Aussie virgin

**Snowstorm** · 09-08-2011, 03:33 AM

Hi all. Just some opinions on my first cycle. I've been trying to research as much as I can, and will still approach my gp for advice also....fingers crossed he will provide advice

(and perhaps a blood test).

; test prop, winnie and pct; nolvadex and clomid. (not 100% confident on amounts)

I'm 6 foot. was 60kg, but after 3yrs of natural bodybuilding, am currently sitting on 74kg (was at 78kg off season). BF%: averaging around 12%. Trying to stay lean and eat clean.

Thanks guys

***t-gunz*** · 09-08-2011, 04:37 AM

welcome mate. where in oz are ya?

how old are you.

first cycle prop is good. but can be painful depends on where you get it from.

doc will give blood test. you just gotta ask.

**Choppers** · 09-08-2011, 04:51 AM

Why do two compounds on the first cycle?

Most people recommend a long ester test as otherwise you end up pinning ED or EOD and after a while it sucks big time.
Some people suffer badly with prop but it's the luck of the draw.

I suppose it depends on your goals but you should be able to grow easily enough at your current weight without them

**smashingbox** · 09-08-2011, 05:12 AM

Bro 74kg is pretty light for someone 6 foot, but besides that it is very difficult for anyone to comment on your cycle when you dont list timing, duration or dosages... for anything, or your goals. Test prop and winny I think would be a good first cycle, should see some good lean gains I would say, but if you plan is to put on a great deal of size then maybe test cyp with a dbol kick start might be a better option?

You might also want to really look at your diet, as this will ultimately dictate your success, you will need to significantly increase both protein and more importantly carbohydrate intake during your cycle. You should also attempt to maintain a decent macro ratio while doing it. I think that if you are going to take risks with your health (i.e. take steroids ) then you should at least have a solid game plan... otherwise it may all be a waste.

</lecture>

**Snowstorm** · 09-08-2011, 05:24 AM

I'm in Melbourne and I'm 27 atm.
I was considering prop or cyp...? I'm looking for a more aesthetic look rather than bodybuilding comp or improving performance in sports. I'm considering two, purely for that reason (aesthetic).

Has anyone had troubles with talking with gp's? I've heard some will write up a prescription?? that'll guarantee quality products lol

**Dr Pepper** · 09-08-2011, 05:33 AM

Hey mate I'm from Thomastown, northern suburbs. Where abouts in Melb you from?

Just stick with Test C or E for 12 weeks at 500mg a week. As long as diet and PCT are in check you are g2g... Talking to GP's is easy just go in and ask for a blood test, they can't refuse. You won't get a prescription unless you qualify for trt

**Snowstorm** · 09-08-2011, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by smashingbox

Bro 74kg is pretty light for someone 6 foot, but besides that it is very difficult for anyone to comment on your cycle when you dont list timing, duration or dosages... for anything, or your goals. Test prop and winny I think would be a good first cycle, should see some good lean gains I would say, but if you plan is to put on a great deal of size then maybe test cyp with a dbol kick start might be a better option?

You might also want to really look at your diet, as this will ultimately dictate your success, you will need to significantly increase both protein and more importantly carbohydrate intake during your cycle. You should also attempt to maintain a decent macro ratio while doing it. I think that if you are going to take risks with your health (i.e. take steroids ) then you should at least have a solid game plan... otherwise it may all be a waste.

</lecture>

I know right? I'd ultimately like to be at least 85kg and lean. I do find it difficult gaining. Even though each meal (up to 6 or 7 each day), contained carbs, efa's and around 40-50g protein, it was still tough to increase weight o.O My diet is pretty good overall though.

My idea was 8 or 10 weeks of test at 500mg, and then stano for 6 or 8 weeks at 50mg...?

**Snowstorm** · 09-08-2011, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

Hey mate I'm from Thomastown, northern suburbs. Where abouts in Melb you from?

Just stick with Test C or E for 12 weeks at 500mg a week. As long as diet and PCT are in check you are g2g... Talking to GP's is easy just go in and ask for a blood test, they can't refuse. You won't get a prescription unless you qualify for trt

I'm in st kilda dr pepper. Thanks for advice. I'm looking at gaining at cutting, hence the idea of stacking the test with stanol.....? why just the test?

**smashingbox** · 09-08-2011, 08:04 AM

Mate from what you are saying you want to run up to 10 weeks "then" Stana for 6-8 weeks. This is wrong.

Things to consider:

- Prop vs Cyp... bascially here the biggest difference is how long it will take to have an effect, and similarly how long it will take to clear your system, also how frequently you can inject. Cyp is twice per week or as infrequently as once per week... prop is at least every second day and probably every day.

- I wouldnt run winny/stana for longer than 6 weeks at this stage, consider your liver and think about getting some milk thistle. Stana shouldn't be run on its own, it will shut down your natural test production leaving you impotent/low libido. Stana can also dry out your joints, this is not so much of an issue if you have some extra fluid from test, another good reason to run them together.

- If running Cyp you will need to take into consideration that it will take approximately 2-3 weeks (closer to 3) from your last shot of cyp before your test levels will return to anything close to baseline. So if running stana at the end of your cycle try starting the stana in say week 7, meaning you will have for weeks 7-10, finish cyp on week 10 and continue stana only for 3 weeks while your test levels are still above baseline. You could then start pct week 13-14 (3 weeks after last cyp shot, straight after stana).

- If running prop then you will feel it almost immediately and likewise it will take days not weeks to clear your system, if using stana at the end of this cycle I would start in week 4 and continue to week 10 and then stop prop and stana together before pct immediately more or less.

How many calories are you getting per day?

I eat 7+ meals per day, and get over 4000 calories, just to maintain my modest weight of 82kg... some of us just need to eat a shit load to maintain/gain weight... steroids wont do anything for you if you cant eat.

**nobloat** · 09-08-2011, 10:18 AM

Test and winny thats a good first cycle .Its many peoples first cycle. However Test prop Are by far the most painfull shots I ever have taken and you need them often. Dont let this discourage you fom needle use. My injection area hurts so bad Its useless for 2 days . And then Its time to shoot again. test e test c are virtuosly unnoticable.

**songdog** · 09-08-2011, 10:41 AM

Well the reason we say run test only 1st cycle is beacuse if you have a reaction.Then you know wat it will be.1st cycle you dont need nothing else you will grow like a weed.People always want to do more than they need.You grow in steps not all at once.And you need to hit the diet section.Beacuse if you aint gaining weight your diet aint right.Most of us thought our diets were spot on until we had them looked at.

**Snowstorm** · 09-08-2011, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by smashingbox

Mate from what you are saying you want to run up to 10 weeks "then" Stana for 6-8 weeks. This is wrong.

Things to consider:

- Prop vs Cyp... bascially here the biggest difference is how long it will take to have an effect, and similarly how long it will take to clear your system, also how frequently you can inject. Cyp is twice per week or as infrequently as once per week... prop is at least every second day and probably every day.

- I wouldnt run winny/stana for longer than 6 weeks at this stage, consider your liver and think about getting some milk thistle. Stana shouldn't be run on its own, it will shut down your natural test production leaving you impotent/low libido. Stana can also dry out your joints, this is not so much of an issue if you have some extra fluid from test, another good reason to run them together.

- If running Cyp you will need to take into consideration that it will take approximately 2-3 weeks (closer to 3) from your last shot of cyp before your test levels will return to anything close to baseline. So if running stana at the end of your cycle try starting the stana in say week 7, meaning you will have for weeks 7-10, finish cyp on week 10 and continue stana only for 3 weeks while your test levels are still above baseline. You could then start pct week 13-14 (3 weeks after last cyp shot, straight after stana).

- If running prop then you will feel it almost immediately and likewise it will take days not weeks to clear your system, if using stana at the end of this cycle I would start in week 4 and continue to week 10 and then stop prop and stana together before pct immediately more or less.

How many calories are you getting per day?

I eat 7+ meals per day, and get over 4000 calories, just to maintain my modest weight of 82kg... some of us just need to eat a shit load to maintain/gain weight... steroids wont do anything for you if you cant eat.

Thanks smashingbox. I meant to say 7weeks in on test to start on the stanol/win. no orals for the tests though. i've read it is quite toxic to the liver right?

I'm probably consuming anywhere between 3000-3700 calories a day. high in protein and efa's and moderate carbs ie oats, sweet potato and brown rice, wholemeal breads etc. Though i haven't been eating carbs in the evening.....probably would be a good idea considering my workouts are in the evening o.O ?

I like the sound of prop with stana (finishing at the same time), however, nobloat mentioned that prop is painful??

Cheers mate

**auslifta** · 09-08-2011, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Snowstorm

Thanks smashingbox. I meant to say 7weeks in on test to start on the stanol/win. no orals for the tests though. i've read it is quite toxic to the liver right?

I'm probably consuming anywhere between 3000-3700 calories a day. high in protein and efa's and moderate carbs ie oats, sweet potato and brown rice, wholemeal breads etc. Though i haven't been eating carbs in the evening.....probably would be a good idea considering my workouts are in the evening o.O ?

I like the sound of prop with stana (finishing at the same time), however, nobloat mentioned that prop is painful??

Cheers mate

The liver toxicity associated with stana is blown out of proportion. You're too light in my opinion for your height. If you do have a fast metabolism as you say, carbs in the evening shouldnt be a problem. Focus on either cutting or gaining. Trying to do both isn't very efficient. Just eat alot of clean foods and I think you will be happy with results.
With the pain, all I can say is suck it up.