dosage reduction?

hey all,
i have question regarding doages after a major cycle.

ive been on close to 45 weeks, and im coming up on my last 15 week block, with fairly high doses. my plan was and is to come off after this 15 weeks, and stay off for 4-6 months.(after clomid and hcg therapy).

my question is this: if i stay off this amount of time(whether its 4 or 6 months) when i go back on would i be able to reduce the dosages and still get a decent run out of it? im not talking about 200mg of this or that, more like 500/400 of 2 compounds only......or do you guys think i will have to crank it back up to get decent results?

if you have a personal experience you can relate in regards to this, thats great. if you have an opinion, i'll listen to those as well. any scientific data is ALWAYS appreciated.

peace bb79

I have never had a problem going from a high dosage cycle to a lower dosage cycle after recovery and still getting gains. I don't personally feel and have never seen any support for the theory that prior cycle amounts change the effectiveness of later cycles. The factors of age, setpoint, and where you are in terms of genetic potential are what really effect dosages needed. Don't expect to see the results you did on high dosages for obvious reasons.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Rickson
I have never had a problem going from a high dosage cycle to a lower dosage cycle after recovery and still getting gains. I don't personally feel and have never seen any support for the theory that prior cycle amounts change the effectiveness of later cycles. The factors of age, setpoint, and where you are in terms of genetic potential are what really effect dosages needed. Don't expect to see the results you did on high dosages for obvious reasons.

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I agree,,,I did high dosages for long peroid of time before and went to lowwer dosages on the next cycle, the gains where OK, but who wants OK gains after experenceing GOOD gains with a higher dosages, so I ended up staying at a high dosage weather I did long cycles or short cycles.
I found the magic number of mgs per week that kept sides down for me.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Rickson
I have never had a problem going from a high dosage cycle to a lower dosage cycle after recovery and still getting gains. I don't personally feel and have never seen any support for the theory that prior cycle amounts change the effectiveness of later cycles. The factors of age, setpoint, and where you are in terms of genetic potential are what really effect dosages needed. Don't expect to see the results you did on high dosages for obvious reasons.

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rickson,
thanks for the reply. while i understand where youre coming from on the "high going to low" issue, i would like you to elaborate a little more if you dont mind.
i think the general mindset is that upping the dosages would just be a standard that we have to live with if we want to keep growing. i might be an exception to that rule, as im getting to the point where i think i might be big enough......(is that considered blasphemy around here?) and my cycles in the near future(at least for a little while) will be more of the strength and cutting variety.
i also agree that age, and genetic potential play a huge role, but this brings me back to my original question......with me being older, i might have to keep the dosages fairly high, no matter what i use, just to see decent results.
thoughts..........anyone?

peace bb79

bump...........

once only.


peace bb79

i agree with the idea that since you're older and experienced in cycling you should need higher doses. (in theory) im not old enough to have personal experience with this. i have gone from 600 mgs of sust a week with 425 mg of deca down to 500 mgs of sust and 300 deca, and saw very similar results. i think my age may play a role though. my natural test is still quite high even when off. i think the issue boils down to how each different persons body responds to such and such dosage of any given AS.

First off, I want to say your forgiven for your blasphemous statement :D

Are you asking if the lower dose will maintain your mass or are you looking for gains?

JohnnyB

I think Johnny asked the right question. If you are looking to maintain muscle while cutting or hoping to add some strength you can do it on fairly low dosages. If you want to actually grow then it depends on how much you lose when you come off and whether you have reached your genetic potential. If you feel you have reached or are near your genetic limit and you have been on for 60 weeks then when you come off for six months you are going to lose some size no matter how good your post cycle is thought out. Once you reach a set point where your body is able to maintain while off then any reasonable amount of AAS (1 gram total) should allow for some growth and easy maintainance while cutting. Arnold is a great example of what you can expect. You can stay big and ripped but you can't keep the size you had while doing large dosages. Terminator as compared to T2 and consider that is with the best genetics humanly possible.

BB79,

I agree with what Rickson already stated above however, I think you may just have to try and experiment to find out if this will work for you.

I don't think you'll have problems making gains on a lower dose just be sure to keep everything else in check (nutrition, training, recovery).
If worse comes to worse you could always up the dose slowly to see exactly what will work for you.

Also I'd like to know what type of gear you'll use on this cycle and how it will differ from what you're presently "on".

The more I think about this question the deeper it goes, there are really a whole lot of variables that will affect the out come of this. Are you going to try manipulate your diet and training to corespond with this cycle and if so how?

When you finally get around to this I hope you'll keep us posted on your results.

xxxl83

That's a good point Rickson. It would depend on how far passed his genetic potential he is. I believe that with bb79 being on for that amount of time his body should be acclimated to most if not all of the weight. At least that's the theory for my long cycle 42 weeks.

Now what do you think about what his dose amount on these last 15 weeks. If he brings it down to the 900mg-1000mg a week level and maintains or add weight. Would that help his body(muscle memory) for when he starts up again in 4-6 months. In other words if his body gets used to carry that weight or adding at that dose, will it respond to it again, in the 4-6 months.

JohnnyB

Quote:

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Originally posted by xxxl83
BB79,
The more I think about this question the deeper it goes, there are really a whole lot of variables that will affect the out come of this. xxxl83

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Isn't that the turth. I guees bb79 is going to be the test case;)

JohnnyB

gee,
thanks guys........now i have more questions than answers....hehe.

jb is correct, the whole purpose of this cycle im on now was to try and adjust my bodyweight setpoint to accept the new mass added, and keep most if not all of it. i dont come off this cycle for another 15 weeks or so, but i'll definitely keep everyone posted as to how it goes present/post cycle. i'll be off for quite a while too, so if i run into recovery problems, i'll post that as well.
after spending this much time doing aas, i think i know what works for me, and what dosent dosage wise, at least on the high end of it. its been a long time since ive been under 1600-2000mg a week.
there were a couple of 10 week blocks in this current cycle where i lowered the dosages drastically, but that was planned into it, and i had just come off a high end block.
i guess this is the bottom line............i would only want to maintain with the lower doses, thats the goal. maybe drop some b.f. and add a FEW lean lbs, but i wouldnt be too awful dissapointed if i just dropped b.f and maintained my current weight, along with keeping my strength up.

xxxl83,
theres one thing you need to know about me right now.........my diet and training are spot on 99% of the time.(depending on what my goals are) i'm extremely hard on myself in this area, as johnnyb well knows already.
as for what aas i'll use on this cycle coming up, i have no idea yet bro. i will research heavily, and make some decisions based on that research.
i can say this though....i used just about everything under the sun on the current cycle, in varying dosages.

thanks to all who responded, you guys really have my attention now, and i'm thinking heavily about all the variables that xxxl mentioned.
feel free to add anything else......maybe we can discuss those variables a little?

peace bb79

coming off after that long will probably be hard, especialy if your older.
It might seem crazy, but i start clomid a week early and find that it works to get me moving faster in the natural test level section. after you get into your last week, dosages are moving down in the body, and continuously (3 times a day) putting clomid helped despite the anabolics that were still there. *clomid doesnt NOT work just because theres juice there :) JMHO and experiences

5-6 months off, you'll have great gains from probably a basic fina/prop cycle or fina/prop/var combo. take your ZMA!

good luck

i.h.
ive given a lot of thought on starting the clomid early, as ive seen and heard of guys doing this with good results going into post cycle. i'm already running the clomid for a minimum of 5 weeks at a fairly heavy dose for more than half of that time.
i believe theres a post on this very subject somewhere here on the board now.
whats with the zma bro? fill me in.........

peace bb79

Is it almost over already? It only seems like yesterday that you and I were kicking this run around.

Honestly, I think that if you are off 6 months, this should help in cleaning your receptors out a bit so you can respond to lower doses.

Couple of thoughts to think about though:

You are in your early 40's, therefore, your natural test levels get lower each year. I'm not sure your effects will be as good running a long acting test at a low dose. (400-500mg's) I think you are stuck around 600 when it comes to Enathate, etc, etc....

Another thing I would think about is that if you are not looking to get any bigger and you want to just maintain and cut, you may want to consider your next run to be a Prop/Winny/Tren for 8 weeks.

I say this because (I have no scientific proof here) if you are off for let's say 4 months and then run this short cutting cycle. Then take another month or two off, that would put you around 8 months without running any slow acting esters. (Deca, EQ, etc, etc...) Therefore, if and when you decided to run them again your body will have to readjust to them. Thus allowing you to run a lower doseage.

Does this make any sense at all or am I rambling? :unsure:


D

**BTW, I miss these types of threads.**

One other thing.....

Have you gotten any blood work done while on this run?
If so, I am curious to see what the results looked like.

D

diesel,
i have had bloodwork done throughout this cycle. i always do, no matter what the length. unfortunately i dont have the info handy anymore, so you'll have to wait until i go again. all i can say(from what i remember from my last visit), is that none of the numbers were out of line except the free testosterone ones, and thats to be expected......

i like the little plan you layed out here brother, and it will definitely be considered. we need to speak more about this, but i'll keep it to pm's as i think this thread is fading.

peace IFL79

i have to say this is a very interesting thread. The final answer, of course, is doing a certain amount and seeing how your body responds. With as much experience as you have, you'd know if you were "on' the correct dosages. At least for me, anyway, I can feel if I need to up it, until I've found levels that I'm happy with.