anavar only cycle-counterproductive?

**longhorn1** · 07-16-2011, 02:43 AM

on my 12th day of anavar only cycle(30mg ed). thought this stuff was not suppose to inhibit your nat test as much as other gear. as i sit here, my nuts ache and i think are getting smaller. im no brain surgeon, but im thinkin im shutting down. at this point i dont think its worth the risk to keep up this cycle as i do think my test levels are on the decline & i feel that in the weeks to come, it will just get worse. at this point i(think) have 3 choices-
1)stop now after 12 days w/ no pct(do i need a pct after only 2 weeks?)and hope i recover
2)stop and start clomid or nov
3)continue and add some test for 6 weeks til end of anavar cycle

did not want to do any test as im prone to hairloss and do not want any sides, but anavar only and no test i hear, is no picnic. should i go get a blood test to check the test levels asap?

trying to lean out for summer and not gain much weight- just maintain, get lean, hard and strong.
workouts and diet are good and thought anavar was what i needed to get to be where i wanted
36
5'11
190
15% bf
was hoping for 190@9%
nat test was 415 2 weeks ago-590 2 mos ago
your thoughts?

**MR-FQ320** · 07-16-2011, 03:14 AM

My thoughts are, that you Sir are an idiot. How much research did you do ? about 5 minutes by the look of where you are right now !

Out of the three above options which compounds do you have right now or can get relatively quickly ?

your goals are impossible in that time frame with those chosen compounds.

I think a lot of the guys here would say stop the cycle and get some PCT and start to educate yourself fully about AAS and any compounds you are intrested in.

**longhorn1** · 07-16-2011, 03:54 AM

actually have done alot of reading on anavar for years as i have been interested in it. an idiot? i've looked at every different site that has anavar's steriod profile-does not impact hpta at low doses, lean muscle, no hairloss,no estrogen,ability to keep most gains post cycle. not anywhere in the profile did it say will shut you down-ADD TEST!.-do not do alone. the 100's of forum searches on sites like this one looking up anavar and people saying how great it was-but would "only" recommend adding test. most say after 6-8 weeks no pct is needed as the others say take it. im prone to hairloss and did not want to take test or deal with any other nasty sides. my workouts are great, diet is on point and i guess the anavar was too good to be true, at least running it by itself for me. i do have clomid and nova but no test, could prob get quickly. my only real interest was anavar and will have to educate myself on test as i do not know all their is to know. for me to have a way low test level now, is unknown without bloodwork. did not say it was gone yet as my libido is still there and im not lethargic-just sayin i dont want to deal with it and posted to ask people that are more expeirienced than me for advice. its impossible get leaner,harder or stronger off anavar with 30-60 mg ed for 6-8 weeks?

**bert003** · 07-16-2011, 06:01 AM

read the below longhorn1...

Some steroids only REDUCE TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION(to varying degrees), whereas other steroids will SHUTDOWN the HPTA resulting in a complete cessation of androgen production.

*NOT ALL ANDROGENS CAUSE SHUTDOWN*

"Shutdown", is defined by a COMPLETE inhibition of the Pituitary/Testes, resulting in a TOTAL cessation of endogenous androgen production.

SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Turinabol , Anavar , Halotestin , Wistrol, Equipoise , Dianabol , Masteron , Primobolan )

Very Androgenic /Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Trenbolone , Nandrolone , Anadrol , Testosterone) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.

The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier recovery!

The Following steroids will NOT SHUTDOWN THE HPTA:

Turinabol, Anavar, Proviron , Halotestin, Wistrol, Equipoise, Dianabol, Masteron, Primobolan, Clostebol, and 4-ADiol.

Pre-PCT: PRE-PCT allows the HPTA to begin LH/FSH output, while still receiving additional anabolic support. This is the peroid of time where we utilize a NON-inhibitory steroid while the endogenous testosterone level begins to recover. This occurs PRIOR TO FULL PCT, so that by the time we begin full PCT the HPTA has already began recovering.

Active RECOVERY: The HPTA BEGINS to restore endogenous testosterone production once it detects the body's androgen level beginning to decline(end of cycle).

Therefore, HPTA CAN BEGIN TO RECOVER WHILE STILL IN AN ANABOLIC STATE!

The following drugs can be used during Active Recovery:

Anavar/Proviron= 40mgs/25mgs
Anavar/Masteron= 40mgs/300mgs
Primobolan/Masteron= 300mgs/300mgs
Turinabol/Proviron= 40mgs/25mgs
Turinabol/Masteron= 40mgs/300mgs
Winstrol /Masteron= 50mgs/300mgs
Dianabol/Proviron= 15mgs/25mgs
Dianabol/Masteron= 15mgs/300mgs

Examples...

In a SHORT CYCLE:
Weeks 1-4: Testosterone Propionate , 100mgs ED
Weeks 1-4: Dianabol, 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-4: NPP, 400mgs
Weeks 4-8: **PRE-PCT(ACTIVE RECOVERY)**
Weeks 8-?: **POST CYCLE THERAPY **

A Standard Cycle:
Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 30mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Testosterone Enanthate , 500mgs
Weeks 8-12: Winstrol, 100mgs ED
Weeks 12-16: **PRE-PCT(ACTIVE RECOVERY) **
Weeks 16-26: **POST CYCLE THERAPY**

DO NOT end your cycle ABRUPTLY! Don't just END your cycle cold-turkey! If you are SHUTDOWN, full restoration can take weeks and even MONTHS. Therefore, one should REMAIN ON minimally-inhibitive STEROIDS(HPTA) in an attempt to MAINTAIN the gains they made while ON CYCLE, while STILL BEGINNING TO RECOVER TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION. On top of that, one still continues to progess from the mild additional anabolic support.

NOT only does it mean that you can run a COMPLETE CYCLE with NO SHUTDOWN whatsoever(as long as the right compounds, dosages, and durations are used), it also means that if you ARE SHUTDOWN from your cycle, you do NOT HAVE TO COME RIGHT OFF CYCLE! Actually, it is BETTER TO STAY ON CYCLE WHILE YOUR ENDOGENOUS TESTOSTERONE LEVEL BEGINS TO INCREASE!

You may also run a cycle that COMPLETELY AVOIDS SHUTDOWN:

Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 40mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Anavar, 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Masteron, 100mgs EOD

Or

Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 40mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Primobolan, 500mgs
Weeks 6-14: Turinabol, 60mgs ED

And Many many more! There are tons of NON-inhibitory cycles that you can devise using my my list above for your guideline. Your days of HPTA suffering are over!

By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.

The Hypothalamus has Androgen, Estrogen, and Progesterone receptors.

Each and EVERY anabolic steroid affects these receptors DIFFERENTLY.

Some steroids affect ALL receptors, while some only affect ONE type of receptor, while others have very little effect on ANY of these receptors.

UNDERSTANDING WHICH steroids affect which receptors, and to WHAT DEGREE, will FULLY enable the steroid user to COMPLETELY and systematically AVOID HPTA SHUTDOWN!

By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.

Steroids that cause an OVERSATURATION(too many receptors activated) of these various hormone receptors, WILL CAUSE SHUTDOWN.

Steroids that DO NOT CAUSE an OVERSATURATION of ANY of these various hormone receptors, will NOT cause SHUTDOWN!

The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate ESTROGEN receptors, to varying degrees:

Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone

The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate PROGESTERONE receptors, to varying degrees:

Nandrolone
Trenbolone
Oxymetholone

The Following drugs activate Androgen receptors, to varying degrees:

Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone
Trenbolone
Halotestin
Oxandrolone
Stanzolol
Chlorodehydromethltestosterone
Methyltestosterone
Methenolone...
(ALL AAS*)

As we can see, the steroids that cause HPTA SHUTDOWN either OVERSATURATE ONE SPECIFIC receptor, or they activate too many TOTAL receptors(Androgen/Estrogen/Progesterone)

For instance, Trenbolone causes HPTA SHUTDOWN because it OVERSATURATES BOTH, the ANDROGEN and the PROGESTERONE receptors.

Testosterone causes SHUTDOWN because it converts to ESTROGEN and DHT, therefore, it oversaturates the Androgen/Estrogen receptors.

As we can ALSO SEE, the steroids that DO NOT cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA, do NOT oversaturate ANY of the different hormone receptors, and thus, do NOT cause SHUTDOWN.

Methenolone(Primobolan) does not possess ANY Estrogenic or Progestational ACTIVITY WHATSOEVER. It does, by virtue of being an anabolic steroid, posses a SMALL Androgenic component. Because it lacks ANY ESTROGENIC/PROGESTATIONAL component, and it lacks a strong Androgenic component, it WILL NOT CAUSE SHUTDOWN!

Oxandrolone(Anavar) posseses NO Estrogenic/Progestational component either. AND, it also lacks a strong androgenic component. Thus, Anavar will NOT cause shutdown.

By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.

*It must also be noted, that ANY steroid in LARGE enough DOSAGES for long enough DURATIONS, can cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA.

NOT ALL ANDROGENS CAUSE SHUTDOWN*

"Shutdown", is defined by a COMPLETE inhibition of the Pituitary/Testes, resulting in a TOTAL cessation of endogenous androgen production.

SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Tbol, Var, Wistrol, EQ, Dianabol, masteron, proviron, halo, primo)

Very Androgenic/Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Tren , Deca , Drol, Test) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.

The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier PCT.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.Related Articles, Links

Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone , estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased. Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL. There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH. Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged. In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH. Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.

**MR-FQ320** · 07-16-2011, 07:21 AM

Ok so we are where we are, if you had have asked for advice on this cycle before you started it, the usual response would have been add some test in there , probably prop, and bump the var up to 60mg.

The goal of being harder, leaner and stronger is possiblewith test and var in eight weeks, I doubt dropping 6% bf to single digit bf while maintaining the same bodyweight is possible, in my experience anyway.

So where do we go from here? Ultimately it's your decision, you might not agree with my opinion, but if it were me I would get some test prop and go 100 mg EOD and double up the var when it arrives, until then stay with the 30mg ED. That's if you can get it within a week say or you can deal with the var only sides.

**longhorn1** · 07-16-2011, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by MR-FQ320

Ok so we are where we are, if you had have asked for advice on this cycle before you started it, the usual response would have been add some test in there , probably prop, and bump the var up to 60mg.

The goal of being harder, leaner and stronger is possiblewith test and var in eight weeks, I doubt dropping 6% bf to single digit bf while maintaining the same bodyweight is possible, in my experience anyway.

So where do we go from here? Ultimately it's your decision, you might not agree with my opinion, but if it were me I would get some test prop and go 100 mg EOD and double up the var when it arrives, until then stay with the 30mg ED. That's if you can get it within a week say or you can deal with the var only sides.

thanks for the replies.
like i said, dont want to deal with hairloss as im prone to it or deal with the the other sides. i will look into the prop tho. is their any test i can just inject once a week with this cycle? should i run the test just til the end of my 8 week anavar cycle? if i dont do the test, would it just be better for my body to just stop the var and start clomid?-now this is where my ignorance shows up as im not that educated on test cycles. my only other expierience was with halodrol 50- great drug. in 30 days went from 190@17% to 198@14%

**daem** · 07-16-2011, 03:08 PM

I love var only...Although I've ran it at 120mg/ED for 12 weeks before and had no negative effects in any bloodwork.

Convinced that var changed my fat storage patterns so that when I'm taking a break from training and living a normal life, I don't get a gut no matter how much booze or cheeseburgers.

Var has a short halflife and the recovery is easy.

Halo is a much different drug...

**CaliburKid** · 09-27-2011, 03:50 PM

Excellent response of information bert003. Hell, I learned a bunch of information in that little response. I do have one question though. Is that a good reccommended cycle:

Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 40mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Anavar, 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Masteron, 100mgs EOD

If so, what would be the reccommended PCT for such? Active recovery Proviron ? Clomid or so as well...?
Nice to help the dude out...

**Lemonada8** · 09-27-2011, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by bert003

read the below longhorn1...
Some steroids only REDUCE TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION(to varying degrees), whereas other steroids will SHUTDOWN the HPTA resulting in a complete cessation of androgen production.
*NOT ALL ANDROGENS CAUSE SHUTDOWN* true, but why would you want to use something that doesnt completely shut down the HPTA. If you are only gonna suppress it (aka anavar only) you are basically spending money to replace your own hormones with no extra anabolic effect.

"Shutdown", is defined by a COMPLETE inhibition of the Pituitary/Testes, resulting in a TOTAL cessation of endogenous androgen production.
SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Turinabol , Anavar , Halotestin , Wistrol, Equipoise , Dianabol , Masteron , Primobolan )
Very Androgenic /Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Trenbolone , Nandrolone , Anadrol , Testosterone) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.
The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier recovery!

no the only difference between suppression and shutdown is the natural occuring levels of LH and FSH, both signs of primary cessation of gonadotropins. Yes you want to try to keep LH and FSH as normal as possible but with exogenous steroids in anabolic doses (supaphysiologic amounts) its going to happen. thats why HCG is such an importance ON cycle because it mimics LH in the male. And HCG has been shown to MAINTAIN spermatogensis in subjects with subpar FSH levels, so that would be essential to recovery. but thats in a different thread i wrote, and I know swifto wrote one also. So using the terms here, using HCG would keep from going to shutdown and keep it in suppression

The Following steroids will NOT SHUTDOWN THE HPTA:
Turinabol, Anavar, Proviron , Halotestin, Wistrol, Equipoise, Dianabol, Masteron, Primobolan, Clostebol, and 4-ADiol.
Pre-PCT: PRE-PCT allows the HPTA to begin LH/FSH output, while still receiving additional anabolic support. This is the peroid of time where we utilize a NON-inhibitory steroid while the endogenous testosterone level begins to recover. This occurs PRIOR TO FULL PCT, so that by the time we begin full PCT the HPTA has already began recovering.
Pre-PCT is dumb. Using HCG on cycle will do everything that this is claimed to do. and with the more suppressive AAS (progestins) it could actually lead to more problems due to not enough test in the body anyways which throws the other hormones out of wack.

Active RECOVERY: The HPTA BEGINS to restore endogenous testosterone production once it detects the body's androgen level beginning to decline(end of cycle).
Therefore, HPTA CAN BEGIN TO RECOVER WHILE STILL IN AN ANABOLIC STATE!
The following drugs can be used during Active Recovery:
Examples...
In a SHORT CYCLE:
Weeks 1-4: Testosterone Propionate , 100mgs ED
Weeks 1-4: Dianabol, 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-4: NPP, 400mgs
Weeks 4-8: **PRE-PCT(ACTIVE RECOVERY)**
Weeks 8-?: **POST CYCLE THERAPY **
so after using NANDROLONE, which was said caused total shutdown, you would wait 4 weeks before beginning PCT? long after all the estered androgens are out of the system, it wouldnt do any good and would put the body in a catabolic state during that time which is counterproductive. Using anavar, or any of those other drugs wouldnt do much either at best somewhat balance the anabolism/catabolism effect that androgens have

A Standard Cycle:
Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 30mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Testosterone Enanthate , 500mgs
Weeks 8-12: Winstrol , 100mgs ED
Weeks 12-16: **PRE-PCT(ACTIVE RECOVERY) **
Weeks 16-26: **POST CYCLE THERAPY**
same here, you are saying to wait untill there is virtually NO TESTOSTERONE in the body and then wait a couple of weeks then start PCT? Ineffective and not smart

DO NOT end your cycle ABRUPTLY! Don't just END your cycle cold-turkey! If you are SHUTDOWN, full restoration can take weeks and even MONTHS. Therefore, one should REMAIN ON minimally-inhibitive STEROIDS(HPTA) in an attempt to MAINTAIN the gains they made while ON CYCLE, while STILL BEGINNING TO RECOVER TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION. On top of that, one still continues to progess from the mild additional anabolic support.Actually, if using HCG on cycle and utilize clomid/nolva combo in PCT then an abrupt end to the cycle would be best. As long as the Testosterone is the last to go, ie run test longer than nandrolone deca to let it clear. That way there would still be some functional testosterone in the body and while using HCG on cycle Intratesticular testosterone volume would be maintained which makes recovery that much easier. testosterone is a key player in Spermatogensis which, in the end, what determines if there is enough functional testosterone in the body

NOT only does it mean that you can run a COMPLETE CYCLE with NO SHUTDOWN whatsoever(as long as the right compounds, dosages, and durations are used), it also means that if you ARE SHUTDOWN from your cycle, you do NOT HAVE TO COME RIGHT OFF CYCLE! Actually, it is BETTER TO STAY ON CYCLE WHILE YOUR ENDOGENOUS TESTOSTERONE LEVEL BEGINS TO INCREASE!
using those compounds wouldnt increase natural testosterone.

You may also run a cycle that COMPLETELY AVOIDS SHUTDOWN:

Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 40mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Anavar, 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Masteron, 100mgs EOD
Or
Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 40mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Primobolan, 500mgs
Weeks 6-14: Turinabol, 60mgs ED
talk about harshness on the liver, they are all metabolized by similar enzymes in the liver (same with alot of drugs) and having that much oral androgen would really put a strain on the liver.
And Many many more! There are tons of NON-inhibitory cycles that you can devise using my my list above for your guideline. Your days of HPTA suffering are over!
this sounds like a marketing ploy
By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.

The Hypothalamus has Androgen, Estrogen, and Progesterone receptors.
Each and EVERY anabolic steroid affects these receptors DIFFERENTLY.
Some steroids affect ALL receptors, while some only affect ONE type of receptor, while others have very little effect on ANY of these receptors.
UNDERSTANDING WHICH steroids affect which receptors, and to WHAT DEGREE, will FULLY enable the steroid user to COMPLETELY and systematically AVOID HPTA SHUTDOWN!
By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.
Steroids that cause an OVERSATURATION(too many receptors activated) of these various hormone receptors, WILL CAUSE SHUTDOWN.
Steroids that DO NOT CAUSE an OVERSATURATION of ANY of these various hormone receptors, will NOT cause SHUTDOWN!any anabolic dose of androgens will cause suppression, thats how some patients on TRT can maintain spermatogensis, and others lose that ability. One of the biggest reasons AAS failed as a male contraceptive agent
The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate ESTROGEN receptors, to varying degrees:
Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone
The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate PROGESTERONE receptors, to varying degrees:
Nandrolone
Trenbolone
Oxymetholone
The Following drugs activate Androgen receptors, to varying degrees:
Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone
Trenbolone
Halotestin
Oxandrolone
Stanzolol
Chlorodehydromethltestosterone
Methyltestosterone
Methenolone...
(ALL AAS*)
As we can see, the steroids that cause HPTA SHUTDOWN either OVERSATURATE ONE SPECIFIC receptor, or they activate too many TOTAL receptors(Androgen/Estrogen/Progesterone)
For instance, Trenbolone causes HPTA SHUTDOWN because it OVERSATURATES BOTH, the ANDROGEN and the PROGESTERONE receptors.
Testosterone causes SHUTDOWN because it converts to ESTROGEN and DHT, therefore, it oversaturates the Androgen/Estrogen receptors.
As we can ALSO SEE, the steroids that DO NOT cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA, do NOT oversaturate ANY of the different hormone receptors, and thus, do NOT cause SHUTDOWN.
Methenolone(Primobolan) does not possess ANY Estrogenic or Progestational ACTIVITY WHATSOEVER. It does, by virtue of being an anabolic steroid, posses a SMALL Androgenic component. Because it lacks ANY ESTROGENIC/PROGESTATIONAL component, and it lacks a strong Androgenic component, it WILL NOT CAUSE SHUTDOWN!
Oxandrolone(Anavar) posseses NO Estrogenic/Progestational component either. AND, it also lacks a strong androgenic component. Thus, Anavar will NOT cause shutdown.
By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.
*It must also be noted, that ANY steroid in LARGE enough DOSAGES for long enough DURATIONS, can cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA.
NOT ALL ANDROGENS CAUSE SHUTDOWN*

"Shutdown", is defined by a COMPLETE inhibition of the Pituitary/Testes, resulting in a TOTAL cessation of endogenous androgen production.

SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Tbol, Var, Wistrol, EQ, Dianabol, masteron, proviron, halo, primo)

Very Androgenic/Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Tren , Deca , Drol, Test) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.

The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier PCT.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.Related Articles, Links

Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone , estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased the gonadotropin response to LHRH normally a lower gonad response to LH. . Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL. There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH. Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged. In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH. Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.
This study isnt applicable to this situation. Who actually has access to LHRH and TRH. thats essentially 'cheating' the body in its feedback loops, both long and short. And by repeating the bolus of releasing hormones essentially reduces the "power" of LH to stimulate testosterone. The TRH feedback loop is long enough it was avoided (in testosterone's case) but had a negative impact on T3, which plays a key part in metabolism. why do people take T3 to lose weight?

This article is seriously misguided and gives the wrong impression. Final verdict is that NO AAS is actually free from causing a form of suppression. thats one of the reasons that TEST is to be the base of all cycles because it provides the NATURAL occuring hormone to still be present while having exogenous factors that would normally induce suppression.

**Budly69** · 09-27-2011, 07:32 PM

Ok dudes I'm in on this thread because I don't feel the need to start a new var thread. I've been lurking here for a long time and feel like a var only cycle is where it's at for me. A little background on me, I'm a has been college football player, been out of the game for two years and as of the last year or so have been working to be healthier in general rather than just strong. I'm 6'7 290 at 23%. I'm down from my playing weight which was 350(LT) but I feel as if I have lost more muscle than I would like.

I'm a kinesiology major and nutrition certified so I have a firm grip on that jazz but based on all the research I've done var seems to be what I want-fat loss with a little muscle gain. My plan is to run var 50mg ED for 8 weeks and then PCT Nolva 20mg ED for 30 days as well as Clomid 50mg ED for 3 weeks all the while taking flax seed oil(LDL/HDL).

Are there any glaring holes in my plan folks? Keep in mind I'm just wanting to drop fat ASAP and my diet is already in check so please keep answers directed toward my cycle/PCT, muchas gracias.

Sorry for hijacking your thread bro

**Lemonada8** · 09-27-2011, 07:40 PM

lol, just make ur own thread

its really not that big of a deal.
Left Tackle huh? nice i was a QB in college :-)

Truthfully just clean up your diet and stick with it, with over a 20% bf you have a naturally higher aromatization rate than someone with lower bf%. That means you will get more suppression from anavar than someone with less bf% becasue while the anavar will take up androgen receptors leaving more natty test to be aromatized to equal more estrogen to equal more suppression which hampers your efforts :P

So to follow your answer, I wouldnt even do it.

**Budly69** · 09-27-2011, 07:43 PM

So it would be counter productive to do because of my lineman belly? What % do I need to be at for it to be worth the time?

**Lemonada8** · 09-27-2011, 07:49 PM

Its typically advisable to get to sub-15%, and be consistant there also not just a modified fast. That way you can become accustomed to the lifestyle and better prepare yourself.

IMO i would just stay natty for a while longer, and lose the weight naturally while still working out. Then, lets say a year, think of doing a proper cycle with testosterone only.

**Budly69** · 09-27-2011, 07:51 PM

Thanks for the info, are there any cutting cycles a fat fuk like me can do to drop some fat? I've heard of cutting cycles and somehow got tunnel vision in my research and only researched var.

**gixxerboy1** · 09-27-2011, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

This article is seriously misguided and gives the wrong impression. Final verdict is that NO AAS is actually free from causing a form of suppression. thats one of the reasons that TEST is to be the base of all cycles because it provides the NATURAL occuring hormone to still be present while having exogenous factors that would normally induce suppression.

I agree with you.

**chuckt12345** · 09-28-2011, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by MR-FQ320

My thoughts are, that you Sir are an idiot. How much research did you do ? about 5 minutes by the look of where you are right now !

Out of the three above options which compounds do you have right now or can get relatively quickly ?

your goals are impossible in that time frame with those chosen compounds.

I think a lot of the guys here would say stop the cycle and get some PCT and start to educate yourself fully about AAS and any compounds you are intrested in.

really dude?