatar
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    Exclamation ***** My First Cycle, Please Critique Guys *****

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    i dont think you have enough to cycle if you only have 10ml total of prop that will only last you 10 days...or 20 if you inject eod imho...

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    MACHINE5150 is offline "AR's Vanilla Gorilla"
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    soo 100mg test prop and 100mg of winny every day??? that is a bit much for a first cycle

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    THE-DET-OAK is offline Banned
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    thats too much gear bro-are you gonna try and rid the gyno first?

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    robofish is offline Associate Member
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    thats 700mgs of test a week for a first cycle... my first cycle was 500mgs of test e a week. Honestly i dont see any reason for so much test at that hieght and weight but than again im no expert. As far a winny i dont know... i hear its very hard on joints.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSilver84 View Post
    I made a typo above, I will have 4 packages , 40 ampules doesd at (1 ml each) , my bad
    ahh thats a bit better...is this your first cycle..if it is id go with every other day injections so you can go longer with your cycle and feel less like a pin cushion...

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    THE-DET-OAK is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by robofish View Post
    thats 700mgs of test a week for a first cycle... my first cycle was 500mgs of test e a week. Honestly i dont see any reason for so much test at that hieght and weight but than again im no expert. As far a winny i dont know... i hear its very hard on joints.
    I agree too much T for first cycle. also remember ester weight when calculating doses. 700 mg of prop is: about 595 pure test. that equates to about 850mg of test e.

    100mg EOD of prop is plenty for a first cycle.

    at 182 lbs you would be much better suited with 300 grams protein, especially on cycle.
    Last edited by THE-DET-OAK; 05-03-2011 at 07:00 PM.

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    robofish is offline Associate Member
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    Yeah id also hand around and see if a vet posts on here they know a ton. And can help you out much more than i can

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    robofish is offline Associate Member
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    [QUOTE=THE-DET-OAK;5627288] also remember ester weight when calculating doses. 700 mg of prop is: about 595 pure test. that equates to about 850mg of test eQUOTE]

    Sry dont mean to jAck the tread i would a sent a pm but i dont know why it wouldnt let me... But how do you figure out how much test your really getting?

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    and honestly you should/could probably get away wil .5ml Ed or 1 ml EOD (350mg per week) since prop is more potent than enanthate . if you want to bump it up a bit test to .75ml ED or 1.5ml EOD.. so 525mg per week total than that is fine.. but start at the lower dose.. you probably won't notice much of a difference.

    as for the winny 100mg Ed is WAY too much.. do half of that or else you will seriously fvck up your liver in the process.. run the winny weeks 3-8 and prop 1-8... start PCT 3-4 days after final injection..

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    robofish is offline Associate Member
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    Yeah i was going to suggest extending the cycle to 8weeks if your dropping the test doesage. Also about the pct idk if 100mgs ED clomid for 2 weeks is nesscary... My last cycle i ran 100mgs ED of clomid for 5 days than dropped it to 75mgs for a week than 50mgs for like the last 2 weeks. but thats just me id like someone else to put their input in befor you take my word for it lol

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    THE-DET-OAK is offline Banned
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    each ester has a weight. its a percentage. for prop ester weight is roughly 15%

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSilver84 View Post
    Hey guys, thinking about starting my first cycle, ever in my whole life. I will list everything I am considering to take and the length of time I plan to cycle, please critique. =]

    here we go...

    My Stats:

    I am currently around 14% body fat
    6ft, even
    about 182 lbs
    27 years old
    consume about 200 grams of protein daily
    I eat 5 meals, every 3 hours daily, consuming about 2800 calories (low fat meals, grilled chicken, steak, egg whites & of course, about 4 protein shakes)

    My cycle will be as follows:

    Oral Winny 100mg tabs (120 count) daily - week 1 - 6

    Injectable Testosterone P 10 ampules (1 ml each) 100mg daily - week 1 - 6

    PCT:

    Nolvadex - 40/40/20/20
    Clomid - 100/100/50/50

    All my info listed above is from a very reliable, helpful source. I just wanted some additional feedback. Please critique guys, don't hold back. Thanks brothers. =]
    Am I the only one who noticed this is first cycle ? Wait to take Winstrol in your second cycle. Testosterone should always be your only compound in your first cycle. Moreover, I don't think you will get much, if anything out of a 6 week cycle, even with a short-ester. And if you have "mid-summer" plans post cycle, that sounds like a party fiasco or vacation, where your diet will be shit, and you will lose all your gains. At the very least, wait until after your "summer plans". In addition, you will want to pick up HCG and an AI (either Aromasin or Arimidex ). As well, and possibly most important, get bloodwork and diet checked before you cycle. 200g of protein is not enough and 4 protein shakes is way to much. Ask yourself this, does a person who drinks protein shakes and eat snicker bars (for Carbs & Fat) look the same as someone who drinks 1 shake PWO, with the remainder of his/her diet being clean, whole foods ? Obviously this is an extreme example, but do yourself and your wallet a huge favor and post your diet in the diet section to see how it needs to be modified accordingly. I'd advise getting the following checked before you even touch a syringe:

    - Total Testosterone
    - Free Testosterone
    - LH
    - Estradiol

    My $0.02

  22. #22
    THE-DET-OAK is offline Banned
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    no i noticed, but i dont see a problem with an oral at the end of a first cycle, others may disagree but by the end of your cycle you will have a good understanding of how T effects your body.

    with that being said, do i think he should take winny, not unless he is close to 10%, unless its a therapeutic dose of say 10mg, that amount will lower SHBG like 40%

    I wouldnt suggest harsh orals like drol though, you want to make sure you can recover.

  23. #23
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    idk maybe
    Last edited by BlackSilver84; 05-11-2011 at 03:19 PM.

  24. #24
    Windex is online now Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSilver84 View Post
    Thanks Windex, I def appreciate your detailed response. I have a diet lined up that is definitely filled with clean whole foods as well as protein shakes, but only for occasional meal replacement. I will definitely post it in the diet section. I was just wondering, consuming 4 protein shakes as meal replacements is not something you would recommend? Also, When you say pick up HCG, what are you referring to? I have my AI, Liquid Tamox and also Liquid Clomi. Thanks again guys for all the great info guys.
    To answer your HCG Question COURTESY OF SWIFTO:

    So how important is HCG?

    When our HPTA's are "shutdown" we have to distinguish between short-term inhibtion and long-term dysfunction.

    Short-term inhibition of testosterone production comes primarily from negative feedback at the pituitary and hypothalamus, which reduces LH output. This could be described as a reduction in the signal to produce testosterone. This LH suppression recovers quickly.

    However, with time, it leads to testicular dysfunction. Without LH from the pituitary, the testes atrophy from disuse. This testicular dysfunction could be described as a reduction in the responsiveness to a signal to produce testosterone.

    The hypothalamus and pituitary seem to recover fairly quickly following the use of androgens. GnRH, LH and FSH rise fairly quickly post cycle, but endogenous testosterone levels dont. As confirmed in this review by William Llewellyn. It shows that LH levels rise fairly quickly (on the 3rd week) after Testosterone Enanthate injections of 250mg weekly for 21 weeks. So it seems the hypothalamus and pituitary are not the problem in restarting endogenous testosterone production post cycle.

    After recent correspondance with Dr.Crisler (Swale) he confirmed ganadotrophin levels were not to blame in restarting the HPTA. So what is?

    If LH levels rise post cycle (the majority of the time) the reason why endogenous testosterone levels DONT rise, is the testes. Or testicular dysfunction. Testicular dysfunction is when the testes become atrophied from disuse or desensitised to ganadotrophins, such as LH. This could also be described as being the onset of primary hypogonadism.

    Primary hypogonadism is when the testes no longer respond to LH. The testes have a lowered sperm concentration/production and endogenous testosterone level, although LH and FSH are above normal levels. This can be due to desease (Klinefelter's syndrome), over use of anabolic steroids , as described in this study or overuse of HCG. The simple answer to primary hypogonadism is HRT.

    So if the testes (testicular dysfunction) are the main culprit in restoring testosterone production post cycle how can we maintain testicular function and endogenous testosterone production even when "shutdown" using andorgens? Simple - HCG.

    HCG has the ability to maintain endogenous testosterone production and ITT (Intra-Testicular Testosterone) by stimulating the testes (directly) even when shutdown from androgens, such as Testosterone Enathate, shown in this study.

    HCG is VERY important in cycles IMHO. It prevents the main reason the HPTA doesnt recover immediately post cycle - testicular dysfunction. It should be a staple of EVERY cycle causing shutdown IMHO.

    I suggest HCG be used at 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly (as per Dr.Crisler's advice) with an AI throughout the cycle lasting 6-12 weeks. This will maintain testicular size and function and prevent testicular dysfunction. It should also be noted that administering over "500ius will cause an increase in estrogen and progesterone, further hindering recovery" - Dr.Crisler.


    For those wanting to convert their HCG doses into something more managable. Here's how:

    HCG comes in 1500ius and 5000ius amps. Usually from Pregnyl. Chinese suppliers also stock their HCG in these two denominations too.

    You need to get some sterile empty 10ML glass serum vials. You can get these from AR-R .

    You also need to get some bac. water. If you were to mix 5000ius with 10ML bac. water, 1ML = 500ius. If you were to mix 1500ius with 10ML bac. water, 1ML = 150ius.

    Once mixed, refridgerate. I tend to use my mixed HCG within 30-45 days.

  25. #25
    robofish is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK View Post
    no i noticed, but i dont see a problem with an oral at the end of a first cycle, others may disagree but by the end of your cycle you will have a good understanding of how T effects your body.

    with that being said, do i think he should take winny, not unless he is close to 10%, unless its a therapeutic dose of say 10mg, that amount will lower SHBG like 40%

    I wouldnt suggest harsh orals like drol though, you want to make sure you can recover.
    ^^^ Agree as far as an AI i didnt think about it due to the fact if im just taking test i personaly dont use one. But i shoulda suggested an ai and to atleast have one on hand. has far as HCG i use it and i would suggest it as well.

    PS. Personaly think winny is an overrated steroid . But than again i cant really say much about due to the fact i have never used it.
    Last edited by robofish; 05-03-2011 at 09:04 PM.

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    robofish is offline Associate Member
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    have u cycled befor windex? also are u really 18?

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    Windex is online now Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSilver84 View Post
    Thanks Windex, I def appreciate your detailed response. I have a diet lined up that is definitely filled with clean whole foods as well as protein shakes, but only for occasional meal replacement. I will definitely post it in the diet section. I was just wondering, consuming 4 protein shakes as meal replacements is not something you would recommend? Also, When you say pick up HCG, what are you referring to? I have my AI, Liquid Tamox and also Liquid Clomi. Thanks again guys for all the great info guys.

    To answer your question in regards to Protein Shake consumption, there are a few aspects:

    (1) Evolutionarily speaking, our bodies are not adequately adapted to digest and utilize synthetic chemicals, ergo, protein powders and other supplements. You can't grow protein powder on a farm and you certainly don't slaughter it in an assembly line. Relatively speaking, your unnecessarily taxing your body when you could just be eating chicken, fish, etc that has secondary nutritional aspects, such as vitamins, antioxidants, etc. A protein bar is just a heavily marketed candy bar. If you were to compare the ingredients of most protein bars and chocolate bars, you would see 75% of the ingredients are identical, usually differing by the addition of "whey blends" and/or more nuts/peanut butter (hence the increase in protein content). If it's not broken, don't try to fix it - that is to say, if your body functions optimally with whole foods, then there is no need to saturate your diet with protein powders, shakes, mass gainers, etc.

    (2) Psychologically speaking, people tend to feel more full via eating foods rather than drinking liquid calories. It's useful to think of your body as a house or car. You need bricks and mortar AND doors/windows to build a house, no gasoline in your car means you aren't making it far. When I first started dieting, I got sick of eating, this is coming from a person who use to demolish a Medium/Large pizza no problem. It would be like "Wow, I need to make another shake, ugh. Then I realized food is merely fuel needed to grow and continue developing.

  28. #28
    Windex is online now Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by robofish View Post
    have u cycled befor windex? also are u really 18?
    No to both questions. I just took the time to read every educational thread, twice. And I still learn things every day and probably will read each thread again and again.

  29. #29
    Windex is online now Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    To further illustrate my point about protein powders and diet, I'd read this thread:

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...r-Construction

    Possibly the most mind-blowing thread I've read yet. You will be enlightened .

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    really?
    Last edited by BlackSilver84; 05-11-2011 at 03:19 PM.

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