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I am on my first cycle. 500mg/wk test prop. Been fooling around w/ the dosage of my AI (liquid stane from a-ar) to figure out what works for me. Went up to 12.5mg/ed for the last 3 days, and suddenly I am sluggish, and my hips and knees are achy. Does this sound like I am too low on estrogen?
Why are you messing around with the dose Buddy?
Run it at 12.5mg EOD and only adjust if you run into problems...
And yes you could have caused this by a reduction in E
I started taking 12.5 EOD and it made my joints hurt. I stopped taking it and everything went back to normal. Follow up blood work showed that my E stays low and I don't need the AI. My philosophy is to not take anything that I am sure I need. I think blood work is the best tool ever.
Its my first cycle, and I was kinda paranoid about estro sides. I just started low on the AI and worked my way up to the highest dose I had seen recommended. Wanted to figure out what worked for me. Definately less than 12.5/ed! I'm gonna drop it to eod and stay there for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline_9
P.s. baseline, I pm'd you a link to my diet thread a while ago. I have been reading ur diet thread and trying a few of ur recipes. If you ever get a minute, check it out and give me any feedback.
Thanks bruthas.
Here's a nice write up about aromasin......
Aromasin - Exemestane
Chemical Name: Exemestane
Drug Class: Type-I Aromatase Inhibitor
The below article about Aromasin-Exemestane discusses how it works and gives a history of the drug. You can find articles about all of the steroids and other drugs listed on our site, including arimidex, dianabol, testosterone suspension, Letrozole, HGH [Human Growth Hormone] and nolvadex among many others. We are here to help you stay informed and updated on steroids and all other bodybuilding drugs.
Aromasin (Exemestane) is a Type-I aromatase inhibitor, or suicidal aromatase inhibitor. It’s called this because it lowers estrogen production in the body by attaching to the aromatase enzyme, and permanently deactivating it. (1)
Personally, I find this to be a very interesting mechanism of action when compared to type-II aromatase inhibitors, which bind competitively to the aromatase enzyme, and eventually unbind, rendering it active again. In the case of Aromasin, this doesn’t happen, and once it does its job on the enzyme, those particular enzymes will no longer function. Your body will eventually create more of the aromatase enzyme, so this isn’t dangerous, despite the really odd “suicide” thing in the first paragraph. As with all aromatase inhibitors, Aromasin was developed to fight breast cancer primarily in post-menopausal women, but we in the athletic community use it to combat estrogenic side effects from aromatizable steroids, or for post cycle therapy.
Estrogen is responsible for many of the effects we’re trying to avoid when we’re on a cycle, including excess water retention and development of gynocomastia (breast tissue development in males. Thus, limiting the conversion of testosterone into estrogen is of use for steroid using athletes, when they’re trying to avoid side effects. In this case, the advantage of using a suicidal aromatase inhibitor is that it really won’t cause much, if any, noticeable “rebound” in estrogen when you cease using it.
The hard numbers on Aromasin are reasonably impressive, as it averages an 85% rate of estrogen suppression (2), and this translates to an overall reduction in estradiol levels of about 50%(I believe this is overstated), as well as raising testosterone to a significant degree.(3).
It is also known as a “steroidal” aromatase inhibitor. This is really interesting, because it has been known to actually cause side effects (androgenic sides) that include increased aggressiveness and a pretty decent hardening effect. (4) I wouldn’t usually suggest that women should use Aromasin in large doses for any extended period of time, for this reason (possible virilization, or development of male sexual characteristics could occur with its use). It should, therefore, be reserved for use by women to brief periods of time in a possible pre-contest phase or for a form of post cycle therapy after a cycle.
Interestingly (and almost paradoxically) exemestane not only increases testosterone and lowers estrogen, but it also increases levels of insulin-like growth Factor (IGF). (5) I find this to be interesting, because although the rise in testosterone is most likely responsible for the increase in IGF levels, IGF is known to be an aggravating factor in the growth of breast tumors, like the kind found in breast cancer. However, since estrogen is the primary culprit in breast cancer, the large reduction in estrogen levels, even when combined with a rise in IGF, is enough to make Aromasin a very effective breast cancer medication. /div> Aromasin isn’t too harsh on blood lipids (6) (cholesterol), unlike some of the other AIs’ like Letrozole.
Exemestane reaches steady blood plasma levels of after a week of administration and this is also when we see it begin its maximal effect on reducing circulating estrogen levels. It’s also has a ˝ life of 27 hours (4), so taking it once per day is going to build up blood plasma levels to a very effective level.
References:
1. A predictive model for exemestane pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics incorporating the effect of food and formulation.Br J Clin Pharmacol. 2005 Mar;59(3):355-64.
2. Eur. J. Cancer. 2000, May;36(8):976-82
3. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 88, No. 12 5951-5956Copyright © 2003 by The Endocrine Society
4. Clin Cancer Res. 2003 Jan;9(1 Pt 2):468S-72S
5. Anticancer Res. 2003 Jul-Aug;23(4):3485
6. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Dec;88(12):5951-6.
how are u meant to know when to stop using the AI , like u cant really check ur estrogen lvls without a blood test ay..
Its my first cycle, and I was kinda paranoid about estro sides. I just started low on the AI and worked my way up to the highest dose I had seen recommended. Wanted to figure out what worked for me. Definately less than 12.5/ed! I'm gonna drop it to eod and stay there for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline_9
P.s. baseline, I pm'd you a link to my diet thread a while ago. I have been reading ur diet thread and trying a few of ur recipes. If you ever get a minute, check it out and give me any feedback.
Thanks bruthas.
You stop using ur ai the day b4 u begin pctQuote:
Originally Posted by aussie_bodybuilda
any reason for this... ?? i thought u were meant to just use it to get rid of gyno, ive been reading alot and it says u still need some estrogen levels, not alot but some.. so wouldnt it be better to just use when u start seeing gyno symptons and till they disapear then stop? or how does it work.?Quote:
Originally Posted by DGK
I wouldnt begin a AI untill i had those sides. No need to add excess chemicals. Esp with prop.
Aromasin can be used through PCT.
why cant adex and letrozole?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulkn
I take it as a preventative measure 12.5 eod.. liquid stane does not kill all estrogen and neither do similar ai's. But an ai like letro is pretty strong i wouldnt take that till u actually have a reason too.Quote:
Originally Posted by aussie_bodybuilda
aromasin can be used its not reversible. adex and letrozole are reversible.
wat do u mean by reversible?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonada8
i think hes referring to the rebound you will get from adex/letro and thats why you cant use them in pct. no rebound with aromasin.
I would cut that dosage in half and use it daily. Roughly 6-7mg per day.Quote:
Originally Posted by pheenyx1
can u use an AI after u finished ur cycle and pct, to help get rid of gyno?
i would use nolva/tamox/tore