Looking into Orals

**Christobear** · 06-29-2011, 04:01 PM

First post here guys so take it easy on me. First, stats
Age: 23
Height: 5'8
Weight: 170 +/-2
BF: ~12%
Experience: I started lifting light weights when I was about 15.
I lifted moderate-heavy (for me) weights to support swimming and water polo through high school.
I've been lifting simply for the sake of lifting since age 19.

Diet: Its hard to keep it consistent as I am still in college, but I eat a ton of chicken and vegetables, protein shakes daily (Casein and Whey). Estimated 2500-3000 cals a day (but I admit its not always good cals)

Goals: I'm generally pretty happy with the amount of muscle mass I have, but getting a little bigger would be nice. Mostly, I want to get stronger (and keep the strength) and more cut.

At least to start off with, I'm a little apprehensive about doing a needle and would prefer to get my feet wet with a milder oral (one thats not going to kill my kidneys). From what I have read, Provironum, Winny, Primo, and Anavar seem to fit my goals

So some questions;
Would any of these help me accomplish my goals?
Would I need a PCT (I have read that people use Provi as a PCT)?
Would I need to stack any with test?
I read somewhere about dissolving Primo in dimethylsulfoxyde and water and absorbing it through the skin....is this legitimate?
Lastly, when sites say that Dianabol , for example, is highly toxic to the kidneys, how does this compare to say, drinking excessive amounts of alcohol? Basically, how bad is it for you in reality?

Any input/help would be greatly appreciated, I'm not exactly sitting at my computer with my credit car out gunning to get roided up....If i do this, i want to do it right and for it to be effective

**ACE5HIGH** · 06-29-2011, 04:19 PM

Any orals are going to be hard on the liver, especially some you have listed!

Orals are never a good cycle, and your still a little young to cycle. Why dont you shoot over to the supplement forum and look into some solid supplements...? People underestimate solid supplement cycles.

**Christobear** · 06-29-2011, 09:38 PM

i've heard from several sources that orals alone are not a good cycle. Does this simply mean that it will not be as effective as a needle or is it actually worse for your body?
I'm not looking to turn into Arnold...

**ACE5HIGH** · 06-29-2011, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Christobear

i've heard from several sources that orals alone are not a good cycle. Does this simply mean that it will not be as effective as a needle or is it actually worse for your body?

Both

**charliemurphy229** · 06-30-2011, 12:47 AM

orals are very tough on the liver, look into getting a liver supplement like UDCA.

**ACE5HIGH** · 06-30-2011, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by charliemurphy229

orals are very tough on the liver, look into getting a liver supplement like UDCA.

Or he could just skip the oral cycle altogether thats going to wreak havoc on his liver. He's too young to be using AAS in any event...

**Honkey_Kong** · 07-01-2011, 03:14 AM

OP, you said it yourself, your diet sucks. You think buying some gear is going to fix that problem? Orals are rough on the liver and you still need an injectable testosterone base. In all seriousness, you'll have the best benefits by taking that money you were going to spend on gear and going to Costco with it.

I'll teach you the key to buying food. Plan every ****ing meal out before you go to the store. If you're a broke student (as I was), setup a budget and use coupons.

**borkach** · 07-01-2011, 07:02 AM

do Tbol 30-50mgs ed , its not that toxic and you get good lbm gain and great strength gains. you would need pct, but nothing serious just nolva.

if you keep your oral cycle not longer than 6 weeks, and dont drunk alcohol or antibiotics or any other shit, your liver and kidneys should be fine. Just to be safe though you should also run a liver support supplement.

**ACE5HIGH** · 07-01-2011, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by borkach

do Tbol 30-50mgs ed , its not that toxic and you get good lbm gain and great strength gains. you would need pct, but nothing serious just nolva.

if you keep your oral cycle not longer than 6 weeks, and dont drunk alcohol or antibiotics or any other shit, your liver and kidneys should be fine. Just to be safe though you should also run a liver support supplement.

Why are you even advising a 23 yr old to run an oral cycle?? OP - as said above get you diet in check first, your not ready for aas, especially a crappy oral cycle.

**Granovich** · 07-01-2011, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by ACE5HIGH

Why are you even advising a 23 yr old to run an oral cycle?? OP - as said above get you diet in check first, your not ready for aas, especially a crappy oral cycle.

23 years old is not young !!!!
he is in good age. those 2 years that u talking about from 23 to 24 or 25 arent gonna make big difference
but i think he needs to know more about AAS as in compounds and doses and side effects. thats it.
i cant believe how people recommend a guy who is 25 and has been lifting 1 year to use and they dont recommend guy who is 23 and has been working out for 8 years. AWKWARD

**Times Roman** · 07-01-2011, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Granovich;5683***

23 years old is not young !!!!he is in good age. those 2 years that u talking about from 23 to 24 or 25 arent gonna make big difference
but i think he needs to know more about AAS as in compounds and doses and side effects. thats it.
i cant believe how people recommend a guy who is 25 and has been lifting 1 year to use and they dont recommend guy who is 23 and has been working out for 8 years. AWKWARD

Yeah, so says the guy that is 22 years old. So instead of giving bad advice based on your total lack of knowledge about bodily development and how premature use of aas impacts a developing hormonal system, maybe YOU should educate yourself first?

Your glaring lack of knowledge is apparent to those of use who have been around a while and actually do know a few things.

**Granovich** · 07-01-2011, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

Yeah, so says the guy that is 22 years old. So instead of giving bad advice based on your total lack of knowledge about bodily development and how premature use of aas impacts a developing hormonal system, maybe YOU should educate yourself first?

Your glaring lack of knowledge is apparent to those of use who have been around a while and actually do know a few things.

im 23 soon will be 24 sir not 22. but when i made the account i put wrong date by mistake 1 year younger. and my knowledge is 6 years of daily researching so i kind of know
and my cuzin is a guy who competes at 24 and he is very big guy and u can add him on facebook and see for ur self.and he is perfectly fine married and has kids. and my father was a professional bodybuilder in Russia, so i have real life experience not theoretical
if u want i can send u pic of my driving licence so you can check the date of birth lol. and learn some manners
i guess you didnt learn while you were a kid

**ScotchGuard02** · 07-02-2011, 06:53 AM

If a 10 year old took steroids the chances that he'll mess himself up is, in my opinion, very high. A 15 year old? Still high but less then the 10 year old. A 20 year old? Still less then the 15 year old, etc. There is a statistical chance that AAS will affect your endo system negatively the younger you are. My interpretation of the 25 year old guideline is that through empirical data a good body of this forum, including very knowledgeable vets, agree that 25 is a good balance between risk and reward. Look, anyone any age can cycle steroids. They just jab a pin and done. What the board is recommending is safety. It is safer to start at 25 then 23. You obviously don't agree. If I was advising a friend I'd say start at 25.