are blood pressure meds something you can just take as you need? like on dbol?

[Juicifer]

is propranolol any good? what is good and easily available? does vitamin c realy have a noticable effect? i read that bp meds slow down your heart rate so much that it may cause you to put on fat... i also read that they can cause you to not even get a real "pump" in the gym... thanks for any replys

[Juicifer]

how long do they take to kick in?

[ichabodcrane]

There are many useful and effective BP meds. If you are going to run short term, IMO consider a Beta-blocker or a thiazide diuretic. If you run a beta-blocker, choose one that is cardio selective (ie. atenolol, bisoprolol). Propranolol is nonselective meaning it blocks beta-1 receptors in the heart to decrease cardiac output, heart rate ,and subsequently decrease BP. But it also blocks beta-2 receptors in the lung (to cause bronchoconstriction), arterioles of skeletal muscle (vasoconstriction) as well as altering lipid/glucose metabolism. The kidneys compensate for the decrease in BP by increasing Na+ retention and plasma volume to some extent. So you would not want to run a nonselective beta-blocker if you had asthma or diabetes. The nonselective beta-blockers (at low doses only) lack the beta 2 effects. Adverse effects include lethargy, fatigue, decreased libido. But this effects everyone differently. The thiazide diuretic (hydrochlorothiazide) works in the distal tubule of the kidney to decrease the reabsorption of Na+ by inhibiting the Na+/Cl- cotransporter on the luminal membrane. This decreases BP initially by increasing Na+ and H20 excretion. This causes a decrease in extracellular volume resulting in a decrease in cardiac output and renal blood flow. The downside to hydrochlorothiazide is it produces considerable disturbances in electrolyte balance (decreased K+ and Mg2+, while retaining Ca2+). So you would need to keep an eye on electrolytes and make sure you get proper supplementation. They can also induce hyperuricemia increasing risk of kidney stones, gout etc. if taken long term. But usually not a problem. Again, diuretics would be avoided in people with diabetes or hyperlipidemia.
Both thiazide diuretics and beta blockers are first line therapy in uncomplicated primary HTN.
To answer your question about putting on fat and decreased pumps, I don't feel the beta-blockers to be that bad (but note again, everyone is different). You will need to find an agent which is best for you. There are many, and I by no means covered them all. Your best bet would be to see your PCP and discuss a med with him/her. I could understand your reluctance, but consider the alternative of not treating HTN. I am not recommending anything to you, but just providing some insight. You can PM me if you want more specific info.

[longhornDr]

Originally posted by Juicifer
is propranolol any good?

You dont want to be messing with things like propanolol. Beta-blockers only treat a symptom and not the cause of the problem. It's much easier and safer to control BP with diet (i.e. salt, water intake, etc.)

[Juicifer]

yeah i'm gonna forget about it then...good info though thanks...any vitamin C info?

[ichabodcrane]

Sure BP meds only treat the symptom, that is what they are designed to do. But in someone who has primary HTN, these may be crucial in controlling BP. Many times there is no underlying cause in primary HTN and even after lifestyle modifications, people still can't get their BP under control. Especially people who use AAS. Most people will find they have increased BP due to AAS. You can limit estrogen accumulation etc. , but still this may not be enough. So if you find that even after lifestyle modifications you still have high BP, then what do you think you should do? You could stop the AAS, but this is not always feasable. Or you could use things to keep it under control. Vitamin C by itself will not be sufficient to control BP. It can be helpful if a person is defecient in this vitamin.

[Juicifer]

Originally posted by ichabodcrane
Sure BP meds only treat the symptom, that is what they are designed to do. But in someone who has primary HTN, these may be crucial in controlling BP. Many times there is no underlying cause in primary HTN and even after lifestyle modifications, people still can't get their BP under control. Especially people who use AAS. Most people will find they have increased BP due to AAS. You can limit estrogen accumulation etc. , but still this may not be enough. So if you find that even after lifestyle modifications you still have high BP, then what do you think you should do? You could stop the AAS, but this is not always feasable. Or you could use things to keep it under control. Vitamin C by itself will not be sufficient to control BP. It can be helpful if a person is defecient in this vitamin.

stop aas? NEVER lol j/k... thanks for the reply

[ichabodcrane]

Exactly!

[longhornDr]

Originally posted by ichabodcrane
Sure BP meds only treat the symptom, that is what they are designed to do. But in someone who has primary HTN, these may be crucial in controlling BP. Many times there is no underlying cause in primary HTN and even after lifestyle modifications, people still can't get their BP under control. Especially people who use AAS. Most people will find they have increased BP due to AAS. You can limit estrogen accumulation etc. , but still this may not be enough. So if you find that even after lifestyle modifications you still have high BP, then what do you think you should do? You could stop the AAS, but this is not always feasable. Or you could use things to keep it under control. Vitamin C by itself will not be sufficient to control BP. It can be helpful if a person is defecient in this vitamin.

I was refering to someone that is concurrently taking AAS, to treat AAS related high blood pressure, which is not idiopathic. Sure beta-blockers have their uses, but it would be unwise for the average person to attempt to throw something like propanolol into the mix.

One of my technicians killed 2 sheep this week with propanolol on accident.

[Juicifer]

Originally posted by longhornDr


I was refering to someone that is concurrently taking AAS, to treat AAS related high blood pressure, which is not idiopathic. Sure beta-blockers have their uses, but it would be unwise for the average person to attempt to throw something like propanolol into the mix.

One of my technicians killed 2 sheep this week with propanolol on accident.

you better clone them back to life dr!