pH or test e. which is safer?

**armon91** · 05-19-2011, 12:42 AM

Ok guys i'm 20 years old but please don't flame me or say im too young bla bla.

I know what im doing, ive spent a while researching, and know how to do everything properly including nutrition and pct.

I'm just wondering from my research people say that.

test e cycle would be best for a first cycle, while it hurts your endocrine system

but

pH's are oral and so they hurt your liver

Does anyone know which would be be better and safer for someone my age?

Thannk you

**Dr Pepper** · 05-19-2011, 12:50 AM

A good diet would be good for someone your age... No aas, your too young... You say you've researched?

Cab u tell me the effects of steriod use on someone that's your age?

**THE-DET-OAK** · 05-19-2011, 12:51 AM

ph hurts your endocrine too

**cyounger100** · 05-19-2011, 08:52 AM

well ur too young bla bla bla

**gymfu** · 05-19-2011, 09:03 AM

Do yourself and favor and read this post in this same forum.
"Hey everyone just need some insight on my recovery. Feeling like crap mentally"

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-crap-mentally

here is the link

**armon91** · 05-19-2011, 10:50 AM

so which would be safer... im assuming a properly done test E cycle?

**Mogamedogz** · 05-19-2011, 10:54 AM

Eating right is the safest. You are TOO ****ING YOUNG (in case the other guys weren't clear enough).

**brad1986** · 05-19-2011, 10:54 AM

If you really did the research you say you did then you should know what everybody was going to say to you. and you would also know that its not the knowlege of pct and doing it "right" that is the reason younger people shouldnt use them. Its their still develping endocrine system. So it seems as no you have not done enough research at all

**sdmlsu1** · 05-19-2011, 10:55 AM

Test E

**sdmlsu1** · 05-19-2011, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

A good diet would be good for someone your age... No aas, your too young... You say you've researched?

Cab u tell me the effects of steriod use on someone that's your age?

Enlighten me, I started earlier than 20 I want to see which effects I suffer/suffered from?

**armon91** · 05-19-2011, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by sdmlsu1

Enlighten me, I started earlier than 20 I want to see which effects I suffer/suffered from?

Thank you. What all did you do?

**gymfu** · 05-19-2011, 11:04 AM

I guess you didn't bother to read the link I sent you?

**armon91** · 05-19-2011, 11:09 AM

yea but he had done a couple of (uneducated)cycles before and im assuming with no pct and not having done the right research on how to (as in proper nutrtition, pct, etc) not age. I know all that.

**sdmlsu1** · 05-19-2011, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by armon91

Thank you. What all did you do?

I'm not going to go into detail, I've done a lot of shit over the years especially since I'm 37 now. I personally would run a 12 wk Test E cycle at 500mg/wk followed by a simple Nolva/Clomid PCT any day over PHs. You get much better results with way less side effects. I'm sure there are some mild PHs out there but the ones that do anything are very harsh, many are off the market. JMO I would stay away from PHs. Also when I started I hung out and worked out with some state and npc guys.I had 2-3yrs of hard training under me, them holding my hand and I knew how to eat. I didn't just try anything and everything I could find.

**gymfu** · 05-19-2011, 11:26 AM

It is a gamble, you could end up with a real screwed up system when you get older. I ask this in vain, why not just wait?

**THE-DET-OAK** · 05-19-2011, 01:37 PM

This guy jumped off a building and lived, I think im gonna try it.

**Mass EffecT** · 05-19-2011, 03:05 PM

If you have a choice, I would pass on Test E, Just go for some Test P. Much better quality, more effective, results will come on faster, and with a proper PCT you will keep more of your gains from the P as a pose to the E. Also, the E will make you look more bloated, where as the P will def give you strength and size, but it will see more a vascular looks with additional striations. You can run the P alone, which would definitely be the recommendation since its your first. PH's are going to kill your liver. Just opt for the better quality dude, I would def say NO to PH's. It also depends on what type of PH's you are talking about, Methyal 1 Test is a lot different 1 AD, as well as alot more potent, and side effect prone. Your too young be screwing with that shit. Next thing you will know, you will be ready to bang some chick, and your downstairs will be dead.

**Bonaparte** · 05-19-2011, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Mass EffecT

If you have a choice, I would pass on Test E, Just go for some Test P. Much better quality, more effective, results will come on faster, and with a proper PCT you will keep more of your gains from the P as a pose to the E. Also, the E will make you look more bloated, where as the P will def give you strength and size, but it will see more a vascular looks with additional striations. You can run the P alone, which would definitely be the recommendation since its your first. PH's are going to kill your liver. Just opt for the better quality dude, I would def say NO to PH's. It also depends on what type of PH's you are talking about, Methyal 1 Test is a lot different 1 AD, as well as alot more potent, and side effect prone. Your too young be screwing with that shit. Next thing you will know, you will be ready to bang some chick, and your downstairs will be dead.

Again, enough with this garbage. There is no "quality" difference between one form of test and the other. You really need to educate yourself (and actually use these compounds) before spouting off a load of crap and confusing other newbies.

**Mass EffecT** · 05-19-2011, 04:00 PM

I am not trying to confuse anyone, just putting in my two cents. I never said Test E was bad, or horrible for you, or anything like that. All I stated, was that in my opinion.... "opinion, that's it".....Test P is a more effective form of Test. If I am totally wrong on that statement, than shoot me....I was not trying to mislead anyone. I apologize if I did, just giving my 2 cents...thats all....also, I do educate myself, so I don't think that education on the matter is the issue, I just think its opinion who would would rather use what.

**Bonaparte** · 05-19-2011, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Mass EffecT

I am not trying to confuse anyone, just putting in my two cents. I never said Test E was bad, or horrible for you, or anything like that. All I stated, was that in my opinion.... "opinion, that's it".....Test P is a more effective form of Test. If I am totally wrong on that statement, than shoot me....I was not trying to mislead anyone. I apologize if I did, just giving my 2 cents...thats all....also, I do educate myself, so I don't think that education on the matter is the issue, I just think its opinion who would would rather use what.

IDK if I can fit a trip to Switzerland in my schedule anytime soon...
Besides, I doubt they would let me bring my 12 gauge

**Ashop** · 05-19-2011, 05:45 PM

DIET,,TRAINING,,DEDICATION and REST and you will grow like a weed!!!!
Use your own natural hormones right now while the are high on their own.

**Mass EffecT** · 05-19-2011, 05:51 PM

agreed

**slimshady01** · 05-19-2011, 06:02 PM

My buddy did a cycle at 20 and ever since he hasnt been able to get a hard on. He is 33 now and been having to pop viagras for years. What sucks is he would have to pop one if he thought he was about to get laid, and do so about an hour before it happend. I rememeber one time he took it but the broad was rdy like 10 min later, he kept having to make up bullshit to let his viag kick in. She finally got pissed off thinking he didnt like her so she left. Well he had a nice hard on 30 min later that he at least could stroke out alone.

If you want to take the chance and deal with all that then go for it bud. Or you can be a mature adult and listen to the people here that know what they are talking about.

**sdmlsu1** · 05-19-2011, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by slimshady01

My buddy did a cycle at 20 and ever since he hasnt been able to get a hard on. He is 33 now and been having to pop viagras for years. What sucks is he would have to pop one if he thought he was about to get laid, and do so about an hour before it happend. I rememeber one time he took it but the broad was rdy like 10 min later, he kept having to make up bullshit to let his viag kick in. She finally got pissed off thinking he didnt like her so she left. Well he had a nice hard on 30 min later that he at least could stroke out alone.

If you want to take the chance and deal with all that then go for it bud. Or you can be a mature adult and listen to the people here that know what they are talking about.

Your friend either had no clue what he was doing or his natural HPTA was ****ed to begin with. You run 1 Test E/C 12 wk cycle at 20 and do no pct you will not **** up your HPTA for the rest of your life to the point you can't get it up. You will feel shitty for a while and will most likely never bounce back to the T levels you had before but your body will rebound eventually. I DO NOT EVER ADVISE NO PCT UNLESS YOU CRUISE BUT I CALL BS ON THIS.

**Honkey_Kong** · 05-19-2011, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by sdmlsu1

Your friend either had no clue what he was doing or his natural HPTA was ****ed to begin with. You run 1 Test E/C 12 wk cycle at 20 and do no pct you will not **** up your HPTA for the rest of your life to the point you can't get it up. You will feel shitty for a while and will most likely never bounce back to the T levels you had before but your body will rebound eventually. I DO NOT EVER ADVISE NO PCT UNLESS YOU CRUISE BUT I CALL BS ON THIS.

sdmlsu1, you should read more of the threads on here. You'll see scores of idiot kids who damaged their endocrine systems from their early use of steroids .

**sdmlsu1** · 05-19-2011, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

sdmlsu1, you should read more of the threads on here. You'll see scores of idiot kids who damaged their endocrine systems from their early use of steroids.

While I appreciate the offer in roughly 30yrs of running cycles ( actually at 33 I went on HRT, necessary evil when you run so many cycles) I base my opinion on what I've witnessed personally. I'll agree to disagree and I'm not a reckless person but to tell people across the board to wait until your 25 like I see in many threads is silly. It can be done much sooner if done properly with the right knowledge. Maybe I just know a lot of lucky people IDK. If a person has the genetics and aspirations of chasing the pro dream and you wait until your 25 your going to miss a prime window in your life. I just don't believe int telling a guy he shouldn't do this or that unless he is a minor. Once their mind is made up they will do it anyway so I would rather give them sound advice. JMO

**Mass EffecT** · 05-19-2011, 11:28 PM

All the people I know who messed killed there sex drive/ dick was due to pro-hormones like M1T, 1AD, etc. ...this stuff ****ed up there dicks for good...not saying they couldn't get a hard on, but they definitely dropped really low and never, NEVER got back to where they used to be. I am talking about guys who were in there early 20's. I would rather look normal, and not have any muscle definition, then looked jacked out of my mind, but no be able to get a boner at 25. I think most guys would agree with me on that. Your right, why miss prime years of your life, worried about whether or not you will be able to get a hard on or not. DONT **** W ITH PRO-HORMONES

**sdmlsu1** · 05-19-2011, 11:46 PM

Well I would still worry about getting it up.LOL I'm just saying done properly its not going to hurt you. I should mention make sure everything you use is 100% legit.

**Honkey_Kong** · 05-19-2011, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by sdmlsu1

While I appreciate the offer in roughly 30yrs of running cycles ( actually at 33 I went on HRT, necessary evil when you run so many cycles) I base my opinion on what I've witnessed personally. I'll agree to disagree and I'm not a reckless person but to tell people across the board to wait until your 25 like I see in many threads is silly. It can be done much sooner if done properly with the right knowledge. Maybe I just know a lot of lucky people IDK. If a person has the genetics and aspirations of chasing the pro dream and you wait until your 25 your going to miss a prime window in your life. I just don't believe int telling a guy he shouldn't do this or that unless he is a minor. Once their mind is made up they will do it anyway so I would rather give them sound advice. JMO

I think the decision to use steroids (or any drug) should be done on a benefit:risk ratio. That is you have to weigh the risks to the benefits. Somebody under 25 does have a higher risk of damaging their HPTA, since their endocrine system is still developing. So to the average young user, the benefit of extra mass and strength is even more outweighed by the risk of more bodily damage.

I'm not taking in to account an athlete on the verge of a pro-dream. As I think that should be saved for a different conversation.

**Honkey_Kong** · 05-19-2011, 11:52 PM

.....

**sdmlsu1** · 05-20-2011, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

I think the decision to use steroids (or any drug) should be done on a benefit:risk ratio. That is you have to weigh the risks to the benefits. Somebody under 25 does have a higher risk of damaging their HPTA, since their endocrine system is still developing. So to the average young user, the benefit of extra mass and strength is even more outweighed by the risk of more bodily damage.

I'm not taking in to account an athlete on the verge of a pro-dream. As I think that should be saved for a different conversation.

Agreed but an aspiring pro isn't going to weight until he's 25 to start using. Now if you have the genetics to even chase the dream you'll know off of diet and training. I'm done, we've all made our opinions known. There isn't anything wrong with disagreeing in a civilized manor and obviously my stance is known. lol

**Honkey_Kong** · 05-20-2011, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by sdmlsu1

Agreed but an aspiring pro isn't going to weight until he's 25 to start using. Now if you have the genetics to even chase the dream you'll know off of diet and training. I'm done, we've all made our opinions known. There isn't anything wrong with disagreeing in a civilized manor and obviously my stance is known. lol

I'm not even taking the pro in to account, since it's a different discussion. And let's be honest here, almost all of the kids who post on here looking to do their first cycle aren't on the verge of being the top of any sport. They're just kids who are either way too small looking for a short-cut or they're regular young gym rats looking to get big to impress people.

**brad1986** · 05-20-2011, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK

This guy jumped off a building and lived, I think im gonna try it.

perfect analogy. Young kids never have a valid argument when it comes to shutting down un undevelped endocrine systeem. Just because your friend can get a boner now doesnt mean you will. and doesnt mean he will 10 years from now. Muscles a couple years ealier...or... ability to achieve boners for life?? hmmmm.... Seems like a no brainer

**brad1986** · 05-20-2011, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by slimshady01

My buddy did a cycle at 20 and ever since he hasnt been able to get a hard on. He is 33 now and been having to pop viagras for years. What sucks is he would have to pop one if he thought he was about to get laid, and do so about an hour before it happend. I rememeber one time he took it but the broad was rdy like 10 min later, he kept having to make up bullshit to let his viag kick in. She finally got pissed off thinking he didnt like her so she left. Well he had a nice hard on 30 min later that he at least could stroke out alone.

If you want to take the chance and deal with all that then go for it bud. Or you can be a mature adult and listen to the people here that know what they are talking about.

haha wow were not friends but it sounds like your talking about me. Ph's at age 21 did that to me too. A regretable decision i can never take back. Having unrelable boners in your 20's is the worst thing possible and no amount of muclse can bring that confidence back up

**brad1986** · 05-20-2011, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by sdmlsu1

While I appreciate the offer in roughly 30yrs of running cycles ( actually at 33 I went on HRT, necessary evil when you run so many cycles) I base my opinion on what I've witnessed personally. I'll agree to disagree and I'm not a reckless person but to tell people across the board to wait until your 25 like I see in many threads is silly. It can be done much sooner if done properly with the right knowledge. Maybe I just know a lot of lucky people IDK. If a person has the genetics and aspirations of chasing the pro dream and you wait until your 25 your going to miss a prime window in your life. I just don't believe int telling a guy he shouldn't do this or that unless he is a minor. Once their mind is made up they will do it anyway so I would rather give them sound advice. JMO

I think this is irresponible advise and it discredits everything that all the vets and mods have been trying to ingrain in young kids heads. Your stepping on alot of toes and not helping anybody with this advise, common sense should tell you that shutting down an undevelpoed system can have lasting consequences. Ive seen it first hand and experienced it first hand. Remember newbies for every one guy that sais this theres 100 that say the opposite

**armon91** · 05-20-2011, 04:31 PM

So doing the cycle cycle correctly, may also bring my test levels back to normal when im done with the cycle right, right? i thought your body was could recover back to its normal test levels if everything was done properly..

**JohnnyVegas** · 05-20-2011, 05:31 PM

In order to promote a more responsible use of these drugs, the people that run this place have set 25 as an age that they feel (in my view) helps insure less impulsive decisions, more time in the gym, more time learning about these compounds and, in my opinion, just making sure these people are actually on the path of adulthood. To start giving advice to 20 year olds that are too damn lazy (NOT specifically talking about the OP) to use the search function to find the million threads about starter cycles and pro hormones, is a bad choice.

sdmlsu1, you seem to have a lot of experience. However, seeing someone with a double-digit post count giving advice to someone with a single-digit post count is always going to send up red flags to members that have been active members of this community.

You will notice that you are the only person giving advice in a sea of people telling the OP to wait. If the OP has any problems you will be personally responsible. Others here don't want to take that chance, especially when he could be 6' and 140 pounds with no experience with diet and lifting.

**sdmlsu1** · 05-20-2011, 06:51 PM

Post count means nothing. Okay OP don't do AAS until 25 but you can enlist in the military and take a bullet at 18. I wonder which one will effect your HPTA worse? LOL If you really think telling someone thats has his mind made up to take AAS is going to wait 5yrs your crazy. It is what it is and I would much rather tell someone how to do it properly.

**PK-V** · 05-20-2011, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by slimshady01

My buddy did a cycle at 20 and ever since he hasnt been able to get a hard on. He is 33 now and been having to pop viagras for years. What sucks is he would have to pop one if he thought he was about to get laid, and do so about an hour before it happend. I rememeber one time he took it but the broad was rdy like 10 min later, he kept having to make up bullshit to let his viag kick in. She finally got pissed off thinking he didnt like her so she left. Well he had a nice hard on 30 min later that he at least could stroke out alone.

If you want to take the chance and deal with all that then go for it bud. Or you can be a mature adult and listen to the people here that know what they are talking about.

He should have just ate her out until the timber hardened

**slimshady01** · 05-20-2011, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by sdmlsu1

Post count means nothing. Okay OP don't do AAS until 25 but you can enlist in the military and take a bullet at 18. I wonder which one will effect your HPTA worse? LOL If you really think telling someone thats has his mind made up to take AAS is going to wait 5yrs your crazy. It is what it is and I would much rather tell someone how to do it properly.

Damn i waited till i was 34 with 3 kids. Wanted to do in early 20s but was to nervous of scewing things up for down the road.