Clarification on water retention

**guitario** · 07-19-2011, 02:34 PM

With steroids that aromatise (Test, Dbol , Anadrol etc) are the water retention gains mainly subcutaneous, within the actual muscle or split between both?

I ask because I always assumed water retention was mainly under the skin (hence bloating) yet strength gains would assume the water is actually in the muscle instead.

With this in mind, would anti estrogens and diuretics drop water from under the skin, muscle or both?

Just after a little clarification on this. Thanks

**Bonaparte** · 07-19-2011, 05:39 PM

Water retention from estrogen is sub-Q, which makes you look fat.
On the other hand, glycogen retention is within the muscle and just makes you look more full and pumped.

All AAS increase glycogen retention to some degree, with orals being the best at this normally (which is also why they make you look great and cause horrible pumps).

**TheClinch** · 07-19-2011, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Water retention from estrogen is sub-Q, which makes you look fat.
On the other hand, glycogen retention is within the muscle and just makes you look more muscular.

All AAS increase glycogen retention to some degree, with orals being the best at this normally (which is also why they make you look great and cause horrible pumps).

nicely done

**guitario** · 07-20-2011, 01:07 AM

So the strength gains from so called 'wet' steroids , come from glycogen loading in the muscle and not the water retention as such? Instead 1 gram of glycogen can hold 2.7 grams of water, so the immediate strength increase comes from this?

**Bonaparte** · 07-20-2011, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by guitario

So the strength gains from so called 'wet' steroids, come from glycogen loading in the muscle and not the water retention as such? Instead 1 gram of glycogen can hold 2.7 grams of water, so the immediate strength increase comes from this?

Yeah, most of the actual strength and size comes from glycogen retention.

You can use an AI with Dbol and still get good size gains and strength.

How do you think Tbol and Var and the like still give good strength gains and fullness?

If high levels of estrogen were important for growth, we'd all be pinning Synovex without removing the estradiol.

**PitMaster** · 07-20-2011, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Water retention from estrogen is sub-Q, which makes you look fat.
On the other hand, glycogen retention is within the muscle and just makes you look more full and pumped.

All AAS increase glycogen retention to some degree, with orals being the best at this normally (which is also why they make you look great and cause horrible pumps).

So during pct and after cylcle is finished your glycogen retention goes down? Thus, why a lot of gain is lost? If so will diet and the training methods that Marcus wrote for after pct will help combat this? What else can be done to help keep your glycogen up after cycle? I realize there are a lot of factors. Just trying to understand.

**RoidReaper** · 07-20-2011, 01:32 PM

Idc what anyone says, ive experienced this first hand. Nolvadex sucks the fukin water right out of you, if its test bloat.

**guitario** · 07-20-2011, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by PitMaster

So during pct and after cylcle is finished your glycogen retention goes down? Thus, why a lot of gain is lost? If so will diet and the training methods that Marcus wrote for after pct will help combat this? What else can be done to help keep your glycogen up after cycle? I realize there are a lot of factors. Just trying to understand.

Well increase calories during pct, if you're not worried about potential fat gain. Also taking creatine during pct should help keep your muscles as full as naturally possible.

**PitMaster** · 07-20-2011, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by guitario

Well increase calories during pct, if you're not worried about potential fat gain. Also taking creatine during pct should help keep your muscles as full as naturally possible.

i remember trying creatine years ago. I got a big ass gut out of it. I look back and now know it was due to all the booze and dehydration, I may give it another shot. Thanks

**PitMaster** · 07-20-2011, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by RoidReaper

Idc what anyone says, ive experienced this first hand. Nolvadex sucks the fukin water right out of you, if its test bloat.

Did it personally ever affect your gains? I know peeps are different.

**RoidReaper** · 07-20-2011, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by PitMaster

Did it personally ever affect your gains? I know peeps are different.

No, im sick of hearing this BS that nolvadex effects your gains. The only reason why it may LOOK like its effecting your gains is due to the water retention going away.