Please help an older guy out.

[apex87]

Gear ??

Great site; I’ve been reading posts for 5-6 weeks and though I’ve learned a lot I’m still somewhat confused on certain aspects of AAS use.

My buddy got me interested in using AAS, he’s on his 5th cycle, first 3 were just sust250 1 pin per week for 10 weeks, no PCT other than Gaspari novadex, his fourth and current cycles are sust250 2 pins per week and deca still no real PCT. I’ve encouraged him to research this site and to at least use real Nolvadex/clomid.

In any case his goals and mine are not the same. My goals are speed, strength, endurance and lean retainable mass. Total lean mass gain 10 to 12 pounds. Not looking for lots of size, just additional muscle for real use as well as vanity. And its ok if it takes couple cycles to get there, I’d rather go slowly than gain all in short time, if that is helpful. I have an active job and play sports regularly.


I’m 42 6’1” 185lbs 15-17%bf been training off and on since mid 80’s have been my current weight give or take a couple pounds for 15years. Had a physical 2 weeks ago with full blood work, excluding checking test levels. Everything is normal, BP is about 115/65, liver enzymes are all normal. Total Cholesterol is 182 HDL/LDL are both in normal range. Not sure about test level, perhaps I have some symptoms of low test however libido and Johnson works perfectly.

Ideally I’ll begin my first cycle late August or early September.

Currently I have 1 vial of sust250. It has an animal on the label that sort of resembles an elephant with a large horn. Same stuff my buddy has been using so I assume it’s real.

From research here Anavar looks appealing although I have checked price and its expensive but if that’s the best option for me then so be it.

I’d like your advice on first and second (if needed) cycles complete with what to use, how to use and full pct; keeping in mind my objectives.

Thanks to everyone

[JohnnyVegas]

I would prefer it if you didn't call yourself an "older guy"...because I am 42 as well.

Welcome to the forum.

Others can give you better advice than I can, but I will say read this if you haven't already: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e-Sustanon-250

Make sure to read the part about injection frequency.

[apex87]

JVegas, yeah sucks.... couple days ago i was talking with one of my clients, he's in his 60's and he called me an old fart... funny. I sure as heck don't consider myself to be an old fart, still look younger than my age but that damn calender doesn't lie.

I've read about sust and if i use it was thinking of 1 pin ed for first 3 days, then 1 pin eod for x days, then progress to twice per week to end of cycle. Also have heard of using a quick ester at the end of the cycle during the 21 day wait to begin PCT.

although i'm concerned if this will produce unwanted bloat/water gain.

[zaggahamma]

^^^x2

also have you browsed our hrt forum and/or considered going on trt permanently....i advise to get those missed levels checked...youre going to need them for reference either way

best of luck

[Hexagon]

I'm an "older" guy my self of 40.

I don't understand why anybody would use sustanon. It Is is a soup of different estered testosterone.
Aas works best when hormone levels are as constant/ leveled possible. To achieve with sust you need EOD not weekly injections. Sust will give you more bloat than a single estered testosterone will. The shorter ester the less bloat (and other possible sides) you will get.

Testosterone is the perfect 1st cycle. But use testosterone enanthate or (preferably) propionate. Ad an AI to your cycle. 12,5-25 mg Aromasin or 0,5 - 1 mg Arimiex ED. This will keep those pesky estrogen sides (bloat and gyno) at bay. Bloat is not only a cosmetic side, but bloat can result in (dangerously) high blood pressure.

My suggestion for 1st cylce:
8 - 15 weeks 100 mg Testosterone Propionate EOD
8 - 15 weeks 25 mg Aromasin ED
PCT:
5- 6 weeks of 20 mg Nolvadex ED

2nd cycle suggestion:
8- 15 Weeks: 100 mg Testosterone Propionate EOD
8- 15 Weeks: 100 mg NPP EOD
8- 15 Weeks: 25 mg Aromasin ED
8- 15 Weeks: 200 - 250 IU HCG EOD
PCT:
5- 6 weeks of 20 mg Nolvadex ED

[MR10X]

Being your first cycle you wont need much to see good results,less would be better and would let you see how your body reacts to AAS. 400 to 500mg of test E a week and a little EQ 200 to 300mg a week would be a really good cycle with minimal side effects. My son does Jui-Jitsu and i had him on test and eq and it worked reslly well for him,we train bodybuilding so he can put on some size.My first cycle was HCG and Anavar for 8 weeks and i got some reasonable results. You have to realize you wont keep all your gains when your off AAS,you wont have the same muscle fullness like you will when your on them.I dont do orals,they are hard on your liver and not worth the risk when there is so many injectable availble that are as good or better than orals. Personally i never saw much improvemnt over 8 weeks to make it benificial,unless you just want to look good for another month.I did my first clcle when i was 34 years old,i am 65 now have no issues from reasonable doses i used.

[apex87]

@jpkman. I'll look in the HRT/TRT section. While i agree it's not a bad idea to know current test levels, and i'll look for a good online lab; I also think no matter where your pre cycle test levels are once you use AAS your levels will be out of wack. Best we can do is follow dosing, time on, and PCT protocols and afterward, our test levels will reset to their nornmal point, however they might not and that's a risk we have to be ready to accept. Is my thinking on base here?

@Hexagon. thanks for the your detailed recommended cycles. I got the sust250 from my buddy couple months ago and was just going to begin using following his advice, however I knew just enough to know i should know more. So I began researching and found this site, after couple days here i learned sust is not ideal and i'll probably sell/trade the sust for a more suitable test.

When your cycles say 8-15 weeks, does that mean run from 8 to 15 weeks? i assume so but want to clarify. Certainly there are variying views in regard to length of cycle. Also have you ran either of the cycles you suggest, if so how'd it go?

@ MR10X. I'm a little confused by a couple of your comments, you say your first cycle was Anavar but later you say you don't use orals, is there an injectable version of Anavar? In your your 31 years of using AAS how many cycles have you ran? are you on HRT/TRT ?

thanks.

any others care to share thier knowledge?

[Hexagon]

Being your first cycle you wont need much to see good results,less would be better and would let you see how your body reacts to AAS. 400 to 500mg of test E a week and a little EQ 200 to 300mg a week would be a really good cycle with minimal side effects. My son does Jui-Jitsu and i had him on test and eq and it worked reslly well for him,we train bodybuilding so he can put on some size.My first cycle was HCG and Anavar for 8 weeks and i got some reasonable results. You have to realize you wont keep all your gains when your off AAS,you wont have the same muscle fullness like you will when your on them.I dont do orals,they are hard on your liver and not worth the risk when there is so many injectable availble that are as good or better than orals. Personally i never saw much improvemnt over 8 weeks to make it benificial,unless you just want to look good for another month.I did my first clcle when i was 34 years old,i am 65 now have no issues from reasonable doses i used.

You don't do orals, yet your first cycle was anavar :P

For every pound of muscle you put on, you need to eat approx 100 calories more every day to keep (during and after cycle)

What most builders tend to forget is that muscle building is function of time. The longer you are at it the better the results. The same is for steroids. The longer the cycle the better the results, but the longer your cycle is the worse can the sides become.

EQ is a excellent steroid, but I would never use less than 400 mg a week. EQ is a very slow acting steroid, and you will not feel the effect of EQ before 7-9 weeks into your cycle. I would not consider a cycle with EQ of less than 15 weeks.

After a cycle of EQ or Deca I always have a 6 weeks cycle with an oral (winny or tbol) after my last injection and before I start my PCT. The slow acting esters undecylenate and decanoate will need aprox 6 weeks to be cleared from the body. There is very little to be gained by starting PCT earlier then this.

The effect of orals on the liver is somewhat exaggerated. A healthy liver can take quite a beating and recover within weeks. But orals should be used in moderation, not to high dosages and not for much more 8 weeks.

[MR10X]

@jpkman. I'll look in the HRT/TRT section. While i agree it's not a bad idea to know current test levels, and i'll look for a good online lab; I also think no matter where your pre cycle test levels are once you use AAS your levels will be out of wack. Best we can do is follow dosing, time on, and PCT protocols and afterward, our test levels will reset to their nornmal point, however they might not and that's a risk we have to be ready to accept. Is my thinking on base here?

@Hexagon. thanks for the your detailed recommended cycles. I got the sust250 from my buddy couple months ago and was just going to begin using following his advice, however I knew just enough to know i should know more. So I began researching and found this site, after couple days here i learned sust is not ideal and i'll probably sell/trade the sust for a more suitable test.

When your cycles say 8-15 weeks, does that mean run from 8 to 15 weeks? i assume so but want to clarify. Certainly there are variying views in regard to length of cycle. Also have you ran either of the cycles you suggest, if so how'd it go?

@ MR10X. I'm a little confused by a couple of your comments, you say your first cycle was Anavar but later you say you don't use orals, is there an injectable version of Anavar? In your your 31 years of using AAS how many cycles have you ran? are you on HRT/TRT ?

thanks.

any others care to share thier knowledge?

I used orals for a couple of years,but not high doses like people use now.i had hepatitus when i was in my early 20's and was worried about my liver. I have ran over 30 cycles . i am not on any HRT or TRT,i recover ok on shorter cycles like 8 weeks but for longer cycles i use HCg and Nolvadex.

[Hexagon]

@Hexagon. thanks for the your detailed recommended cycles. I got the sust250 from my buddy couple months ago and was just going to begin using following his advice, however I knew just enough to know i should know more. So I began researching and found this site, after couple days here i learned sust is not ideal and i'll probably sell/trade the sust for a more suitable test.

When your cycles say 8-15 weeks, does that mean run from 8 to 15 weeks? i assume so but want to clarify. Certainly there are variying views in regard to length of cycle. Also have you ran either of the cycles you suggest, if so how'd it go?

8-15 weeks is the suggested duration of the cycle. I have done the cycles I mentioned and many many more

You can not go wrong with testosterone. Even if you don't have your diet 100% down, you will still have great results. You could easily gain 6-12 kg (13 - 26 pounds) muscle. I actually did the latter of the to cycles last fall (test + NPP). My bodyweight went from 103 kg to 115 kg. I got a new personal best in bench press 200 kg (up 20 kg)

[apex87]

Hexagon and MR10X, thanks for all your assistance, it's nice getting help from mature and experienced users. EQ is Equipoise? i read the description on it and certainly seems to be a worthwhile compound, you'd think it would be more talked about on here. What is NPP?

After getting your help really appears to be a simple and straight forward way to go about my first cycle, get some test E or P an AI and nolv for pct. I'm thinking to start with a shorter run of 8-9 weeks to see how i respond to using goes. If i'm able to retain net a 8-12 pounds post pct i will consider that successful, then another run of similar results. I'm not concerned with adding and keeping anymore more size than that amount, then i'll do my best to maintain the gain and focus on strength, speed, endurance.

Perhaps i'm overly concerned about possible negative sides of using on endurance, i read about Tren being adverse in this way. How's is physical endurance impacted by just Test?

[Hexagon]

EQ is Equipose.
NPP is Nandrolone PhenylPropionate. It is a faster Deca (Nandrolone decanoate)

Cardio activity is always exhausting when on steroids. When on test it is the effect of getting heavier and heavier that has the most impact on endurance. But normally you will have some temporary increase in cholesterol while on your cycle. This isn't good for you physical endurance.

Tren, deca/ npp will cause a temporary narrowing/ tightening of your bronchi. It is like working out with a snorkel (without the positive effects)

[apex87]

I was thinking the weight gain could hamper endurance, but had no idea that Tren, deca/NPP constricted bronchi, for my goals i'll be staying clear of those compounds. For now and hopefully a few more years i'll continue playing endurance intense sports.

Do you have a preference in AI? Are my thoughts on track about getting pre cycle test levels tested?

Reading about Test e and Test P. I noticed if using Prop a test, test can be passed in as short as 36 hours after use. There is a very very slim chance i would be tested for AAS around the time i plan to cycle.

[MR10X]

For what you want to do i suggested a little EQ because it does things for your blood which helps endurance more so than just Test. Just test is great for building size.Test P will take probably a week to get out of your system depending on your metabolism,approxamate half life is about 3 days...It would also depend on how much you used.Bodybuilders like Decca because they get bloated and think its muscle,i think Decca is highly overrated.

[Hexagon]

Prop has a detection time of approx 3 weeks (read the profile )

EQ do increase the amount of red blood cells (Hemoglobin), but there is actually no documentation that the effect from EQ has any effect on endurance. Testosterone will also increase red blood cells, but not as much as EQ.

[apex87]

In regard to endurance as it relates to using AAS, so long as my selected compounds do not take away from training/playing i'm not much concerned with the compounds aiding endurance, but if that happens all the better.

Both of you sound reasonable in all your remarks. I will keep everything simple first time through Test Prop, AI, and PCT. If all goes as expected later I can begin to add items like EQ.

Is there a lower cost option to Anavar. Safe and effective as strength/cut type agent?

Any comments on Torem as part of the PCT?

[zaggahamma]

@jpkman. I'll look in the HRT/TRT section. While i agree it's not a bad idea to know current test levels, and i'll look for a good online lab; I also think no matter where your pre cycle test levels are once you use AAS your levels will be out of wack. Best we can do is follow dosing, time on, and PCT protocols and afterward, our test levels will reset to their nornmal point, however they might not and that's a risk we have to be ready to accept. Is my thinking on base here?

@Hexagon. thanks for the your detailed recommended cycles. I got the sust250 from my buddy couple months ago and was just going to begin using following his advice, however I knew just enough to know i should know more. So I began researching and found this site, after couple days here i learned sust is not ideal and i'll probably sell/trade the sust for a more suitable test.

When your cycles say 8-15 weeks, does that mean run from 8 to 15 weeks? i assume so but want to clarify. Certainly there are variying views in regard to length of cycle. Also have you ran either of the cycles you suggest, if so how'd it go?

@ MR10X. I'm a little confused by a couple of your comments, you say your first cycle was Anavar but later you say you don't use orals, is there an injectable version of Anavar? In your your 31 years of using AAS how many cycles have you ran? are you on HRT/TRT ?

thanks.

any others care to share thier knowledge?

answer to bold...yes...but at age 42 i recommend looking at those levels and possibly going on trt and therefore no need for pct...after your cycle(blast) you would just assume your trt doses

[apex87]

I see your reasoning. What are the pros and cons of being on TRT for remainder of life? excluding being on TRT cost money.

If its simply a matter of running a PCT versus not, then i'm not much interested to go on TRT at this stage of life.

[zaggahamma]

I see your reasoning. What are the pros and cons of being on TRT for remainder of life? excluding being on TRT cost money.

If its simply a matter of running a PCT versus not, then i'm not much interested to go on TRT at this stage of life.

unless your running optimal hormone levels already then trt offers zero cons

[MR10X]

I see your reasoning. What are the pros and cons of being on TRT for remainder of life? excluding being on TRT cost money.

If its simply a matter of running a PCT versus not, then i'm not much interested to go on TRT at this stage of life.

Thats good thinking,i am 65 and not on TRT and been using AAS since 1980. Dont go on TRT unless you have to. Not Having optmal natural levels is not going to keep you from maintaining or gaining.Would 50mg of extra test a week make that much of adifference.....

[zaggahamma]

Thats good thinking,i am 65 and not on TRT and been using AAS since 1980. Dont go on TRT unless you have to. Not Having optmal natural levels is not going to keep you from maintaining or gaining.Would 50mg of extra test a week make that much of adifference.....

interesting..how often do you cycle and how do u feel in between...i have a feeling you're going to say swell

[Bonaparte]

EQ is Equipose.
NPP is Nandrolone PhenylPropionate. It is a faster Deca (Nandrolone decanoate)

Cardio activity is always exhausting when on steroids. When on test it is the effect of getting heavier and heavier that has the most impact on endurance. But normally you will have some temporary increase in cholesterol while on your cycle. This isn't good for you physical endurance.

Tren, deca/ npp will cause a temporary narrowing/ tightening of your bronchi. It is like working out with a snorkel (without the positive effects)

Tren, yes. But nandrolone has no such effect on bronchioconstriction.

And EQ certainly helps with cardio endurance.

[MR10X]

interesting..how often do you cycle and how do u feel in between...i have a feeling you're going to say swell

The thing is there will be times when you dont train for whatever reason,i trained hard for 5 years cycling and training to get bigger. Alot of time after that i trained just stay in decent shape but didnt use AAS except once year. I never had a problem sexually when i was off steroids,it wasnt like being on them but no problems at all. I just started back seriously a couple of years ago and i am in as good shape as i was when i was in my 30's.I dont look 65 at all, I date girls in their 30's and 40's but i tell them im only 50 and they dont care or question it.i have some injuries that bother me some,but they accumalate over time.In the last 3 years i have done 2 or 3 cycles a year .My latest cycle is 600mg test E,600mg EQ,and 400mg Tren A a week.I cycle my training with my steroids,i train hard for 8 or 12 weeks then take at least a week off then start back training easy for a few months then work back up to my peak training and start another cycle. I dont know if the test and Eq has helped me stay younger looking or not,it is probably a lot genetics but i dont have any wrinkles and my skin looks like a 30 year old,but i do have gray hair which the younger chics really like.I havnt used a lot of recreational drugs and dont drink much and dont smoke.What you do early in life can come back to haunt you later.

[zaggahamma]

The thing is there will be times when you dont train for whatever reason,i trained hard for 5 years cycling and training to get bigger. Alot of time after that i trained just stay in decent shape but didnt use AAS except once year. I never had a problem sexually when i was off steroids,it wasnt like being on them but no problems at all. I just started back seriously a couple of years ago and i am in as good shape as i was when i was in my 30's.I dont look 65 at all, I date girls in their 30's and 40's but i tell them im only 50 and they dont care or question it.i have some injuries that bother me some,but they accumalate over time.In the last 3 years i have done 2 or 3 cycles a year .My latest cycle is 600mg test E,600mg EQ,and 400mg Tren A a week.I cycle my training with my steroids,i train hard for 8 or 12 weeks then take at least a week off then start back training easy for a few months then work back up to my peak training and start another cycle. I dont know if the test and Eq has helped me stay younger looking or not,it is probably a lot genetics but i dont have any wrinkles and my skin looks like a 30 year old,but i do have gray hair which the younger chics really like.I havnt used a lot of recreational drugs and dont drink much and dont smoke.What you do early in life can come back to haunt you later.

very good points and i second the moderate drinking and the not smoking ewwwwww.....

yes, if symptoms arent present more power to you staying natty in between cycles

[apex87]

great advice from everyone

[apex87]

Checked with my source on getting Test P, he's only able to get Test E at a buck forty for a vial of 250mg per cc. Is this a reasonable amount?

[zaggahamma]

Checked with my source on getting Test P, he's only able to get Test E at a buck forty for a vial of 250mg per cc. Is this a reasonable amount?

yuppers

[apex87]

thanks.

maybe this is a bad idea but is there a smart way to use both sust and test at the same time in a cycle. I have this one vial of sust already, and i removed the foil cover, never perced the rubber stopper and i'm concerned i won't be able to sell it this way.

so instead of the sust going to waste thought i'd ask if coulde be used in conjuction with the Test E

[zaggahamma]

i dont see why not but no experience with sust...your gonna do it either way arent you

[kelkel]

Damn funny jpkman

[Bullseye Forever]

Gear ??

Great site; I’ve been reading posts for 5-6 weeks and though I’ve learned a lot I’m still somewhat confused on certain aspects of AAS use.

My buddy got me interested in using AAS, he’s on his 5th cycle, first 3 were just sust250 1 pin per week for 10 weeks, no PCT other than Gaspari novadex, his fourth and current cycles are sust250 2 pins per week and deca still no real PCT. I’ve encouraged him to research this site and to at least use real Nolvadex/clomid.

In any case his goals and mine are not the same. My goals are speed, strength, endurance and lean retainable mass. Total lean mass gain 10 to 12 pounds. Not looking for lots of size, just additional muscle for real use as well as vanity. And its ok if it takes couple cycles to get there, I’d rather go slowly than gain all in short time, if that is helpful. I have an active job and play sports regularly.


I’m 42 6’1” 185lbs 15-17%bf been training off and on since mid 80’s have been my current weight give or take a couple pounds for 15years. Had a physical 2 weeks ago with full blood work, excluding checking test levels. Everything is normal, BP is about 115/65, liver enzymes are all normal. Total Cholesterol is 182 HDL/LDL are both in normal range. Not sure about test level, perhaps I have some symptoms of low test however libido and Johnson works perfectly.

Ideally I’ll begin my first cycle late August or early September.

Currently I have 1 vial of sust250. It has an animal on the label that sort of resembles an elephant with a large horn. Same stuff my buddy has been using so I assume it’s real.

From research here Anavar looks appealing although I have checked price and its expensive but if that’s the best option for me then so be it.

I’d like your advice on first and second (if needed) cycles complete with what to use, how to use and full pct; keeping in mind my objectives.

Thanks to everyone

you are not ol my brother lol,im 45,and just fixin to do my 3rd cycle ever in my life,im on lifetime trt,and my dose is 300mg/week,and have been for over a year now,but been on trt for 4 years,my 1st 2 cycles was test cyp 500mg/week only and my 2nd cycle was test cyp 600mg/week only,got some good gains and worked well for me,right now im at 270lb 18-19%BF and 6'5" tall...this cycle i will be using this time is test cyp 750mg/week deca 400mg/week and dbol 50mg ed/6 weeks you are in good health and see no reason you wont get some good gains if you decise to do a cycle,but i would just do a test only cycle for my first one,just my opinion though

[MR10X]

thanks.

maybe this is a bad idea but is there a smart way to use both sust and test at the same time in a cycle. I have this one vial of sust already, and i removed the foil cover, never perced the rubber stopper and i'm concerned i won't be able to sell it this way.

so instead of the sust going to waste thought i'd ask if coulde be used in conjuction with the Test E

The fastest release test in Sus has an approximate 3 day half life,so shooting it every three days will give you a good blood level and it will get in your system faster than the E will, and you will need less mg than E to get the same level.i am assuming its 250mg/ml which is the most common,250mg of SUS has more test in it than test E because of the ester weight.

[apex87]

Yeah that's funny... nice. but no i'm not like some of these pig headed or clouded thinking kids on here. Sure i'd rather not toss a buck fifty in the garbage but if it can't be incorporated smartly with the Test E then thats the price of a lesson learned.

Maybe my source will try to get Test P, but for now i have the sust and he can get Test E.


Bullseye, thanks for your advice, yeah test only for first time. The guys helping in this post steered me right.

[Bonaparte]

1) you cannot discuss prices here.
2) you're getting ripped off.
3) Any esters of test can be combined in a cycle if you know what you're doing (and don't overthink things).

[apex87]

1) got it.
2) good to know.
3) in my situation what would be the best way to use sust and test E at the same time? Trying not to over think all this, but trying to have a fuller understanding.

thanks

[Bonaparte]

You could just run the sust till you run out, then switch to Test E. PCT would start 2 weeks after your last shot. Don't overthink the blood level/ester issue. You won't notice the switch.

[apex87]

Appreciate your advice. Would it be best to run sust followed by the test E once every third day, or some other interval? Perhaps i am overthinking all this.

I just want to keep it simple, effective, and minimize or eliminate sides with accessory compounds.

[Bullseye Forever]

Yeah that's funny... nice. but no i'm not like some of these pig headed or clouded thinking kids on here. Sure i'd rather not toss a buck fifty in the garbage but if it can't be incorporated smartly with the Test E then thats the price of a lesson learned.

Maybe my source will try to get Test P, but for now i have the sust and he can get Test E.


Bullseye, thanks for your advice, yeah test only for first time. The guys helping in this post steered me right.

good luck my friend

[apex87]

Here is what i have so far.

For an AI and Nolva could anyone recommend what i should get from AR-R? my buddies source is getting flaky and i'd rather not continue this avenue.

Also, some recommend HCG, should i get it and use it or only use it if sides happen?

looking to move my start date to late July early August.

[Noles12]

I hope you werent planning on using those pins for your IM injections. They wont work well for that.

They can be used for the HCG but you need different pins for your test