Food for thought regarding strength gains and myths

[dmk327]

As I have been on pct for over a month now I notice the strength is still there. I ran test and winstrol. My theory is strength gains are more preserved on drugs with lower androgenic properties. I can say this because I have watched others lose alot of strength coming off of the stronger, more androgenic drugs namely tren and halo. Now granted test has a the 100:100 ratio, I see very little loss of anything cumming off test.
The wild card factors that I kinda want to know are drugs like Anadrol which on paper do not appear to be very androgenic but seem to give alot of the same results in terms of strength and aggression that one would expect to see from something with a high androgenic ratio. What other mediators are involved in the mechanism of action given that it has been determined that anadrol poorly binds to the androgen receptor.

Oh and remember, Receptor down regulation is a myth. It appears there are alot of half truths out there regarding AAS. From PCT to cycling theory's to HCG to pro dosages. These are the myths that pass from user to user, not the ones that the general public gets from the media. I for one never list my actual dosages on here but stick to normal advised doses in fear that some 18 year old kid would read that and try a cycle with x amount of y and t amount of z.

[songdog]

Well I agree with you n the tren strenght.Mine goes thru the roof.And its humbling when you come off.I loose a lil on test not much.But I am low dose.Never used Abombs Dbol in the passed.But been a while.Now I am a simple guy no collage.So I cant break it down like say Bonaparte and you can.I just read a lot on this stuff and dose mildly.And I get good results for my age and injury restrictments.

[Lemonada8]

How is receptor downregulation a myth? what exactly are you trying to say there?

[dmk327]

It has not scientifically been proven and two endocrinologists I see also disagree with receptor downregulation. In my opinion it boils down to androgens at certain doses being able to only do so much for aiding in hypertrophy and maintaining a certain amount of muscle mass. I theorize this as x amount of aas being able to perform so well tp a certain point and after that needing y amount more to continue to produce amazing results without adjusting the dose upward. I feel alot of people I talk to have the wrong idea about pct when they say they need pct to "give the receptors a break". Pct should be all about recovery of normal baseline hpta function to assure no long term dysfunction of any aspect occurs.

[nobloat]

I have heard from many people that strength gains from winny are much easier to maintain than a lot of other aas. anavar is known for this to. Neither one are known as strong adrogens. maybe there is something to what you are saying

[guitario]

I always find strength gains are easy to keep providing the dosages were mild/average to begin with and the user kept their calories up and trained hard through their pct and a few months beyond. A lot of people tend to take it easy during their pct or even take a break once their pct has finished and thus lose their size and strength then.

[Lemonada8]

There is downregulation following AAS use. esp in supraphysiologic/anabolic doses. There has been research on the upregulation of the AR due to excess testosterone use. and there have been studies that suggest androgen use plays a part in AR downregulation in certain tissues.

If there was no upregulation/downregulation then steroids would be ineffective. If only upregulation, then after someone uses 3x the amount of normal test to grow, then when they stop they should show signs of low t, yet T levels being in the normal range.
Upregulation is much faster than downregulation due to AAS use.

so I am lost at what the 'downregulation myth' is...

[dmk327]

See lemonade you are not really following what I actually want to get across here... Somebody want to try to help if you are able to pick up where I left off. And I challenge you to THINK about why do we not downregulate at the normal production doses?

[RaZr]

How does "cumming" off test feel btw

[Lemonada8]

See lemonade you are not really following what I actually want to get across here... Somebody want to try to help if you are able to pick up where I left off. And I challenge you to THINK about why do we not downregulate at the normal production doses?

ok so now you make no sense, and when i present a valid arguement, you want someone else to pick up where you left off... but isnt it YOUR point that you are trying to make? you lose validity there.

why would you be scared to post the doses that you use on this forum? for some fear of a 18 y/o copying you? that is a weak arguement to not post. and pulls in a cloud of doubt on your sunshine of logic.

what is "y" amount that you do after "X' amount, but you dont up the dose of the "X" amount? but still produce the same "amazing' results? are you refering to stacking compounds?


and PCT for giving the receptors a break is refering to reaching a plateau when on cycle, and when off cycle you try to maintain the gains with nutrition and stumuli. but eventually it will go back to your own bodys max of mass *provided you surpassed it while on cycle*

So by not trying to explain your statement, and wanting someone else to do it, when there has been NO comment regarding actually knowing what you are talking about... I cant really think you are a valid source of knowledge to discuss this, and you may just be some 'bro-scientist'...

oh and there have been studies showing downregulation of the AR with androgen use...

[dmk327]

Wow its been awhile and I really didn't feel like getting too in depth as I was too busy nodding out that night or day or whatever. I'm not trying to start an argument about whos the scientist and who has what level of education and knowledge into the subject bc it sure as hell is not me. I am a civil engineer not a doctor and anything I know is due to my reading and some of my theories are very controversial but sometimes it's best to challenge certain "facts" especially in this field. There has been NO ethical study of any of these AAS at doses and combinations that we use, so until Joseph Mengele( smart guy) comes back to experiment we can each see what works for us, collaborate with each other on the known facts and organize some type of official resource for ANYONE to access and use. Or we could all just constantly get into another dick size contest and argue over trivial matters to boost our own egos.

[Lemonada8]

i never got into level of education nor field of education. I was trying to figure out what you mean by this myth? and you cant say. Now you come back with stating you just know what you know by reading. And your theories are controversial, but thats best to challange them? So when i challange your theories, you cant reply? And you finish off by saying that some guy has to have studies and collaborate on the known facts then publish something before you can accept it?
No there hasnt been any ethical study on anbolic steroid use, mainly because its illegeal in the US and alot of the world until recently in some countries where it was made into a loop hole...

if you cant base your theories on known facts already, and cant counter the facts i state that show your 'theory' is false, or misguided... then what is your point?

this thread is a fail as a debate, because you cant actually say what the myth is. Just that downregulation is a myth... and finish off with that this is a trivial matter which shows your pride in your own 'controversial theory'

[AstheticKing]

ur smart and i like ur food....i ate that dish a long time ago but good job........agreed