Experiment in the name of science

[cb714]

Ok so just got home from the gym. Ran into one of my buddies who was experimenting with different gear in order to shed some fat. I guess he wanted to do a six week cycle of test prop vs a six week cycle of clen to see which is more effective in losing weight.

He just knocked out his test p cycle. It should be noted he started taking an AI 2 weeks before his first prop shot. The point was to see how effectively testosterone with suppressed estrogen was in eliminating fat and then compare with a second cycle of just clen. No lifting was done this cycle, just strictly 45 min of cardio 4 times per week. Diet was A weight loss diet based on 400 calories below what he was using up in a day.

His starting body fat was 23% by the end of week six he was down to a whopping 7%. He continued AI until the start of pct. PCT consisted of just nolvadex for 2 weeks. At the end of PCT he was still at 7%.

He was telling me he will try to get back up to his starting body fat percentage and try it again with just clen this time and then compare the results.

I guess he's waiting a few weeks to see if he has an estrogen rebound and if so how much it affects his body fat percentage.

I think it's pretty cool he would do this just to do his own research. I personally wouldn't do it but more power to him. I'll keep everyone posted on his clen cycle when he finishes it.

[Bonaparte]

I'm calling bullshit.
Pics of 23 to 7% bf in 6 weeks or it didn't happen.
And what was his actual weight at each point?

[Dr Pepper]

even if this is true, its stupid. whats the ponit? is he a scientist? going from 23% to 7% and then back to 23%...

and whats he using to measure his bf%?

[wmaousley]

23%-7% BF drop in 6 weeks is crazy IMO. Thats basically killing yourself!

[Times Roman]

a couple of thoughts....
23% - 7% = 16% BF loss
assume pre weight is 180
then 29lbs of pure fat lost in 6 weeks

there is no doubt that this amount of overall weight can be lost during this time frame. I can lose 0.5lbs a day for two months on Atkins, without really restricting my volume, just water to drink, and avoid carbs.

But no one ever loses pure fat. they lose some lbm at the same time. just the nature of how it works. So say the fat/lbm ratio of his loss is 2:1. this would mean his overall weight loss would be 42lbs.... 28from fat, and 14 from lbm

so 42lbs in 42 days? Again, it is possible, no doubt. But highly unlikely. Why? As your BF% drops, the amount of BF% you lose becomes harder and harder the lower you get. the first few % are a slam dunk. But once you get below I'd say about 12%, losing BF% is a major effort. And when due to dieting, you begin to lose more LBM relative to BF%. The overall fat/lbm ratio may actually turn out to be 1.5:1 or lower. So suppose it is 1:5 to one. this would mean 28lbs lost from fat, and 21lbs lost from LBM for a total of 49lbs lost in 42 days.

I suspect that your buddy, although maybe sincere, is not measuring his BF% correctly. And he could also be severly dehydrated, and measuring in such a way that he is counting water loss as fat loss.

Either way, what he is doing is not healthy. You may be minus one friend if he keeps it up.

[cb714]

Bro... I just posted this because I thought it was interesting, that's all. He's just one of those guys that like to experiment with shit and doesnt mind using himself as a guinea pig. He was a pretty hefty dude to begin with... I didnt ask his before and after weight but I would guess before weight was somewhere around 230ish. He was strictly measure body fat by what he says.

Next time I see him at the gym I'll ask for some before and after pics to see if he's got some. I also don't know what method he is using to measure his body fat. I'll ask that too.

[cb714]

even if this is true, its stupid. whats the ponit? is he a scientist? going from 23% to 7% and then back to 23%...

and whats he using to measure his bf%?

I would assume the point would be knowledge bro. We don't acquire knowledge without experimentation. If he's willing to do this to himself then by all means let him. It will only benefit the community as a whole. If the clen cycle is as equally effective then we know its crap, if its not then hey we learned something new. Imagine if they never experimented with serms and AI's, a lot of people would be walking around with man tits. The more knowledge the better. If something works better than the current standard then why not implement it. Science is about progression not about about remaining static... and no he's not a scientist, just a guy willing to do some research on himself. I applaud it.

[ScotchGuard02]

I like to do experiments too. Just not to that extreme. I take that back I don't really experiment on myself I just take copious notes of the progress. When I used clenbuterol/T4/HGH I was able to go from 205lb 12% bf to 205lb 9% bf in 3 and a half weeks. If I dieted really hard I may have dropped a % more. I have to really work hard to lose body fat. It's great if your buddy can lose body fat so quickly. Younger people can drop bf faster. Tell him not to gain the fat back. Just stay at 7% and enjoy the attention.

[Srobis15]

The only way I could see him dropping that much fat that quickly would be if he was morbidly obese. Like Roman said, the more fat you lose, the hard it becomes to shed. I would guess if this were true, he lost alot of lean body mass with that fat. And his methods for measuring his BF may not have been ideal. Alot can fluctuate your BF, even simple things like time of day.

[carbo]

ROFL

I love the part where he's going back up to 23% to try out clen

[dec11]

what total crap!!

what age are you, 12?

whats the bet this is a 'friend' scenario to try and get info lol?

[cb714]

what total crap!!

what age are you, 12?

whats the bet this is a 'friend' scenario to try and get info lol?

32... thank you.

How would this be "trying to get info"... that's what google is for. Im simply relaying info that I happened to find quite informational. If you don't agree than great.. I didnt post a question, I posted a statement.

I could give a shit about losing fat because Im currently at 11% and perfectly happy with it.

What, just because this information doesn't conform to the standard steroid wisdom it make it bullshit???

I don't get some people on here. You don't agree and you talk shit. I didn't post this asking for your approval or even your input... I posted this because I found it interesting and wanted to share. Thats it.

Have a nice day.

[cb714]

ROFL

I love the part where he's going back up to 23% to try out clen

How do you think people find out new ways to do things? Hello... some things, actually most things require human trials. If the dude is willing to do this what's the problem? ROFL all you want. If one day it becomes common wisdom that test is just as effective as clen in burning fat I hope you remember this post and your ROFL.

We don't get anywhere without someone in this world experimenting. Do me a favor... next time you go to a legit site about them doing human trials on some new idea I want you to send them a post that you are ROFL.

You gotta love the arrogance of some people.

[Bonaparte]

Dude, the problem is that you titled the post "experiment in the name of science", yet there isn't a bit of science to be found.

Scientific experiments involve the scientific method...which he isn't even using.
All we have is an reckless comparitive trial of apples and oranges by a guy who doesn't know how to correctly measure his BF or control his variables (since a true 400 cal deficit will only burn .114 lbs of fat daily).

But still, please at least post up some before and after pics, since it would be interesting to see what he looks like.

[Times Roman]

It is an experiment, but it isn't scientific, it's reckless.

[cb714]

Dude, the problem is that you titled the post "experiment in the name of science", yet there isn't a bit of science to be found.

Scientific experiments involve the scientific method...which he isn't even using.
All we have is an reckless comparitive trial of apples and oranges by a guy who doesn't know how to correctly measure his BF or control his variables (since a true 400 cal deficit will only burn .114 lbs of fat daily).

But still, please at least post up some before and after pics, since it would be interesting to see what he looks like.

I agree. Science was the wrong word to use. I tried changing the title but it doesn't work.

BTW ran into him again yesterday and asked what he was using to measure BF and he said he had one of those Omron body fat analyzers. Like $50 at the store. I heard several different factors can affect the tests with those so his body fat % may not have been accurate in the beginning or end. For all we know it cold have really been 19% to start and 10% to end. Who knows? Im just relaying information.

Instead of me relaying this and getting flamed for it. I'll ask him if he would be interested in setting up an acct and posting info.

[Bonaparte]

I agree. Science was the wrong word to use. I tried changing the title but it doesn't work.

BTW ran into him again yesterday and asked what he was using to measure BF and he said he had one of those Omron body fat analyzers. Like $50 at the store. I heard several different factors can affect the tests with those so his body fat % may not have been accurate in the beginning or end. For all we know it cold have really been 19% to start and 10% to end. Who knows? Im just relaying information.

Instead of me relaying this and getting flamed for it. I'll ask him if he would be interested in setting up an acct and posting info.

Oh. Well there is the problem. Those things can't differentiate fat from water. Or stomach contents from lean mass. Or much of anything really.
They're only somewhat useful if the only variable is actually bodyfat (i.e. you measure yourself at the same time of day, same hydration level, etc).

Back in HS, we used to find ways to trick those things for wrestling, in order to get certified to compete at a lower weight than our doctors would normally allow.
The way he is drying himself out, starving himself, etc is going to throw off the numbers immensely.
This is why I'm just interested in the pics.