Cycle Advice

[ABUSER]

Any Advice on this next cycle???

***All measurements are stated in miligrams***

16 week cycle

Test Enanthate 500 (250 twice a week) for weeks 1-10

Deca Durabolin 400 per week for weeks 1-10

Test Propionate Begin week 11 at 50 on WED,75 on FRI, 100 on SUN, then week 12 will be 100 on Tues. then 150 EOD thereafter through week 16 (purpose of tapering up is because of enanthate still in system)

Winstrol 50 ED for weeks 11 - 16

HCG 300 E3d throughout cycle, then Third to last and 2nd to last weeks (weeks 14 and 15) of test prop/winny I plan to inject HCG at 500 ED, then last week of test prop/winny I will stop HCG for 7 days before PCT

Clomid (4 weeks beginning 3 days after last Test Prop Injection)
300 D1,
100 D2-D10,
50 D11-D20,
25 D21-D30

Nolvadex (10 MG ED throughout cycle, 20 mg during 2 weeks of HCG overload and then schedule below begins 3 days after last Test Prop injection)
100 D1,
60 D2-D10,
40 D11-D20,
20 D21-D30

Plan to continue Nolva for two following weeks, essentially week 21 at 20 mg ED and week 22 10 mg ED...

[Livinlean]

Seems overly complicated IMO what is your cycle history

[ABUSER]

almost 24 years old, probably done 6 cycles or so, usually consisted of test equipoise and then winny near the end. I think where you may find it slightly complicated would be Week10/week11 where I switch from enanthate to propionate. The reason for this is because I find it easier to transition to PCT when I am using the fast acting/shorter half life AAS.

[ABUSER]

And as far as HCG and PCT, I don't like to compromise these two aspects as I know quite a few people that have done it incorrectly and ended up on TRT.

[ThatAthlete82]

That's a pretty hardcore cycle for a 24 year old.

[Livinlean]

If youu find it easier to transition from short ester to pct I wont argue with cause you obviously know your body better than I do.

But 4 cycles by the age of 24? Seems on the high side. What are your states? height weight bf% etc.

[ABUSER]

hardcore as in length I assume? Maybe I should decrease test E/deca to 8 weeks and test P/winny to 4 weeks and shorten cycle to 12 weeks total? I'm open to suggestions. By the way, my past cycles have all been 12 weeks with no side effects except for gyno on first cycle because I was uneducated on the matter. I'm 5'7, 210, injured my shoulder 6 months ago and havnt done much since so my bf% is not great. However, I'm not worried about bf% because I have learned that just 2 months on test and I will be shredded, at least the way my body reacts to it. I'm sure everyone is different. That is with a correct diet of course...

[Livinlean]

Why not do test e 8 weeks deca 10 weeks and prop 4 weeks?

[ABUSER]

I could do that, but from I've read about deca and deca dick, I was under the impression that I needed to be on test at least 4 weeks after the cessation of deca in order to avoid unwanted sexual sides...

[ABUSER]

Truthfully this is the only outside advice I have looked for about this cycle. Do you think that 16 weeks is too long? Should I try and do it in 12 weeks instead?

[Livinlean]

To avoid deca dick im pretty sure its 2 weeks not 4. Yea I would say 16weeks is too long at a younger age. You seem worried about ever being on trt so I would stay away from that for now.

[ABUSER]

Sounds good, appreciate it. Just to be safe, since sex is something I cannot afford to sacrifice, I think Ill do 8 weeks test E, 9 weeks deca, and 4 weeks prop/winny... total 12 weeks... hcg and pct administration will be adjusted accordingly.

[The Bear 79]

23 is too young to be using steroids, even if ur "almost 24". Having done so many cycles already has probably contributed 2 the fact that ur only 5'-7" & has mor than likely caused other, potentially irreversible problems / damage u don't even know about yet.

[stpete]

23 is too young to be using steroids, even if ur "almost 24". Having done so many cycles already has probably contributed 2 the fact that ur only 5'-7" & has mor than likely caused other, potentially irreversible problems / damage u don't even know about yet.

Agreed

[ABUSER]

So at what age are you "old enough" to take a cycle of steroids?

[chuckt12345]

looks pretty solid to me

[The Bear 79]

So at what age are you "old enough" to take a cycle of steroids?

25.....................

[ABUSER]

BTW, my mother is 5'3'' and my father is 5'10''. Moreover, I started taking steroids/prohormones at the age of 20, how much taller do most people get after the age of 20? With regard to the other "problems" that you mention but do not go into detail about, will these so called problems be any different for someone at the age of, lets say 28? And from what I have learned is that the people that do steroids in their older age tend to have a harder time recovering, and in many cases, they don't so they just get on TRT the rest of their lives... I imagine you are one of those people... I take it you have done a few steroid cycles without much thought or preparation and really messed yourself up on them...

[ABUSER]

haha, 25 even better

[ABUSER]

so one year and a few months and I'll be ready huh?

[The Bear 79]

so one year and a few months and I'll be ready huh?

I don't know if YOU will b ready, but @ that age the risk of damage 2 ur Endocrine system is practically nil.

[AnabolicJ]

That's a pretty hardcore cycle for a 24 year old.

i agree

[The Bear 79]

BTW, my mother is 5'3'' and my father is 5'10''. Moreover, I started taking steroids/prohormones at the age of 20, how much taller do most people get after the age of 20? With regard to the other "problems" that you mention but do not go into detail about, will these so called problems be any different for someone at the age of, lets say 28? And from what I have learned is that the people that do steroids in their older age tend to have a harder time recovering, and in many cases, they don't so they just get on TRT the rest of their lives... I imagine you are one of those people... I take it you have done a few steroid cycles without much thought or preparation and really messed yourself up on them...

Easy killer, loose the attitude, I'm just tryin 2 help. At the age of "let's say 28" there is no risk of damage to the Endo. No I'm NOT on TRT, I hav cycled 4 times & hav never had any problems, (including recovery) other some some mild Gyno (during cycle) which was quickly alleviated with an AI. And YES, I've had blood work done MANY MANY times, full panel, I'm good. And even if I did mess myself up, y would u NOT heed the advice of some1 thats been there & is tryn 2 save from the same future? I did over 2 yrs or research b4 my 1st cycle BTW. Calm down & do some research on the Endocrine system. I wasn't takin a cheap shot @ u bein short, it was just an assumed side effect of u cycling too early.

[chuckt12345]

At the age of "let's say 28" there is no risk of damage to the Endo.

Risk of damage to endo at any age.

[The Bear 79]

Here's a valuable piece to get you started on your research.

By Marcuss300

AAS: Things to consider before starting a first cycle (Great Read)

This is a article I wrote for MD online, due to all the newbies around here i feel I should post it here.



Discipline and dedication are principles that you are going to have to master if you are serious about bodybuilding , being consistent with your diet and training will help you succeed in achieving your goals. Don't have tunnel vision in thinking you will only build muscle if your taking AAS, below are some of the main principles you need to consider before taking any AAS


AGE
In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age. There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with symptoms of andropause and HRT for life. Symptoms could be Limp dick, low libido, depression, low energy, low endurance, erection problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

Around this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and don't take the risk of damage, I am passionate about this because ive seen it many times with young kids wanting to looking like their heroes and they think the answer is in an injection /tablet.

Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.



TRAINING
You need a few years of hard training under your belt before even considering taking any kind of anabolic support, people who jump on a cycle to soon without having some quality years under their belt usually results in injuries, it takes time to develop your connective tissue, tendons and nervous system to heavy overload training. Slowly getting your own system use to these kinds of extreme's will only help in muscle growth later on when you do decide to start taking AAS.

Build a solid foundation for muscle tissue to grow and maintaining and development will be far greater than without it. Many younger guys will start cycling before they have reached their genetic potential which is crazy when a good solid diet and training program will be far beneficial and productive to muscle building.

Workouts should be mainly focused on basic movements with a priority of over loading the muscle each and ever time you train, increasing your strength and ability to lift in proper form will help with building the foundation for future development


DIET
A lot of younger bodybuilders don't know how to eat. Researching and understanding how your own body responds will help you get to your natural limit, the right food at the right time and a full understanding of proteins,carbs, and fats will only help you succeed in achieving your natural goals. Keeping a diet diary will also help you understand the importance of macro, nutrients, calories and should help you see in which areas you could be going wrong in adding lean muscle tissue.

No matter how much anabolic support you have it will be worthless without proper nutrition , food will help build and maintain your valued muscle weather its natural, cycling or in PCT . Adjusting your food intake and consuming muscle building foods coupled with a solid training program will help you achieve your natural limit and foundation before you start AAS use.

This area is a huge problem with the younger guys and I can't express enough how important diet /food is when first starting out, post and pre training nutrition are very important and understanding how to load and feed the body will help push growth and create a very natural anabolic environment.

[The Bear 79]

At the age of "let's say 28" there is no risk of damage to the Endo.

Risk of damage to endo at any age.

Rite. Scratch that statement, I didn't mean "NO" risk, I meant less risk, MUCH less, to Endo & HPTA. Sorry bout that chuck, good catch.