What would happen? should i do it?

**spot215** · 05-27-2011, 10:56 AM

iiight, soo, iv been lifting for about 3 months.
i am 22 yrs old
5'11"
180 lbs 20% bf

i still havnt made all the gains that i can naturally.
but i want results NOW! lol
i bought some test propionate and its been sitting around(i have the hook up)
thats why i didnt hesitate buying it.
is it wayyy to early for me to start with this stuff, or will it help me out allot?

**Bonaparte** · 05-27-2011, 10:59 AM

The 20% BF is my main concern...a lot of room for improvement there.

**38jumper38** · 05-27-2011, 11:00 AM

3 months?
22?
20% BF?
You want results NOW?
GOTTA BE KIDDING ME..................

**gixxerboy1** · 05-27-2011, 11:07 AM

you at min. Need to straighten out your diet first and drop some bf.
Why dont you post that up and lets start there

**spot215** · 05-27-2011, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

you at min. Need to straighten out your diet first and drop some bf.
Why dont you post that up and lets start there

the last month and a half has been strict dieting, i started at 197lbs, not sure what bf% was. now im 180 with 20% bf.
i do cardio everyday, sometimes 6 day week.
what would really happen if i didnt drop my bf before doing it?
and what would be a good bf goal?

THANKS!

**spot215** · 05-27-2011, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by 38jumper38

3 months?
22?
20% BF?
You want results NOW?
GOTTA BE KIDDING ME..................

dont be a d!ck....

**markiejw** · 05-27-2011, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by spot215

dont be a d!ck....

You get that a lot around here... thats the way the internet rolls though. Strength in anonymity.

Anyways, you aren't going to see NOW results with Test. It'll obviously come a lot quicker than without the test but it still takes some time and hard-work. A lot of people will suggest you weight train for awhile before trying to juice. If you juice but haven't really figured out how to weight train then you're waisting your time, and money.

With all that being said... if you know how to weight train, and YOU think you're ready for it, give it a shot. Just make sure you do your research. Eat healthy, train hard, and clean your body afterwards. If you just take a mild cycle of Test as a first cycle, assuming everything is in order, then you'll be fine. According to THIS the Test-Prop will actually help you burn fat.

**gixxerboy1** · 05-27-2011, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by markiejw

You get that a lot around here... thats the way the internet rolls though. Strength in anonymity.

Anyways, you aren't going to see NOW results with Test. It'll obviously come a lot quicker than without the test but it still takes some time and hard-work. A lot of people will suggest you weight train for awhile before trying to juice. If you juice but haven't really figured out how to weight train then you're waisting your time, and money.

With all that being said... if you know how to weight train, and YOU think you're ready for it, give it a shot. Just make sure you do your research. Eat healthy, train hard, and clean your body afterwards. If you just take a mild cycle of Test as a first cycle, assuming everything is in order, then you'll be fine. According to THIS the Test-Prop will actually help you burn fat.

he is not ready. Just read his first post. And steroids dont burn fat

**spot215** · 05-27-2011, 02:19 PM

say i do the cycle and gain 10 lbs of muscle, once the cycle is over and im eating good and still training hard, how much of that mucle usually stays?

**rabidsquirrel** · 05-27-2011, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by markiejw

You get that a lot around here... thats the way the internet rolls though. Strength in anonymity.

Anyways, you aren't going to see NOW results with Test. It'll obviously come a lot quicker than without the test but it still takes some time and hard-work. A lot of people will suggest you weight train for awhile before trying to juice. If you juice but haven't really figured out how to weight train then you're waisting your time, and money.

With all that being said... if you know how to weight train, and YOU think you're ready for it, give it a shot. Just make sure you do your research. Eat healthy, train hard, and clean your body afterwards. If you just take a mild cycle of Test as a first cycle, assuming everything is in order, then you'll be fine. According to THIS the Test-Prop will actually help you burn fat.

This is really bad advise. hes not at all ready, his muscle arent, his joint and tendons arent, hes only been train 3 months. he hasnt even finish growing natty yet. man you need to be careful on the advice you give people here.

**rabidsquirrel** · 05-27-2011, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by spot215

say i do the cycle and gain 10 lbs of muscle, once the cycle is over and im eating good and still training hard, how much of that mucle usually stays?

probably not much your bodys not ready yet. you have to build a base

**markiejw** · 05-27-2011, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

he is not ready. Just read his first post. And steroids dont burn fat

Not according to that link and those case studies.

The guy is 22 years old, if he's going to do juice isn't better to help him then push him off. He's going to do it either way. Besides, 25 is an average age. You don't know if his body is ready or not based on that. That's like telling a 10 year old he's going to hit puberty when he is 13... its just the norm.

**markiejw** · 05-27-2011, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by rabidsquirrel

This is really bad advise. hes not at all ready, his muscle arent, his joint and tendons arent, hes only been train 3 months. he hasnt even finish growing natty yet. man you need to be careful on the advice you give people here.

I'm pretty sure I told him he needs to make sure he knows how to weight train first... All I said is when he is ready then, xxxxxxxxx.

**gixxerboy1** · 05-27-2011, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by markiejw

Not according to that link and those case studies.

The guy is 22 years old, if he's going to do juice isn't better to help him then push him off. He's going to do it either way. Besides, 25 is an average age. You don't know if his body is ready or not based on that. That's like telling a 10 year old he's going to hit puberty when he is 13... its just the norm.

he is not ready cause he has been working out for about 3 months is 5'11 180lbs at 20% bf
if he is ready then who isnt?

**markiejw** · 05-27-2011, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

he is not ready cause he has been working out for about 3 months is 5'11 180lbs at 20% bf
if he is ready then who isnt?

Like I said in my post... if, and when, he knows how to weight train, then he'll be fine.

I agree he isn't ready with only 3 months weight training. I wasn't trying to tell him to go pin some gear right now and get huge, if I made that impression then my bad.. I'm just trying to answer his question as safely as I can without being like 90% of the people that come here for advice and get told to screw off... at least he's making an attempt to gain some knowledge first.

**spot215** · 05-27-2011, 02:34 PM

i honestly dont feel like im ready.

thats why im asking when is it right?
after like 2 years of training, or like 6 months??

lol, alotta tention on this forum

thats why i came on here, cuz everyone has their own opinion and its better to hear more than 1. u know

**gixxerboy1** · 05-27-2011, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by markiejw

Like I said in my post... if, and when, he knows how to weight train, then he'll be fine.

I agree he isn't ready with only 3 months weight training. I wasn't trying to tell him to go pin some gear right now and get huge, if I made that impression then my bad.. I'm just trying to answer his question as safely as I can without being like 90% of the people that come here for advice and get told to screw off... at least he's making an attempt to gain some knowledge first.

Thats def how your post came across.
Nobody told him to screw off. I told him to post up his diet and we can start there.
If someone's not ready for AAS then they aren't ready. I'm not going to tell them the best way to go about possibly screwing themselves up.

**gixxerboy1** · 05-27-2011, 02:40 PM

it depends on alot of things. But mostly when you cant make gains on your own naturally. Diet is a huge part of this. Learn to eat correctly and you will be amazed on what results you can get

**markiejw** · 05-27-2011, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by spot215

i honestly dont feel like im ready.

thats why im asking when is it right?
after like 2 years of training, or like 6 months??

lol, alotta tention on this forum

thats why i came on here, cuz everyone has their own opinion and its better to hear more than 1. u know

That's a very generic question to answer bro.

It is always in your best interest to wait until you're around 25. Now, three years is going to seem like forever but it is the safest road for you. From now until then just do some research on different workout routines and find a couple that you like. There is one here on the forum in the workout section called Slingshot Training. It's a 10 week routine with 8 weeks on and 2 weeks off. That'll eat up 10 weeks of your life and give you some great training. Once you're finished with that find another routine that'll last you around 8-10 weeks, or do some research and make your own routine. You'll find that as you build muscle naturally then you're body will burn BF at a faster rate. If you have a buddy that knows how to workout ask him if you can go with him and get some pointers on how to workout. There is a TON to learn.

**rabidsquirrel** · 05-27-2011, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by spot215

i honestly dont feel like im ready.

thats why im asking when is it right?
after like 2 years of training, or like 6 months??

lol, alotta tention on this forum

thats why i came on here, cuz everyone has their own opinion and its better to hear more than 1. u know

most will tell you 2-3 yrs. i have different opinion on this. each person will be different. i think get your body fat done and wait till you hit a platoe for a few months where i cant gain muscle anymore. this wont happen for a good while, yr, 2, different for everyone.

**markiejw** · 05-27-2011, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

Thats def how your post came across.
Nobody told him to screw off. I told him to post up his diet and we can start there.
If someone's not ready for AAS then they aren't ready. I'm not going to tell them the best way to go about possibly screwing themselves up.

I understand, but people get laughed at and pushed off a lot around here. Which I just don't think is the right thing to do. With a little explanation of why or why not someone might or might not be ready along with answering their question will hopefully push them into doing the right thing, on their own... kinda like the OP has done now.

**songdog** · 05-27-2011, 02:46 PM

Well at your age your endo system can be messed up.You can have sexual problems for the rest of your life.And at 20% bf you will stand a better chance at gettin gyno.Also at that bf you wont see your gains cuz your so big.So in laymans terms if you want to be big.You will have to work for it.And it wont be easy.Use them now you will most likely gain fat.Have fun.

**gixxerboy1** · 05-27-2011, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by markiejw

I understand, but people get laughed at and pushed off a lot around here. Which I just don't think is the right thing to do. With a little explanation of why or why not someone might or might not be ready along with answering their question will hopefully push them into doing the right thing, on their own... kinda like the OP has done now.

I agree with you. But alot of kids if you explain to them that they arent ready but still tell them how to cycle they are just going to do it. Thats why i dont explain the cycle. its knowledge they dont need at this time. I'll be happy to tell them how to train and diet to get ready to cycle in the future.

**rabidsquirrel** · 05-27-2011, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

I agree with you. But alot of kids if you explain to them that they arent ready but still tell them how to cycle they are just going to do it. Thats why i dont explain the cycle. its knowledge they dont need at this time. I'll be happy to tell them how to train and diet to get ready to cycle in the future.

also if they really wanted to know then they could research it and find out. there is so much info on this site. if they did just a little research they would find there answers and also find you there not ready.

**dece870717** · 05-27-2011, 08:47 PM

Guy i know at the gym is perfect example of someone that needs to get other stuff in order first, badly. He has a lot of the same stats as you but couple inches shorter. Hes been working out for a few years(ya, years), has done a combo of 5-6 prohormone/aas cycles and get this, he does not look like he works out AT ALL. Its pathetic, dont be that guy, you need to get either diet or training or both in order first, otherwise you'll piss your money away on roids that get you no where!

**Windex** · 05-27-2011, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by spot215

i honestly dont feel like im ready.

thats why im asking when is it right?
after like 2 years of training, or like 6 months??

lol, alotta tention on this forum

thats why i came on here, cuz everyone has their own opinion and its better to hear more than 1. u know

It all depends on the individual but atleast 2-3 years to be able to develop a good base from where you are now. You have to realize that muscles grow a lot faster than tendon and ligament tissue does. That means, although you may be able to bench press 35-50 lbs more your going to tear a tendon or ligament, brake a bone, or even fatally injure yourself if you don't have a spotter. This website has all the information you need to start researching and understanding the aspects of safe steroid use . As well, your hormone levels are still fluctuating and your growth plates are probably not closed yet (Multiple X-Rays can be done to confirm this - regardless you still have a lot of work to do). In addition, dieting is the single most important part of bodybuilding. With a poor diet you will only gain fat and water bloat, and you will lose everything as soon as you come off your PCT.

Spend the next few years perfecting your form, training routines, and dieting knowledge. Come 25-26 years old if your still dedicated to this type of hobby and lifestyle the members here would be more than happy to set you up with a first cycle (although you may not even need any help by that time assuming you do independent research in your free time).

The best investment I've made so far was seeing a personal trainer 1-2 times a month for 1-2 hour session and just going through proper technique and good form.

This compiled list of articles will help start you out for dieting:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...et-Information

**Shol'va** · 05-27-2011, 10:42 PM

I know the temptation is there to go ahead and do it now but man you really need to get everything in check first like getting that B/F down below 15%, strict regimen of training for a good year, dietary in check, and then after reading all you can and understanding the possible negative effects, and you still want to go for it and have all the stuff handy to do a complete cycle with pct, well then it's up to you. But don't be discouraged by most here that don't want to help you right now because you aren't ready for it. Think of it as we are looking out for you and don't want you to be another bad steroid statistic. But over in the diet and exercise area they will be glad to get you started on your way to a bigger, badder, healthier you.

**sdmlsu1** · 05-28-2011, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by spot215

say i do the cycle and gain 10 lbs of muscle, once the cycle is over and im eating good and still training hard, how much of that mucle usually stays?

If you only gain 10 pounds on your first cycle pack it in and go home. Also how often you planning to shoot that Test and how much per week?

**sdmlsu1** · 05-28-2011, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by rabidsquirrel

most will tell you 2-3 yrs. i have different opinion on this. each person will be different. i think get your body fat done and wait till you hit a platoe for a few months where i cant gain muscle anymore. this wont happen for a good while, yr, 2, different for everyone.

IMO if you truly have a good diet and hit a plateau for a few months with no gains inside of a year you have no idea how to lift weights. Believe me i've caught plenty of flack on here over this arbitrary 25yr old rule. This sport is EXTREMELY individual specific. You have to be honest with yourself about what you really know about diet and training then make your decision. When I say training I don't mean how to do a proper curl but rather how much muscle you put on natural and how quick compared to others.

**gixxerboy1** · 05-28-2011, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by sdmlsu1

If you only gain 10 pounds on your first cycle pack it in and go home. Also how often you planning to shoot that Test and how much per week?

actually no he shouldnt. It may mean he waited until he was ready to cycle. That he really hit a natural plateau.
people that gain 20-30 pounds on a cycle are the people who had no place cycling

**sdmlsu1** · 05-28-2011, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

actually no he shouldnt. It may mean he waited until he was ready to cycle. That he really hit a natural plateau.
30 people that gain 20-30 pounds on a cycle are the people who had no place cycling

Uhh-okay. lol

**gixxerboy1** · 05-28-2011, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by sdmlsu1

Uhh-okay. lol

Really? Why don't you explain your thoughts

This was written by phreezer

Here’s some info for guys who want to gain 20-25lbs on a cycle.

Everyone wants to know how to gain high poundages on a cycle. We’ve all got a “friend” in a gym somewhere that gained 25lbs on his last cycle and we want to do the same. We ask ourselves…What is his secret? Is the juice he’s taking that good? Is it a good diet in conjunction with the test.. is that what is responsible? Well, here’s the answer.. NO, his particular anabolic compound of choice be it Sustanon , Winstrol , Dbol , Tren , etc… isn’t so great that whoever takes one of those compounds will grow.. nor is his diet so “on” that he will gain more than us.

Here’s the truth.. and some of you won’t like it.. Some of you may even get pissed off.. The reason these guys grow so much on their cycles is because they shouldn’t even be using steroids to begin with… And that’s the truth… That may sound a bit confusing.. yes? Well allow me to elaborate…

You take a 20 yr old male. He has been lifting on and off for six months or so… He’s about 6 foot tall maybe a little shorter.. 5’10” or so.. He weighs about 165lbs.. He’s got a little bit of definition.. nothing big.. when his shirt is off people can tell he’s been working out.. He decides one day that he wants to take steroids, He sees the really big guys in the gym and he wants to be like them right now.. he doesn’t want to wait any longer.. in his mind six months has been long enough.. So he gets on the internet.. he finds a message board similar to this one.. he reads a little .. finds a hook up.. and decides to run 250mg of test and 300mg of deca for two months and ends up weighing around 185 or 190.. All of his friends are amazed.. he’s amazed He’s put on some size.. he looks like a weight lifter.. he doesn’t look like someone who could compete.. but he looks like he’s finally arrived on the Body building scene… His closest friends are so impressed that they want to run the exact same cycle .. He tells them exactly what he did.. how he ate etc… Now, a few months go by.. all of a sudden the kid is back to around 165 maybe 170.. He thinks.. “Oh man.. I’ve got to get back on cycle.. I need those drugs to be big.. if I don’t.. I just can’t grow… Steroids require that I stay on all the time to maintain the kind of size that I want”… I guess that’s what he has to do; huh; stay on all the time?

Now, here’s the reason he gained 25lbs on his cycle.. He was so far from his genetic potential that once the anabolic compounds were introduced into his system he grew like a weed.. His body didn’t need to struggle to put on that mass, because it was quite capable of adding that much mass naturally.. The steroids just sped it up..

it is for lack of a better or more accurate word.. a short cut to get to where he could have gotten natural anyway. His inevitable weight loss after coming off his "super" cycle wasn’t from the lack of steroids.. it was from a lack of a proper foundation.. a Lack of proper training skills, and a lack of muscular maturation…

Here’s the deal.. guys who need steroids aren’t the guys who are growing 25+lbs per cycle.. they are gaining 10lbs and hopefully keeping 5-8.. They are struggling to even do that.. I’ll tell you from personal experience.. I am 30 yrs old 6’2” .. I am 284lbs currently.. I am 17% BF (I’m a power lifter/strongman.. so I keep a little extra fat on me)…If I wanted to keep the same body fat % I have now and weigh 300lbs.. I would have to run a very long cycle. or in all honesty it will take me two full cycles to get to 3 bills..

An average cycle for me is about 750mg Test, 450mg Deca, 300mg EQ and Some Dbol in the front and at the end… Those are some fairly heavy dosages...Why don’t I gain 25lbs per cycle?

Because No matter how much gear I take.. no matter how much I eat.. my body is so far beyond it’s genetic potential that I simply can’t add that kind of radical mass anymore..

My body does a fairly good job of maintaining mass when I’m not on cycle.. but I do drop weight regardless.. and in truth, the only reason my body maintains it’s size as well as it does is because of Muscle maturation.. My body is used to carrying around that muscle.. it’s not a shock to my body to carry it around.. And I built a solid mass foundation naturally years ago.. I reached my genetic potential before I started using juice.. Lifting was a habit and a lifestyle for me because I played football from Junior high through College.

I’ve worked out in gyms all over the country.. and I have been doing so for the better part of a decade.. and I'll tell you, I have seen a lot of little guys blow up for a couple of months from a cycle only to deflate a couple of months later. It's the truth.. Muscle Maturation plays a huge key in keeping mass... that and proper training skills.. (and no hitting bench 3 days a week and squatting once every few months doesn't count)

So in truth, when you hear about some guy who gained 25-30lbs off of a cycle.. Please keep in mind that he is probably some impatient tiny punk that could have easily gained the same amount of muscle had he just been a little more patient.. If he had just been focused on learning how to train.. focused on how to eat…

This is a lifestyle.. there are no short cuts if you want to be the real deal.... There will never be a fly by nighter even win the smallest amateur comp in booney freaking Iowa if he hasn't been serious for years...

It's important that you guys learn that Juice may seem like the best short cut in the beginning... but whenever you add that much mass that quickly from gear.. Your body isn’t going to be ready for it.. it will literally fight you to keep it.. the sudden size and strength will stress the ligaments, tendons, bones and central nervous system and Your body will do everything that it can to shed those rapid muscle gains.. Decent muscle mass is only kept through time and hard work (cough.. cough.. it's a cliché.. but it's still true).. and it's important that your gains aren't so fast that the body can't adjust healthfully to it’s new weight gain..

I've been on the boards for years.. and I'll tell you, 80% of the people on these boards are wannabes and posers.. they are guys who won’t even be working out six months from now.. They are impatient and are looking for the shortcut.. they may even get a few short term results.. but in the long run they will come out behind everyone else (and when I say long run.. i mean less than a year or two)

These kind of guys will never be anything more than a hobbyist.. and in truth...that is probably the case in every other aspect of their lives as well, not just weight lifting..

So in the end my advice is this.. if you are wanting to add some mass. and you’re stuck.. learn a different training method.. change your diet.. and if you’re a good size.. (that’s when everyone who is in the room with you knows you’re a weight lifter.. if you walk in a room, and everyone in there doesn’t know that you lift… you are not ready for steroids) then come and sit down.. and we’ll talk about steroids.. until then… Learn how to train.. learn how to eat.. and spend some time in the gym.. you’ll be so much better off in the end…

-Created by Phreezer."

**rabidsquirrel** · 05-28-2011, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

actually no he shouldnt. It may mean he waited until he was ready to cycle. That he really hit a natural plateau.
people that gain 20-30 pounds on a cycle are the people who had no place cycling

true that. ive done some cycle where i only gained 4-5 pounds and they werent just test cycles. oh course id get hard as a rock and way stronger but as far as putting on weight, not so much. the bigger you get the harder it is to get bigger(of course i also always ate super clean because i wanted to keep bf down) . suck now that im nursing is ****ed up shoulder for over a year. hope i get at least half of it back when i get back to it.

**sdmlsu1** · 05-28-2011, 12:41 PM

I started working out at 15 with 4 of my best friends they 2 of them started pinning (Test only) at 17 about 2yrs, I waited until I hit about 18 roughly 3yrs. Before I started pinning I was putting on almost as much muscle as them natural. They were in the 12 pound range and kept about 6lbs. When I ran my first cycle I put on 24lbs and kept about 14lbs (Test only same dosage). Now I'm 37yrs old and have been doing this a while. As the years have gone by my overall gains have come down but my retention based on percentage hasn't dropped anywhere near my initial gains with a sh** load of more compounds run through the years. The more cycles you run the less your going to gain, as you start really maxing out your genetic potential. I know phreezer and he's a big guy for sure but the way my situation worked out was different. Most people probably all that I know who have been in the game a long time will agree the best cycle is your first one if done right, from there on things will start to slowly taper down which is exactly what happened to me. End result I was much happier with my gains than they were with theirs. All I know is how things have worked for me.

**Bonaparte** · 05-28-2011, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by sdmlsu1

Uhh-okay. lol

If you can gain and keep 10lbs of ACTUAL muscle on a first test cycle, you probably weren't near your genetic limit.
You obviously jumped the gun, or you're counting bloat and glycogen retention as muscle gain.

**markiejw** · 05-28-2011, 03:54 PM

I will never understand how people can be so generic about "results". EVERYONE is different. Just because something didn't work for one guy doesn't mean the exact same thing won't work for another. It seems like the same people who agree there is no perfect workout routine for everyone will be the first ones to spout off, "you MUST be 25 before you start." Everyone, EVERYONE, has a different story and different genetics. I will personally always be one to just try and help those that are curious. I'm not anyones dad, and they aren't looking for my permission to run a cycle - so who am I to call the kettle black (as the saying goes)?

With that said, I understand that there are very obvious situations when someone just isn't ready but I think it's far more productive to educate them then tell them to come back in 3 years, even though that might be the best answer.

**DGK** · 05-28-2011, 10:20 PM

Most ppl tell them to hit the diet section for 3 yrs.. And truth is most ppl's endocrine systems are not fully developed in their early 20's. I think its highly irresponsible of people to sit there and not only encourage a young kid to do aas but to tell them how to. Just because i wouldnt wanna be responsible for a 20 yr old not being able to get a hard on or going bald, etc... Just saying on this site the acceptable age to begin steroids is 25 if you dont like or agree with that you should prob join a diff forum ya know..