Had Dr. Check up today

[J-Dogg]

I brought up that I used ECA stacks before and had awesome results. He explained to me the only side effect from them that is bad is not long term unless you use them for a VERY long time.

The only real danger is working out (cardo) extremely hard while on a stimulant. It can cause a stroke, heart attack or heart murmur.

I wanted so bad to bring up AS but did not, I think he could tell I have used them though cause he did bring them up briefly but did not go into detail.

One thing he did say that was new to me is about dieting. He said your body can turn Protein into glucose and keep your muscles from depleting so the lower the carbs the better, as long as its not for a long time.

[J-Dogg]

Oh, I'm healthy

every thing is working fine.

Just wondering...Any one ever ask their Doc to monitor them while on AS? Any idea what response they might have? Would it be illeagal for them?

I know they can't go tell the cops because the 5th protects you from your, docotor, lawyer, spouse, priest and self.

[MR PHATT ASS]

I WAS GONNA ASK BASICALLY THE SAME THING TO SEE IF ANYONE GOES TO THE DR 1ST BEFORE A CYCLE. AS FAR AS THE DR. KEEPING QUIET___YOU MIGHT GET DIFF VIEWS ON THIS CAUSE HE CANT GO TO THE COPS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT AAS/DRUGS MAY VOID MEDICAL BENEFITS. SO THAT MIGHT BE A FINE LINE THAT MANY PEEPS DONT WANNA CROSS..WHO KNOWS WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE?? HE MAY PUT IN HIS FILE ( JOE SHMOE) USED STERIODS AT AGE __TO__..ANYONE ELSE KNOW ABOUT THIS THEORY/??

[PaPaPumP]

I would type something, but I'd rather just sit back and wait for TNT to disect this post into crumbs.

[MR PHATT ASS]

PPPP WAS THIS A BAD QUEST??? OR A BAD REPLY???

[TNT]

Okay, time for an epistle . . .

The response you get will depend on the individual doctor and how hip he or she is when it comes to AS.

As a general rule, a doctor can legally advise you on anything, but from the perspective of risk management, it's unlikely that most doctors will give you advice that is designed to encourage your AS use.

For example, you will not be likely to find a doctor who says, "Well, you should use 500-1,000 mg. of cyp a week to start . . ." For one thing, the maximum clinically recommended dose of cyp is 800 mg. per month, and no doctor will recommend upwards of 2,000-4,000 mg. Ditto any other drug, especially drugs that are normally not used by men versus women, drugs that are not used for a valid medical reason (like insulin if you're not diabetic), or drugs that are not legally manufactured in the U.S. (assuming that's where you are). Even if the doctor does not write the prescription, you will not have his or her advice per se on what to use.

What a doctor may say, however, is something like, "Look, I can't tell you how to use AS or what to use. But if you're going to do it on your own, let's monitor your health and do the right lab work to make sure you don't have negative effects." That is perfectly appropriate and doesn't put the doctor at risk, either legally or in terms of liability.

The term I used earlier, risk management, involves the doctor protecting himsekl or herself from any negative action, whether criminal or civil. Say, for example, you're young and you're doing AS. You juice yourself up in thewrong way or use impure drugs, and you have, say, a heart attack or stroke. Or you die. Or you take insulin on your own, get into a car, speed off, go into hypoglycemia, and get in an accident in which you or someone else is injured. Criminally, the doctor may have done nothing and may not be subject to arrest.

But civilly, we are a litigation-happy society, and the doctor could be sued by your parents (if you die or are permanently disabled) or even by the third party (that you hit in your car, or the family of the other party). And that depends on the jury - juries love to find people guilty whenever they can in personal injury cases. Since your doctor is the person with "deep pockets" (in the form of malpractice insurance) to be tapped, even if he or she were innocent, the insurance company would want to settle just to keep it out of court.

That's why any doctor will walk a fine line when it comes to advising you on AS use. It ain't gonna happen. But merely monitoring your health and telling you about any negative effects is safe ground, and most doctors will do this.

Ultimately, then, you're the one who will take responsibility for your AS use, and you're more likely too get your doctor's cooperation if you know the scope of how far he or she can go. So don't expect anything too helpful if you say, "Hey, Doc, how do I use [fill in the blank]?" As you may know, we get that kind of question all too often right here on the forum, and that's not a good approach to using AS.

But if you're up front and say, for example, "Look, Doc, I know you can't tell me how to use any of this stuff, but as long as I'm gonna do it anyway, I want to monitor how I'm doing so I don't have any negative effects on my kidneys or liver," etc., you'll get much more cooperation. And while the doctor may not tell you what to do, he or she is more likely to tell you what not to do so you don't go too far. In other words, make it clear that the responsibility for what you're doing belongs to you (because it does), not to the doctor.

It's up to you to find the "happy medium." If you mention AS to your doctor, and he or she starts giving you a judgmental, preachy sermon about the evils of roids, it's time to find another doctor. And quite frankly, if your doctor does tell you to go ahead and, say, use 500-1,000 mg. of cyp a week, it's also time to find another doctor. Because that kind of doctor is a whore who doesn't give a fuck about your health in the long haul. The best doctor is somewhere in the middle - one who will give you the facts without preaching your ass off.

Finally, be aware that not all physicians know much about AS in the first place. Your kindly old neighborhood general practitioner will not be the biggest expert in the world when it comes to putting together a cycle, stacking, or any of the other "jargon" we use in the AS world. (By the way, endocrinologists tend to know more about AS than most other doctors because so many AS deal with the endocrine system - androgens and estrogens, etc. Some sports medicine practitioners also know more than general practitioners because they tend to run into AS use among athletes. But just because someone has M.D. or D.O. after his or her name does not mean they're any more expert than you are.)

Finally, a couple of brief comments in regard to confidentiality. In you list, J-DOGG, you mentioned spouses. Be careful - spousal privilege does not exist in all states. All forms of confidentiality (which is actually called privileged communication when it's codified in law) are legislated; an additional group in most states is journalists, as well as psychologists (all states) and professional/mental health counselors (some states). In other words, not all states recognize all types of privilege.

Second, be aware that the privilege (confidentiality) in the doctor-patient relationship is "iffy" if you're a minor (usually meaning under 18 years old). You may find some physicians that feel it's okay to tell your parents about your conversations. There is some leeway here (for example, some minors are still protected by confidentiality when it comes to the abortion issue), but a doctor may not be obligated to keep things confidential if you're not yet 18.

Third, regardless of your age, it always pays to establish with your doctor that everything you say will be confidential. Almost all doctors are aware, and will adhere to, privileged communication; you don't want to be using the rare but occasional ignoramus.

Fourth, even if you're sure your doctor will maintain your confidentiality, it pays to ask your doctor not to mention your AS use in your medical chart. In the event that you are in an accident, even years down the road, your entire chart could be subpoenaed in the event of litigation, and your AS use could be used by opposing to raise a jury doubt. As in, "Yes, your honor, that guy was hit by my drunken client, but if he wasn't on AS he wouldn't have been crossing the street in the first place."

Finally on confidentiality and privileged communication, remember the limits of a discussion. AS use is a crime in most places, and whether you are talking about a physician or anyone else, you shouldn't talk in specific terms about future use - not necessarily your own, but don't mention anything about your specific sources. Let me give you a common example: If you go to a lawyer and say, "I killed my [husband/wife] last night," the lawyer must keep what you have said confidential. On the other hand, if you tell your lawyer, "I killed my [husband/wife] last night, and tonight I'm gonna kill my boss," then the lawyer must report it to the police - it's a future act rather than a past act. You obviously have more flexibility when it comes to talking to your doctor, but make sure you don't cross a line bay saying, for example, "Hey, Doc, thanks for the advice. I think I'll go down to 100 Main Street tonight and score some 'roids." In other words, don't put your physician in the position of feeling that he or she has to take any action that goes farther than providing you with information or clinical support.

All that said, if your doctor is willing to keep your AS use confidential, you'd be nuts not to discuss it - face it, we're taking some strange drugs, shooting stuff into our bods, etc. And it pays to have the big picture to get maximum benefit without negative consequences.

[TNT]

Originally posted by PaPaPumP
I would type something, but I'd rather just sit back and wait for TNT to disect this post into crumbs.

Of course, even as PaPaPump posted this, I was composing my, um, dissection.

Damn, I hate being predictable!

P.S. to Mr. Phatt Ass - No, it was both a good question and a good reply. I've adapted "said dissection" to reflect your comments.

[partyboynyc]

not in a bad way, but you write so damn much.i wish i had your patience to write all that.

[MR PHATT ASS]

...............AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

[TNT]

Originally posted by partyboynyc
not in a bad way, but you write so damn much.i wish i had your patience to write all that.

Thanks, PB, but it's not patience. It comes from typing 100 wpm, which comes from a few years of piano lessons. And having some tight-ass professors that made me learn how to write well. (Hated 'em then, but love 'em now.)

But hey, bro, I try to keep it in perspective . . . Like you look better in front of a fashion photographer's camera than I do. (Must be that NYC state of mind.)

[partyboynyc]

i'm an ugly bastard!!haha

[EXCESS]

Originally posted by partyboynyc
i'm an ugly bastard!!haha

No kidding. Your face looks like it was run over by a truck!

[killerdice]

Ask some big freak in your gym,,, you would be suprised at how many get check ups from doc,,, I used to get my checkup and Nolvadex, from a doc that works here in town.. May use him again someday.

[TNT]

Originally posted by killerdice
I used to get my checkup and Nolvadex, from a doc that works here in town...

This raises an exception to the principles I outlined above. I'm not sure of whether I raised this in the recent Nolva thread, but even if I did, but it pays to mention it again.

You should not expect a physician to advise you on the use of AS, and certainly shouldn't expect him or her to write prescriptions for the AS that are legally available.

But, if you are already using AS and have a complication, you might be able to have your physician to write a script for something that would correct the complication, even if it is for something commonly used for AS purposes.

Namely, Nolvadex. For example, if you are doing a cycle and begin to develop signs of gynecomastia, a physician may write a prescription for Nolva.

However, one thing that is usually addressed by physicians is the drug's "indications" (that is, the reasons for which a drug may be prescribed). Nolvadex, for example, is primarily prescribed for (1) treatment of metastatic breast cancer in women and men, (2) adjuvant treatment of breast cancer in post-menopausal women, and (3) reduction of breast cancer risk in high-risk women. It is generally not prescribed for gyno, and many doctors would consider this a purpose outside the drug's published indications. Moreover, the general thinking in the medical community is that most cases of gyno will disappear once you remove the cause of the condition (namely, when an AS cycle ends).

(In fact, the fact that Nolva helps treat gyno is well known in the AS community, but most physicians probably don't have a clue.)

So, if you develop gyno, can you get a prescription for Nolva? It's a crap shoot, but always worth a try - it simply depends on how hip, and how flexible, your individual doctor is.

[PaPaPumP]

Originally posted by MR PHATT ASS
PPPP WAS THIS A BAD QUEST??? OR A BAD REPLY???

Nononono....I'm sorry!! Didn't mean to make you feel bad... Your reply was great! Mine would have sucked is my point.

I just meant....well, look at TNT's post. He just knows how to make it all go down so warm and gentle...

[senor_gato]

Hey TNT!
Do you have a law degree or something like that, sounds like you have some knowledge about the law

[TNT]

Originally posted by senor_gato
Hey TNT!
Do you have a law degree or something like that, sounds like you have some knowledge about the law

No, senor_g. I have lots of legal study from grad school, but it was in an academic program (not a J.D. program). I am not, nor have I ever been, nor would I ever want to be, a lawyer. (In fact, a lot of lawyers don't even want to be lawyers.) Also taught it, but that was also in an academic program, not a professional law program.

By the way, there is a web site that specifically addresses AS from a legal perspective, and it's well worth reading. It's at http://www.steroidlaw.com. Keep in mind, as with any web site, that it's written by someone (an attorney) who is potentially looking for business, but he does have a wealth of information there. (I can't tell whether he's personally a juicer, but one never knows . . . In terms of clinical issues, one of the people who has provided me with lots of good information is my local pharmacist, who may have done some "running" in TJ when he was in college. I don't think he's a user, nor do I know if he ever was, but the guy definitely knows his stuff.)

[J-Dogg]

Christ man I think you type faster than I read.

All very good info though!

Thanks a ton!

I'll be talking to the Doc soon