1st Epi Cycle log- Before the training wheels come off

[StillCold518]

Sup fellahs, I decided I might as well log my epi cycle..Why the heck not?
Unfortunately, I decided to make it rather late.
I started my cycle exactly one week ago. My dosing plan is 20/30/30/40.
Or possibly 20/30/40/40
I'm using all the 'normal' cycle support supplements, with Nolva as a 4 week pct

Im 22 years old, 5'7, 178 pounds, and around 12% bodyfat

Today marks the end of my first week, and I can say I have not seen/felt much of anything yet. I have a bit more energy in the gym, but thats about it. However, friday I did a real light chest workout, and I had the greatest pump I have ever experienced. Gave me a slight woody.

Side Effects: I seem to be getting pimples on my face more, and my back is slightly breaking out, no signs of gyno, (which I dont expect). Libido seems to be high, which is fine with me, and lethargy hasn't been a problem yet.

I plan to update every night and answer any questions thrown at me.
Later fellahs

[10nispro]

epi cycle?

[StillCold518]

Epistane brotha

[StillCold518]

epi cycle?

Epistane brothaaa

[10nispro]

prohormone crap!!

[StillCold518]

Look farther into it before you automatically assume its "prohormone crap". Not trying to flame, but epi is an active hormone on it's own, doesn't have to convert. So, by definition it is a steroid.

[10nispro]

it has both Andro and anabolic properties but its andro effects were less effective than its anabolic effects. So it still converts to estrogen unlike what you are thinking. It also contains methyl in its make up which can put a strain on the liver.

and don't worry I didn't consider you flaming. You should read and research more before you decide to jump into the real steroids.

plus your are to young to be even using hormones or any type of steroid

[StillCold518]

it has both Andro and anabolic properties but its andro effects were less effective than its anabolic effects. So it still converts to estrogen unlike what you are thinking. It also contains methyl in its make up which can put a strain on the liver.

and don't worry I didn't consider you flaming. You should read and research more before you decide to jump into the real steroids.

plus your are to young to be even using hormones or any type of steroid

I don't plan on using real gear for a long while. And yes, I'm well aware of the strain it puts on your liver. Supplementing as good as I can for that. But, still learning my man..So when it is time to use gear, I'll have done my research

[10nispro]

but why take the chance of messing up your endocrine system?

[flyinghoe]

it has both Andro and anabolic properties but its andro effects were less effective than its anabolic effects. So it still converts to estrogen unlike what you are thinking. It also contains methyl in its make up which can put a strain on the liver.

and don't worry I didn't consider you flaming. You should read and research more before you decide to jump into the real steroids.

plus your are to young to be even using hormones or any type of steroid

you're right, hes a bit young to use steroids, however, the first few sentences make no sense. epistane cannot convert to estrogen as it is 5a-reduced. no dht derived steroid has the ability to aromatise. androgenic/anabolic properties have nothing to do with whether it converts to estrogens or not. op, as you already know, epistane is a fully active AAS, and the majority of steroid.com does not recommend cycling below the age of 25.

[StillCold518]

Just because there is a chance I could, doesn't mean I will. If it happens it happens, and that will be my own fault and I'll have to deal with it. Atleast by putting up this log people can learn from my experience rather I make mistakes or not. Once again, not trying to flame my man, and I don't want to argue with you about why Im taking my cycle, just trying to inform others. But I appreciate you looking out for the members of the forum brotha. If theres anything you want to recommend to me for a cycle, or to help me through this one besides "don't do it" then I'd be more than happy to hear it.

[The Bear 79]

"If it happens it happens"?!?! WTF?!?!? Thats just fvcking retarded, y would be so careless about potential permanent health problems?!?! Not 2 mention, u only hav 2 yrs training experience, u havnt even begun 2 top out natyy. Y not just b patient, heed good advice, & avoid a whole world of permanent regret. You'll get there bro, don't b in such hurry, ur gona fvck urself up. BTW, in ur 1st post u say ur 22, but ur profile sez ur 21 & 23...............which is it? Not that it matters, either way ur 2 yung, but lieing wont get u anywhere here, u WILL, however loose a lot of credibility.

[StillCold518]

"If it happens it happens"?!?! WTF?!?!? Thats just fvcking retarded, y would be so careless about potential permanent health problems?!?! Not 2 mention, u only hav 2 yrs training experience, u havnt even begun 2 top out natyy. Y not just b patient, heed good advice, & avoid a whole world of permanent regret. You'll get there bro, don't b in such hurry, ur gona fvck urself up. BTW, in ur 1st post u say ur 22, but ur profile sez ur 21 & 23...............which is it? Not that it matters, either way ur 2 yung, but lieing wont get u anywhere here, u WILL, however loose a lot of credibility.

I'm 22, I just quickly through together my profile last night at work. Haven't had time to put it together. Like I said, it's a log, not a place for you to tell me how 'retarded' I am.

[The Bear 79]

by MARCUS 300


The young and Steroids

Due to the recent number of PM's ive been receiving regarding age and steroids I thought i'd write this thread to try and help some of our younger members. Ive also been having a conversation with my Endocrinologist who may give a more profession opinion on the subject:

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding . Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

[The Bear 79]

also by, MARCUS300



AAS: Things to consider before starting a first cycle (Great Read)

This is a article I wrote for MD online, due to all the newbies around here i feel I should post it here.



Discipline and dedication are principles that you are going to have to master if you are serious about bodybuilding , being consistent with your diet and training will help you succeed in achieving your goals. Don't have tunnel vision in thinking you will only build muscle if your taking AAS, below are some of the main principles you need to consider before taking any AAS


AGE
In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age. There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with symptoms of andropause and HRT for life. Symptoms could be Limp dick, low libido, depression, low energy, low endurance, erection problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

Around this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and don't take the risk of damage, I am passionate about this because ive seen it many times with young kids wanting to looking like their heroes and they think the answer is in an injection /tablet.

Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.



TRAINING
You need a few years of hard training under your belt before even considering taking any kind of anabolic support, people who jump on a cycle to soon without having some quality years under their belt usually results in injuries, it takes time to develop your connective tissue, tendons and nervous system to heavy overload training. Slowly getting your own system use to these kinds of extreme's will only help in muscle growth later on when you do decide to start taking AAS.

Build a solid foundation for muscle tissue to grow and maintaining and development will be far greater than without it. Many younger guys will start cycling before they have reached their genetic potential which is crazy when a good solid diet and training program will be far beneficial and productive to muscle building.

Workouts should be mainly focused on basic movements with a priority of over loading the muscle each and ever time you train, increasing your strength and ability to lift in proper form will help with building the foundation for future development


DIET
A lot of younger bodybuilders don't know how to eat. Researching and understanding how your own body responds will help you get to your natural limit, the right food at the right time and a full understanding of proteins,carbs, and fats will only help you succeed in achieving your natural goals. Keeping a diet diary will also help you understand the importance of macro, nutrients, calories and should help you see in which areas you could be going wrong in adding lean muscle tissue.

No matter how much anabolic support you have it will be worthless without proper nutrition , food will help build and maintain your valued muscle weather its natural, cycling or in PCT . Adjusting your food intake and consuming muscle building foods coupled with a solid training program will help you achieve your natural limit and foundation before you start AAS use.

This area is a huge problem with the younger guys and I can't express enough how important diet /food is when first starting out, post and pre training nutrition are very important and understanding how to load and feed the body will help push growth and create a very natural anabolic environment.

[gixxerboy1]

Look farther into it before you automatically assume its "prohormone crap". Not trying to flame, but epi is an active hormone on it's own, doesn't have to convert. So, by definition it is a steroid.

I don't plan on using real gear for a long while. And yes, I'm well aware of the strain it puts on your liver. Supplementing as good as I can for that. But, still learning my man..So when it is time to use gear, I'll have done my research

which one is it?

[StillCold518]

which one is it?

Epi is a mild designer steroid, by real gear I mean dbol and test.

[gixxerboy1]

epi is crap. And your probably going to mess yourself up by taking it

[StillCold518]

epi is crap. And your probably going to mess yourself up by taking it

Few of my buddies that took it seem to like it. Gained solid lean mass.

[SufferToReturnHarder]

Too young for this, not worth it really. I had a buddy who used it, he did make some gains, but he knew exactly what he was doing and he was probably 5 years older.

[dec11]

Just because there is a chance I could, doesn't mean I will. If it happens it happens, and that will be my own fault and I'll have to deal with it. Atleast by putting up this log people can learn from my experience rather I make mistakes or not. Once again, not trying to flame my man, and I don't want to argue with you about why Im taking my cycle, just trying to inform others. But I appreciate you looking out for the members of the forum brotha. If theres anything you want to recommend to me for a cycle, or to help me through this one besides "don't do it" then I'd be more than happy to hear it.

a casual approach to health to say the least.

'dont do it' is all you will hear from reputable members on here, choosing to follow the disreputable will be your choice and mistake

[SufferToReturnHarder]

It looks like he already started it =(

[StillCold518]

It looks like he already started it =(

Yes I did...Ookay, you guys might be right, what should I do now? I've only recently started my second week, quit now and go on nolva? How should I dose it?

[The Bear 79]

Yes, quit NOW. Standard Nolva PCT is 40/40/20/20/ but since u hav only been on 2 wks u MAY not need a full PCT, dont quote me on that, I'm not positive. I'll let 1 of the vets field that 1, but yes, quit now.

[dec11]

Yes I did...Ookay, you guys might be right, what should I do now? I've only recently started my second week, quit now and go on nolva? How should I dose it?

im not a prohormone versed member, but id think after just one week, you wouldnt require a PCT. wait for other responses to clarify.

and fair dues for listening to us

[SufferToReturnHarder]

According to his first post he just started his second week yesterday..Meaning two days dosed at 30 going by his cycle dosage..I doubt he would even need a pct..Maybe a week or two at the most.

[StillCold518]

I've got a lot to learn still. Dang.

[dec11]

I've got a lot to learn still. Dang.

we all are constantly learning

[The Bear 79]

I've got a lot to learn still. Dang.

Good lad, u wont regret this decision bro. Now dive in2 this forum head 1st & swim in its knowledge! Learn, learn, learn.

[SufferToReturnHarder]

Don't feel bad man. I joined this forum to learn man...I really doubt a pct at this point is even needed though...But, I'm no expert.

[10nispro]

run the nolva pct bear79 put up and get your body back on the right track.

never to you for flaming. Glad you want to do things correctly. Most of us on here are here to help others from our experiences and knowledge.

get some more training in natty, eat like a wild banished and when its time to try gear you will be knowledgeable and get the max from your cycle

[StillCold518]

Can the nolva effect me in negative ways? I should really use such a long cycle after only a week and 2 days of a low dose ph cycle?

[StillCold518]

Also, its liquid Tamoxifen Citrate, should I mix it in with juice or water?

[The Bear 79]

It will shrink ur boobs, but that shouldn't b a problem, bikini season is pretty much over anyway.

[dec11]

Also, its liquid Tamoxifen Citrate, should I mix it in with juice or water?

id be more inclined to injest it from the dropper and wash it down with juice, that way you'd be getting all of the dose for certain

[10nispro]

you can always play it by ear and start a pct if you think you aren't recovering. Give it a week and if you think something is up or your unsure post your thoughts and help will be headed your way

[StillCold518]

It will shrink ur boobs, but that shouldn't b a problem, bikini season is pretty much over anyway.

Haha seriously though man, now im in serious need of help =/

[StillCold518]

you can always play it by ear and start a pct if you think you aren't recovering. Give it a week and if you think something is up or your unsure post your thoughts and help will be headed your way

I appreciate it a lot guys. Seriously. What are some signs that would show im not recovering properly? Once again, I thank you. Take me under your wings!

[dec11]

I appreciate it a lot guys. Seriously. What are some signs that would show im not recovering properly? Once again, I thank you. Take me under your wings!

i'd doubt you wont recover fully

[StillCold518]

i'd doubt you wont recover fully

So wait a week, and see how things are looking? If im developing gyno, hit up the pct and come back to the forums?