Finally time to ask a question. A very LONG question.

**Supertotal** · 06-30-2011, 06:40 AM

Greetings. I'm here because I've always wanted to be a beast, even a beast among beasts, and its a miracle I made it through 5 solid years of brutal lifting before I finally touched a drug.

I've been a competitive powerlifter for some time in the USAPL and an Olympic lifter in the USAW for around 3 to 4 years (please excuse me if I'm being vague, LOL). I've done pretty well in both while clean, and though I think I should be able to continue lifting in both sports while on the sauce (which is a whole other topic) I've decided to quit both sports and go really crazy.

I've been lifting roughly 6 years, and tried my first cycle last fall. Went 11 weeks on 80mg Anavar a day, skipped the PCT for specific reasons though tried to save it and started cranking fistfuls of test-boosters after a month off, which seemed to work. Luckily, I've always had ridiculously high natural test levels. If an Anavar-only cycle can give me the frankly insane results I got, then I shudder to think about what the more potent drugs will do for me.

My question: I'm in my early 30's, 5'9" and currently about 220-225lbs. Body fat is around 10-11%, I can see my serratus on a good day, LOL. I honestly think I hadn't reached my natural strength limits at the time I started my cycle, though gains were slowing. I'm too paranoid to post my lifts, but my 'supertotal' (squat/bench/deadlift/snatch/clean and jerk) is just a hair under 2400lbs, done at a slightly higher body weight than I am right now. Its actually quite a bit higher, but that's the number without all the supportive equipment (shirt, wraps, suit - three other reasons why I quit the sport, LOL).

How much can I expect to gain now that I'm taking the real deal? I'm a skilled lifter, there isn't much to gain from improved technique, in the strength lifts anyways. So actual strength gains should be very easy to quantify. What will 4-5 years of steroid use give to lifting gains? 15%? 20%? 25%? more? lots more?

I think this is going to be fun.

**Str8Jakked** · 06-30-2011, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Supertotal

How much can I expect to gain now that I'm taking the real deal? I'm a skilled lifter, there isn't much to gain from improved technique, in the strength lifts anyways. So actual strength gains should be very easy to quantify. What will 4-5 years of steroid use give to lifting gains? 15%? 20%? 25%? more? lots more?

You cannot put a definitive number on it, there are still variables to consider- the main 2 being Diet and the Cycle Compounds/Cycle Lengths.

Since you are a skilled lifter though, there are no boundaries to the gains that you can achieve if everything else is dialed in.

**Windex** · 06-30-2011, 08:39 AM

Not to offend you, but I'd like to call bs and see a picture of yourself at 225 lbs @ 10% bodyfat holding up a piece of paper with your user name on it. You can whiteout your face and tattoos if you want. If you deliver I will respectfully apologize. It's not that I think those stats you've provided are unfathomable by any means it's just there has been a recent influx of people who make accounts, give their real stats, get told they are not ready to cycle, then make a new account and become Pinocchio.

**Minion0812** · 06-30-2011, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Windex

Not to offend you, but I'd like to call bs and see a picture of yourself at 225 lbs @ 10% bodyfat holding up a piece of paper with your user name on it. You can whiteout your face and tattoos if you want. If you deliver I will respectfully apologize. It's not that I think those stats you've provided are unfathomable by any means it's just there has been a recent influx of people who make accounts, give their real stats, get told they are not ready to cycle, then make a new account and become Pinocchio.

Haha love it!!

**Granovich** · 06-30-2011, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Windex

Not to offend you, but I'd like to call bs and see a picture of yourself at 225 lbs @ 10% bodyfat holding up a piece of paper with your user name on it. You can whiteout your face and tattoos if you want. If you deliver I will respectfully apologize. It's not that I think those stats you've provided are unfathomable by any means it's just there has been a recent influx of people who make accounts, give their real stats, get told they are not ready to cycle, then make a new account and become Pinocchio.

very disrespectful i would say
some people need to learn how to respect others

**Windex** · 06-30-2011, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Granovich

very disrespectful i would say
some people need to learn how to respect others

I am not being disrespectful nor rude I am making an honest request. I'd kill to have the stats he mentioned. As previously said, a lot of people come on this board and give their real stats (including age) then don't like what they are told (too light, too young, too high bodyfat%, diet needs work, etc) so they make a new account and make up stats to get the information they were searching for (usually cycle help).

**Supertotal** · 06-30-2011, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Str8Jakked

You cannot put a definitive number on it, there are still variables to consider- the main 2 being Diet and the Cycle Compounds/Cycle Lengths.

Since you are a skilled lifter though, there are no boundaries to the gains that you can achieve if everything else is dialed in.

My diet is good. How that compares to some of the diet freaks on a training forum I don't know, but its good. It could be better obviously, but I'm pretty much at a point where its not going to significantly improve. I definitely eat enough protein, and I definitely know how to gain LBM. I'm not looking for any more size or composition really, just looking to boost the numbers in both sports. I'm also not interested in abusing anything. While my first cycle was less than mild... I only went up to 80mg because I've heard so much about under-dosing, and the stuff I was using was underground labs stuff... I'm still not looking to use crazy doses, or big stacks. If Anavar did what it did for me, and its considered 'mild' or even 'weak', then a 500 dose of test per week should be insane. I'm only using this stuff to supplement my training.

'No boundaries' you say? Wouldn't that be nice!

**Supertotal** · 06-30-2011, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by Granovich

very disrespectful i would say
some people need to learn how to respect others

LOL. No kidding. Maybe wait until I ask one of the ubiquitous stupid questions that those 'Pinocchios' ask before calling BS. In fact, it's telling that you jump all over my stats and call BS yet say nothing of my lifts. You can go to any gym in any decent sized town/city and see three guys with stats like that. How many steroid -abusing teenagers even know what a supertotal is? or have even done a squat before? I'd wager that if they did know what the five classic lifts are and how to do them they wouldn't need to think about steroids .

**Catch** · 06-30-2011, 09:25 PM

This board is funny. It doesn't matter who you are, how long you've been lifting, how strong or ripped you are or how great your diet is. Someone is going to have something negative to say. Dorian and Ronnie could come on here under an alias and someone would shit on them.

I understand that this forum gets a shit TON of newbs who just aren't ready, but if you read through all of the "want to start my first cycle" posts. I'll bet there is a 99.9% rate of, "do some research, idiot," or "you need this and that and that and this first," when 99.9% of the people replying weren't ready when they started either. It's cool to try to help newbs understand what they need and try to teach them the mistakes others have made, but what people need to realize is that those newbs are most likely going to do it anyway. So, why not help them instead of putting them on blast?

I do sense a bit of jealousy on Windex's part because 5'9", 225, 10% is insane. I'd like to see some pics of that myself, but I'm not gonna call BS.

OP, you said you made some insane gains on Anavar . Can you quantify those for us? Was it size or strength or what?

**Supertotal** · 06-30-2011, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Catch

This board is funny. It doesn't matter who you are, how long you've been lifting, how strong or ripped you are or how great your diet is. Someone is going to have something negative to say. Dorian and Ronnie could come on here under an alias and someone would shit on them.

I understand that this forum gets a shit TON of newbs who just aren't ready, but if you read through all of the "want to start my first cycle" posts. I'll bet there is a 99.9% rate of, "do some research, idiot," or "you need this and that and that and this first," when 99.9% of the people replying weren't ready when they started either. It's cool to try to help newbs understand what they need and try to teach them the mistakes others have made, but what people need to realize is that those newbs are most likely going to do it anyway. So, why not help them instead of putting them on blast?

I do sense a bit of jealousy on Windex's part because 5'9", 225, 10% is insane. I'd like to see some pics of that myself, but I'm not gonna call BS.

OP, you said you made some insane gains on Anavar. Can you quantify those for us? Was it size or strength or what?

Let me add a little more to the pot. I never do cardio, ever, except to maybe walk a mile most days of the week, and that's only because I'll never drive anywhere I can walk. That, and my 'good' diet still includes not so occasional french fries, bacon-cheeseburgers, baked goods, and beer... though I'm not a big drinker. I could never be a bodybuilder. You just gain a lot of LBM when you do these two sports, especially at a National level, and very especially when you don't let yourself get fat like most do. Olympic lift 5 days a week, squat 6 days a week, bench and deadlift twice a week, hit arms and other stuff twice a week. Do that for 5 years, eat to 'lean bulk' the whole time and see what happens to your body composition.

To be honest, I did say 220-225 and 10-11%. It was more like 10% at 220 and 11% at 225, but its also surprising how much of a difference that makes, in aesthetics and performance. I'll take the latter.

Speaking of gains on Anavar , I'm going to be vague here for obvious reasons, but it far exceeded my expectations, which were mostly based off what I read on forums. I put around 125lbs on my bench and squat combined, my other lifts went through the roof. I didn't really push my Olympic lifts at that time, but they were both up at least 20lbs. Unfortunately, I didn't test my deadlift until after I'd been off for a while. My weight didn't change much, but my body fat percentage dropped like a stone. Went from having vague abs at 230-235 before to seeing my serratus at 235 consistently by the end. I honestly would have continued the cycle at that point, until the gains stopped coming, but I'd depleted my supply and buying more would have meant switching brands.

**5x10** · 06-30-2011, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Catch

This board is funny. It doesn't matter who you are, how long you've been lifting, how strong or ripped you are or how great your diet is. Someone is going to have something negative to say. Dorian and Ronnie could come on here under an alias and someone would shit on them.

I understand that this forum gets a shit TON of newbs who just aren't ready, but if you read through all of the "want to start my first cycle" posts. I'll bet there is a 99.9% rate of, "do some research, idiot," or "you need this and that and that and this first," when 99.9% of the people replying weren't ready when they started either. It's cool to try to help newbs understand what they need and try to teach them the mistakes others have made, but what people need to realize is that those newbs are most likely going to do it anyway. So, why not help them instead of putting them on blast?

well said

**songdog** · 07-01-2011, 01:10 PM

Well those are some good stats.Var is good for fat loss and strength.And yes People do need to do research.Why on earth would you want to put something in your body and not know how it can affect you.That is just plain STUPID.Why advise a person who has lil or no lifting experence.Just so he can hurt his tendon legaments and joints.Beacuse he is lifting weights heavier than his body can handle.Why give a under age kid advise on cycling so he can mess himself up.Maybe never be able to have kids.Then the kids parents look on his computer.And see where he got his advise.Then we make the news for this stuff.So while you may not agree with wat we do.There is a reason.Just think of some guy with your brains giving your 18yr old son advise on cycles.Then he has ED problems.Wat would you think then Catch?

**Supertotal** · 07-02-2011, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by songdog

Well those are some good stats.Var is good for fat loss and strength.

Thanks. I wont pretend I don't care about aesthetics. I have done better than most without really trying, though genetics played a big part. There is always still that last layer of fat that wont shed, and while I'm not a bodybuilder and really don't care much about how it all looks, its difficult not to want to see that last little big of fat go away, if only because I am so freakin' close. Dropping another 1-2% shouldn't affect my performance THAT much. Maybe the drugs will do that for me.

Back on topic now - Does no one else have an opinion about the original question?