Test. Enan. 500mg. vs 1,000mg. per week

**Money** · 06-08-2011, 11:34 PM

I am 46 years old and have been training and cycling off and on since my late teens.
Last few years, I cycle twice a year.

This cycle is Test. Enan and Tren .
Also using Dbol 40mg./day for the first 5 - 6 weeks.
Arimidex .25 EOD

Question is what difference can be seen between using 1,000mg./week of Test. Enan. compared to using 500mg./week?

I have tried 1,000mg./week once before in the middle of my cycle but not really sure if it made a difference except to give me a sore ass from the extra juice being injected.

**bradhore** · 06-09-2011, 06:27 AM

all depends on how much you were previously taking years ago. You should always slightly increase the amount of test you take from cycle to cycle.. Whether its by 25Mg a week or 50mg a week. with some people it can cause nothing appart from more side effects. Whats your stats?

**Money** · 06-09-2011, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by bradhore

all depends on how much you were previously taking years ago. You should always slightly increase the amount of test you take from cycle to cycle.. Whether its by 25Mg a week or 50mg a week. with some people it can cause nothing appart from more side effects. Whats your stats?

For years, I was doing about 250mg./week of Test. Then a couple of years ago, I increased that to 500mg/week of Test. when I would cycle. Last year, I put that up to 750mg/week for about 6 weeks in the middle of my 12 week cycle and then on my last cycle that started last December, I ran 1,000mg/week for about 6 weeks in the middle of my 12 week cycle.
5' 7"
198 lbs.
46 yrs. old
I am just wondering if there really is any difference by me using 1,000mg/week compared to 750mg. or 500mg. or am I just throwing money out the window.

**Lemonada8** · 06-09-2011, 07:46 PM

using a gram of test a week is WAY overkill IMO. and you arent a body builder on a 6th cycle pushing past genetic limit

also, why would you want to increase your test every cycle?

**Money** · 06-09-2011, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

using a gram of test a week is WAY overkill IMO. and you arent a body builder on a 6th cycle pushing past genetic limit

also, why would you want to increase your test every cycle?

Not looking to increase my Test. on every cycle. Over many years, I have worked
up to this level. Just seems that I am not seeing the results the last couple of years
like I used to. Could be age or it could be that my body has become adjusted to the
amount that I use.
I just want to pack on some serious size.

**Lemonada8** · 06-09-2011, 07:54 PM

the increasing was aimed to the other guy...

but you did that to ur self by uppin gur dose of T every time. Now ur gonna need that cuz thats what ur body is used to now. u may wanna consider stacking so u dont have to go with that much test

**Money** · 06-09-2011, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

the increasing was aimed to the other guy...

but you did that to ur self by uppin gur dose of T every time. Now ur gonna need that cuz thats what ur body is used to now. u may wanna consider stacking so u dont have to go with that much test

I only started increasing my dosages years ago when I wasn't seeing the results like I wanted
and was previously getting. I do stack. I will usually start with Dbol to kickstart my cycle.
I will use Tren or Deca . Sometimes, I will throw in Premobolin or Equipois.

**yungone501** · 06-09-2011, 08:11 PM

Most vets will say if you can use 250mg/wk and still have results, stick with that dosage. Goes make to the rule: if it aint broke dont fix it. Dont readjust your dosage until your gains halt, wasting money and enduring sides purposelessly.

**buffgator** · 06-09-2011, 10:03 PM

There is no such thing as needing to increase test each and every cycle. i have ran the exact same doses gore the most part for almost 10th years and i always get realistic results. i have ran 500 & 1000mg both and i myself didn't notice anything that would cause me to say with surety that i saw a difference. Money you won't always see the same results as the previous cycle because the further you push past your genetic limit the smaller your gains become.

**bjpennnn** · 06-09-2011, 10:21 PM

I do not think we can tell him he should not take 1 gram of test a week. He has obviously been around and knows whats up. For the question yes there is a difference between 1000mg of test and 750 and 500. But with it is more chance of sides as you already know. You could always run 750mgs of test and throw in some prov or mast and it will feel like more.

**buffgator** · 06-09-2011, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by bjpennnn

I do not think we can tell him he should not take 1 gram of test a week. He has obviously been around and knows whats up. For the question yes there is a difference between 1000mg of test and 750 and 500. But with it is more chance of sides as you already know. You could always run 750mgs of test and throw in some prov or mast and it will feel like more.

some of the worst advice i ever got was from guys who claimed 20-30 years of aas use.

**Money** · 06-09-2011, 11:35 PM

I am not increasing each cycle. For a very long time when I feel like I have peaked on a cycle and don't see the results that I have in the past, then I have increased a bit. As I said, I have been cycling off and on since my teens. I know my stacks, I know my bulking stacks, cutting stacks and what to use to get the results that I want for that cycle. I am not a young guy in his early 20's just learning. I am now 46 yrs. old with many years of cycling and training under my wings. What I am looking for here is other guys who have actually experienced the difference between 500mg and 1,000mg. week. As we age, it gets harder. I see it and feel it in the gym even though I am still a regular. Let's face it, back when I was in High School and did 50mg./ week, I saw big results. I would never see those results with that amount today.

**BSchmidt350z** · 06-10-2011, 12:12 AM

What about articles like this.. I will copy and paste since its from another board. St.....ology.com

It makes it pretty cut and clear that More Test = better results....

300mg vs 600mg of testosterone
The following is part of a thread by heavyiron over at MD, the full abstact can be found here..Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

The following text outlines the benefits and risks of Testosterone administration based on a clinical human trial of 61 healthy men in 2001. The purpose of the trial was to determine the dose dependency of testosterone’s effects on fat-free mass and muscle performance. In this trial 61 men, 18-35years old were randomized into 5 groups receiving weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, 600 mg of Testosterone enanthate for 20 weeks. They had previous weight-lifting experience and normal T levels. Their nutritional intake was standardized and they did not undertake any strength training during the trial. The only two groups that reported significant muscle building benefits were the 300 and 600 mg groups so any dose lower than 300mg will not be considered in this essay. 12 men participated in the 300 mg group and 13 men in the 600 mg group.
600mg of Testosterone a week for 20 weeks resulted in the following benefits. Increased fat free mass, muscle strength, muscle power, muscle volume, hemoglobin and igf-1.
The same 600 mg administration resulted in 2 side effects. HDL cholesterol was negatively correlated and 2 men developed acne.
The normal range for total T in men is 241-827 ng/dl according to Labcorp and 260-1000 ng/dl according to Quest Laboratories. The normal range for igf-1 is 81-225 according to Labcorp. Total T and igf-1 levels were taken after 16 weeks and resulted in the following;

Total Testosterone
300 mg group-1,345 ng/dl a 691 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-2,370 ng/dl a 1,737 ng increase from baseline

igf-1
300 mg group-388 ng/dl a 74 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-304 ng/dl a 77 ng increase from baseline

Body composition was measured after 20 weeks.

Fat Free Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-5.2kg (11.4lbs) increase
600 mg group-7.9kg (17.38lbs) increase
Fat Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-.5kg (1.1lbs) decrease
600 mg group-1.1kg (2.42lbs) decrease
Thigh Muscle Volume
300 mg group-84 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-126 cubic centimeter increase
Quadriceps Muscle Volume
300 mg group-43 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-68 cubic centimeter increase
Leg Press Strength
300 mg group-72.2kg (158.8lbs) increase
600 mg group-76.5kg (168.3lbs) increase
Leg Power
300 mg group-38.6 watt increase
600 mg group-48.1 watt increase
Hemoglobin
300 mg group-6.1 gram per liter increase
600 mg group-14.2 gram per liter increase
Plasma HDL Cholesterol
300 mg group-5.7 mg/dl decrease
600 mg group-8.4 mg/dl decrease
Acne
300 mg group-7 of the 12 men developed acne
600 mg group-2 of the 13 men developed acne

There were no significant changes in PSA or liver enzymes at any dose up to 600mg. However, long-term effects of androgen administration on the prostate, cardiovascular risk, and behavior are unknown. The study demonstrated that there is a dose dependant relationship with testosterone administration. In other words the more testosterone administered the greater the muscle building effects and potential for side effects.

Given the results of the study and based on years of personal experience I believe the first time user can safely use between 300-600 mg of testosterone enanthate or cypionate per week for 8-12 weeks. Because it is desirable to have even blood androgen levels I advise at least 2 equal injections per week. Testosterone cypionate peaks within 1-2 days after injection and falls off to almost baseline by day 10. Therefore waiting 7 days between injections of cypionate would cause wide fluctuations in blood androgen levels.

If a first time user wanted to use 600 mg of cypionate or enanthate per week he would inject 300 mg on Tuesday and another 300 mg on Saturday each week for 10 weeks. When injecting long heavy esters like cypionate with this frequency I tend to have less acne then 1 injection per week.
There are a number of esters which provide varying release times. Acetate or propionate esters extend the release time of testosterone a couple of days. In contrast, a deconate ester prolongs the release of testosterone about 3 weeks. Testosterone enanthate and cypionate are almost identical esters. The use of an ester allows for a less frequent injection schedule than using a water based testosterone like suspension which has no ester at all and is rapidly in and out of your system after injection. The published release times are not exact and are many times based on a single injection not many multiple injections which can delay the release of the hormone. Other factors affect release times of esters such as scar tissue and the muscle group injected. Only a blood test can confirm when the active hormone has cleared your system.
Esters not only effect release times but also the potency of the Testosterone as esters make up part of the steroid weight. This must be taken into account when calculating dosages. The longer the release time the less free hormone. For example propionate is about 15% more potent mg. for mg. then enanthate so 500mg of propionate would equal about 575 mg. of enanthate.

**bradhore** · 06-10-2011, 12:23 AM

i think if your getting very little gains, its obviously time for you to start using hgh which WILL push your gains past your natural genetics . And you should be adding more test. Just be prepared for more sides.

**Money** · 06-10-2011, 12:25 AM

BSchmidt350z, I have read very similar articles like this before and that is part of the reason why I increased up to 1,000mg/week on my last cycle. The more Test, the better is what I saw and the side effects were not really something to worry about from what I could see.

**Turkish Juicer** · 06-10-2011, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by Money

BSchmidt350z, I have read very similar articles like this before and that is part of the reason why I increased up to 1,000mg/week on my last cycle. The more Test, the better is what I saw and the side effects were not really something to worry about from what I could see.

The article posted above concentrates on a human study of 300mg vs 600mg of testosterone , not 500mg vs 1000mg.

There is a massive difference between scientific inquiry and generalizations; hence, leaping to a conclusion that more test leads to better results cannot be put forward without having a proper human study basis as a reference.

Thus, 300mg vs 600mg of testosterone cannot be made into a conclusive point of reference to a hypothetical discussion whether 1000mg of test is better than 500mg.

Lastly, a passion for constantly incrementing the amount of Test in future cycles would be a silly obsession when there are the options of stacking and HGH use. That is, instead of going up to 1000mg of Test a week, one can stay at 500mg and stack it with another injectible and an oral AAS to get the desired results. On a more advanced level, HGH can be employed for prolonged periods of time throughout the year with or without AAS use.

**darkcrayz** · 06-10-2011, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by Turkish Juicer

The article posted above concentrates on a human study of 300mg vs 600mg of testosterone , not 500mg vs 1000mg.

There is a massive difference between scientific inquiry and generalizations; hence, leaping to a conclusion that more test leads to better results cannot be put forward without having a proper human study basis as a reference.

Thus, 300mg vs 600mg of testosterone cannot be made into a conclusive point of reference to a hypothetical discussion whether 1000mg of test is better than 500mg.

Lastly, a passion for constantly incrementing the amount of Test in future cycles would be a silly obsession when there are the options of stacking and HGH use. That is, instead of going up to 1000mg of Test a week, one can stay at 500mg and stack it with another injectible and an oral AAS to get the desired results. On a more advanced level, HGH can be employed for prolonged periods of time throughout the year with or without AAS use.

true but it still comes back to the same issue. he is now running 1000mg/week in both scenarios.

it would make more sense to have him run 250 test/week and another compound 250mg/week for a total of 500mg/week. and see if the stacking gives him the gains he is looking for without the sides.

running a 1000mg/week is still a 1000mg/week.

**Money** · 06-10-2011, 01:22 AM

I was using 4iu/day of HGH last year however my supplier all of a sudden became a thief after using him for a long time. My HGH supply was cut off for the moment. Will start on that again at the end of the year.

**buffgator** · 06-10-2011, 07:00 AM

Like i said i have ran both doses your talking about and saw no difference. Others swear by it. i know a guy who runs 2grams a week and has looked the exact same for years

**Slartbox** · 06-10-2011, 07:04 AM

1g a week is alot imo.
250 is enuff is stacked imo i guess it can depend on the person i do 250mg every 3 days on cycle and thats heaps imo

**oscarjones** · 06-10-2011, 07:34 AM

I have run 525mg/week Test Prop, and subsequently ran 350mg/week and saw much better results with the 525 dose.

To experiment I increased my dosage to 650 during the 525 course to see if more gains would come, and all I experienced was more sides, and not much additional advantage in regards to recovery or added muscle growth.

More isn't always better!

**Turkish Juicer** · 06-10-2011, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by oscarjones

I have run 525mg/week Test Prop, and subsequently ran 350mg/week and saw much better results with the 525 dose.

To experiment I increased my dosage to 650 during the 525 course to see if more gains would come, and all I experienced was more sides, and not much additional advantage in regards to recovery or added muscle growth.

More isn't always better!

^^^^ Exactly!

**Lemonada8** · 06-10-2011, 08:06 AM

Whew u saved me some time there TJ Thanks

**BSchmidt350z** · 06-10-2011, 12:09 PM

I do agree with the few above posts. I would personally NEVER run 1,000 Test solo.

Instead I would do 500 Test + 400 Deca or 500 Test + 400 Tren . or even Test + orals

**bjpennnn** · 06-10-2011, 02:13 PM

You guys are all missing the point get real if you do not think 1000mg of test is better then 750mg of test then something in your training, diet or sleep is off. These drugs work man...you think that your work ethic or diet or training all of a sudden is just better when taking gear? no its the steroids . I hate to break it to you guys. Now obviously if you have those in check you are going to get better in fact wayyyyy better results.

**buffgator** · 06-10-2011, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by bjpennnn

You guys are all missing the point get real if you do not think 1000mg of test is better then 750mg of test then something in your training, diet or sleep is off. These drugs work man...you think that your work ethic or diet or training all of a sudden is just better when taking gear? no its the steroids. I hate to break it to you guys. Now obviously if you have those in check you are going to get better in fact wayyyyy better results.

not true at all.......ill pm you a link where tom prince who was a famous bodybuilder talks about doses and says that some of the most mediocre bodybuilders he knows are taking the highest doses he's ever seen people take

**bjpennnn** · 06-10-2011, 02:47 PM

bro i will pm you a link were osama bin laden talks about how he likes to have sex with chickens....you missing the point. Tom Prince lol! dont get me started. Ya and jay cutler takes cell tech man thats it. I know people who take way more then me and look like shit as well...but if i take more i get bigger, and i know people who are the same. You can make an argument for anything but the truth is you take more gear you get bigger...i could get technical about it if you want but there is no need.

**bjpennnn** · 06-10-2011, 02:48 PM

and by the way a big fan of tom prince here

**BSchmidt350z** · 06-10-2011, 03:49 PM

and Jay Cutler lives around the block from me.

**Lemonada8** · 06-10-2011, 04:13 PM

i'd love some techinical reasons why 1g is better than 750. and for more than 2 lbs...

**bjpennnn** · 06-10-2011, 04:28 PM

thats not the point ^^^^ if he cant grow at 750 then 1000mg it is. At a certain point you cannot hold onto muscle so much pass your genetic limit without gear. Every parroted statement here that says its not better is just ridiculous. Is it healthier probably not but is it better for muscle of course it ****en is. open your eyes.

**bjpennnn** · 06-10-2011, 04:31 PM

He could drop the dose to 500mg and run a good dose of tren and make gains, but the questions was is there a difference. and if you have ran 500mg a week and then ran 1gram a week then you would know that yes there is a difference. Your telling me if you double your dose of test iit would be no different lol at you and your logic.

**buffgator** · 06-10-2011, 04:36 PM

im not parroting anything.....like I've said twice already i have almost exclusively ran test at 500mg per cycle for ten years, I've also ran it at 1000mg and I can't say with a surety i saw a difference. Like I've said already also some people swear by more and some don't. i guess im just cheating myself by not taking more than average moderate doses. Really though if your so smart show us proof that the more you take the more you grow.

**bjpennnn** · 06-10-2011, 04:38 PM

Proof is i was 19 years old at 190-200lbs at 5-6 with trash diet eating carls junior burger king anything i wanted. You just sound so dumb at the moment. read what you are saying. honestly.

**bjpennnn** · 06-10-2011, 04:41 PM

please tell me what makes us different from the people that go to the gym everyday that do not use...lets see here its steroids . So why do we make huge jumps and they do not when we have been working out the same amount of time....steroids. If you put three peopel with the exact genetics food money training intensity everything on a w workout routine and you had one person take nothing the other person take 50mmg of test and one take 1 gram i guarantee the biggest person would be the guy taking 1 gram of test. 2ND lets think about this the guy taking 500mg and last the one taking nothing. Its common sense your very much over thinking the topic.

**bjpennnn** · 06-10-2011, 04:44 PM

There is no substitute for hard work, a spot on diet and getting good sleep...but the fact is steroids work and thats why we take them.

**buffgator** · 06-10-2011, 04:45 PM

No really dont dodge the question.....show me the scientific proof.

**buffgator** · 06-10-2011, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by bjpennnn

There is no substitute for hard work, a spot on diet and getting good sleep...but the fact is steroids work and thats why we take them.

Im not debating that they work, im just saying that theres a thresh hold which taking beyond that doest give any better gains

**bjpennnn** · 06-10-2011, 04:48 PM

LOL! dude you are ridiculous. you should be put in the hall of shame for some of the quotes. I am done talking here. Any veteran of the sport any mod on here will tell you i am correct. I do not see why you are even arguing this with me. You have been on here since 2001 and you are trying to have this discussion. Do you work out at planet fitness?