tren on a second cycle ??

**flyguy6661** · 10-18-2011, 12:24 PM

tren is the steroid i dont know too much about but i always seem to hear good things about it in the way of strength/size/fat loss etc etc, and no estrogen sides either, true ?? what do you guys think of tren and would you give the thumbs up on using tren for a second cycle ?? first being prop & var second possible thinking enathate & tren.
cheers

**3863** · 10-18-2011, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by flyguy6661

tren is the steroid i dont know too much about but i always seem to hear good things about it in the way of strength/size/fat loss etc etc, and no estrogen sides either, true ?? what do you guys think of tren and would you give the thumbs up on using tren for a second cycle ?? first being prop & var second possible thinking enathate & tren.
cheers

Tren is a nasty compound and not for a 2nd cycle IMO. Should be kept for the more advanced bodybuilder. It will pack on a lot of mass in a short space of time with the correct diet. Bodybuilding is not a race.

Save it for another cycle and go with Test again, with an oral.

**Arnold jr** · 10-18-2011, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by 3863

Tren is a nasty compound and not for a 2nd cycle IMO. Should be kept for the more advanced bodybuilder. It will pack on a lot of mass in a short space of time with the correct diet. Bodybuilding is not a race.

Save it for another cycle and go with Test again, with an oral.

I understand why a lot of people say Tren can be a nasty or harsh steroid due to the possible side-effects but what I don't understand is why so many seem to think it's going to make a difference in a 2nd or 3rd cycle or the 20th cycle. Now don't misunderstand me I'm not a fan of recommending someone to take Tren in their first cycle, it can be a harsh compound and it's usually better to start with more tolerable items to see how you respond.

Even so the truth to me is simple, side-effects aside Trenbolone -Acetate is the greatest steroid ever made, there's no steroid as potent and equally versatile as Tren-a. As for the side-effects, regardless of when you use it, how early on in your cycle history, if you're taking a reasonable yet responsible dose and have problems you're going to have problems be it your 3rd cycle or 100th cycle....more than likely your toleration is not going to change that much....if you're sensitive to insomnia and anxtiey, etc. you're simply going to be sensitive whenever you take it. Granted, and I'm only repeating myself because I understand the mantra many on this particular board live by, I'm not saying someone should take Tren in their 1st or 2nd cycle...I guess all I'm implying is that general blanket statements are simply that, general and I rarely see anyone post such statements with any true reasoning behind them. That's not a shot at anyone in particular, I'm a pretty easy going guy and am not one for getting into ridiculous arguments, it's simply the way I see things.

**chuckt12345** · 10-18-2011, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Arnold jr;5***124

I understand why a lot of people say Tren can be a nasty or harsh steroid due to the possible side-effects but what I don't understand is why so many seem to think it's going to make a difference in a 2nd or 3rd cycle or the 20th cycle. Now don't misunderstand me I'm not a fan of recommending someone to take Tren in their first cycle, it can be a harsh compound and it's usually better to start with more tolerable items to see how you respond.

Even so the truth to me is simple, side-effects aside Trenbolone-Acetate is the greatest steroid ever made, there's no steroid as potent and equally versatile as Tren-a. As for the side-effects, regardless of when you use it, how early on in your cycle history, if you're taking a reasonable yet responsible dose and have problems you're going to have problems be it your 3rd cycle or 100th cycle....more than likely your toleration is not going to change that much....if you're sensitive to insomnia and anxtiey, etc. you're simply going to be sensitive whenever you take it. Granted, and I'm only repeating myself because I understand the mantra many on this particular board live by, I'm not saying someone should take Tren in their 1st or 2nd cycle...I guess all I'm implying is that general blanket statements are simply that, general and I rarely see anyone post such statements with any true reasoning behind them. That's not a shot at anyone in particular, I'm a pretty easy going guy and am not one for getting into ridiculous arguments, it's simply the way I see things.

i agree

**Swifto** · 10-18-2011, 04:06 PM

This is a tricky one and as I am still yet to use Tren A/E, I cant comment from experience.

From others experience, if the right precautions are not taken, then one can run into large problems, most importantly damaging their HPTA. I have helped people back from Deca and Tren cycles where they have used either compound once and never returned to baseline testosterone levels . That due in part for not using HCG , nor doing PCT correctly. SOme have never recovered at all, years after using Trebbolone and Nandrolone esters. Thats where I feel caution needs to be taken with both of them.

Tren is harsh on the liver, kidney's, lipids, HPTA, moreso than anything else from information gathered from clients, friends and online over 7 or so years.

Why not use harsher more toxic compounds when you have exhausted other avaneus, such as far more milder compounds? My reasoning (personally) is not because I am concerned about restarting my HPTA post Tren/Nandrolone use, but more that I still dont feel I have reached the level of development that warrants their use. Thats my reasoning.

One should be introduced to steroids by using mild compounds, such as Var, Tbol, Dbol , Hdrol. And then a pattern should be followed due to health reasons. Why use Tren for the first time at 100mg/EOD at 220lbs, when you can use other compounds that are less damaging to ones health, THEN try Tren at 240lbs at 100mg/EOD.

Just seems logical to me, but some people are in a rush.

**flyguy6661** · 10-18-2011, 04:09 PM

so are you saying that deca can be just as harsh as tren , just im thinking for my second cycle
enanthate 500mg e,w week 1-14
deca 500mg e,w week 1-10

but then i thought i could try using tren with my enanthate, but would you say deca would be a better choise to go with on a second cycle yea ?
cheers

**xelnaga** · 10-18-2011, 04:17 PM

My former friend had a crazy experience with tren . About 7 years ago he ran a cycle of tren only. He was on week 8 when he had a complete mental break down. Went from being a very happy type a personality; to a complete depression case. He eventually stopped out of the blue, didnt even run the pct he purchased. Dropped from 220, solid, to 140. He never recovered. Gave up on all of his goal, dropped out, smokes a lot of pot.

**Arnold jr** · 10-18-2011, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by flyguy6661;5***139

so are you saying that deca can be just as harsh as tren , just im thinking for my second cycle
enanthate 500mg e,w week 1-14
deca 500mg e,w week 1-10

but then i thought i could try using tren with my enanthate, but would you say deca would be a better choise to go with on a second cycle yea ?
cheers

He's saying Deca and Tren are both very suppressive to testosterone , I don't think he's comparing them apples for apples in-terms of total possible side-effects...at least I don't think he is.

**Swifto** · 10-18-2011, 04:24 PM

Well...

19-nors inhibit the HPTA in a matter of days, not weeks when compared to testosterone derived steroids .

I've often wondered why 19-Nors cause such massive problems for some and I think its a combination of issues.

Direct effects on the brain.

Direct effects on the tesis (prolactin)

Strucure of 19-Nors.

That said, I think they're safe to use but take precautions. By that, I mean use HCG 250ius 2-3x week when on and an AI. Not substitutes, ever. Also limit their use. Dont stay on Deca for 6 months for example, HCG or not, nor Tren for extended peroids.

**Arnold jr** · 10-18-2011, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto;5***135

This is a tricky one and as I am still yet to use Tren A/E, I cant comment from experience.

From others experience, if the right precautions are not taken, then one can run into large problems, most importantly damaging their HPTA. I have helped people back from Deca and Tren cycles where they have used either compound once and never returned to baseline testosterone levels . That due in part for not using HCG , nor doing PCT correctly. SOme have never recovered at all, years after using Trebbolone and Nandrolone esters. Thats where I feel caution needs to be taken with both of them.

Tren is harsh on the liver, kidney's, lipids, HPTA, moreso than anything else from information gathered from clients, friends and online over 7 or so years.

Why not use harsher more toxic compounds when you have exhausted other avaneus, such as far more milder compounds? My reasoning (personally) is not because I am concerned about restarting my HPTA post Tren/Nandrolone use, but more that I still dont feel I have reached the level of development that warrants their use. Thats my reasoning.

One should be introduced to steroids by using mild compounds, such as Var, Tbol, Dbol , Hdrol. And then a pattern should be followed due to health reasons. Why use Tren for the first time at 100mg/EOD at 220lbs, when you can use other compounds that are less damaging to ones health, THEN try Tren at 240lbs at 100mg/EOD.

Just seems logical to me, but some people are in a rush.

Good post and a lot of good points.

I do think it's always important though to consider individual goals. This board has a lot of good information, it's definitely one of the better steroid boards out there but a lot of the information is in my opinion too generalized. For example, individual goals can play a massive role in how one views the risk to reward ratios....it doesn't change the actuality but it can change the desired path. Of course ones health is always a concern or at least it should be a concern but many are willing to take a risk in order to meet a certain end....sometimes they fare well, sometimes they don't but such is the case in many things in life and that includes so many things, not just steroids.

In my case, I have a competitive bodybuilding background and so do the majority of those I associate with. When you're in that circle you'll find most are normally going to take larger risk than those who are outside of this particular circle. Is it necessary? In the general scheme of life absolutely not, in the general scheme of competitive bodybuilding it absolutely is if that is an end the individual desires. It doesn't make it the best rout to take in-terms of health but it is the reality of the situation the individual has put there-self in. In the end only that individual can weigh the risk, he should be aware of the risk and then be allowed to make his own decision as if the possible risk is worth the reward.

In the case of Tren, if the individual happens to be one who is a part or wants to be a part of the circle I mentioned, then absolutely, it's going to necessarily be part of the equation if he wants to advance. Again, this doesn't mean he has to do it but he should still be told and made aware of the reality so as to not be left with disappointment.

**Swifto** · 10-18-2011, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by xelnaga;5***149

My former friend had a crazy experience with tren. About 7 years ago he ran a cycle of tren only. He was on week 8 when he had a complete mental break down. Went from being a very happy type a personality; to a complete depression case. He eventually stopped out of the blue, didnt even run the pct he purchased. Dropped from 220, solid, to 140. He never recovered. Gave up on all of his goal, dropped out, smokes a lot of pot.

Sounds like his endogenous T is rock bottom. Probably depressed, low labido, energy levels, confidence. And to add, smoking pot will further inhibit endogenous function.

He should stop and go get BW done.

I have forgotten how many cases I have tried to help that have used Deca OR Tren ALONE and fallen victim to this. Not a total mental breakdown, but serious sexual side effects posts use.

**flyguy6661** · 10-18-2011, 04:27 PM

cheers swifto
in your mind do you think deca and tren are as bad as eachother then for how hard they shut you down etc, and if you were to choose for a 2nd cycle which one you think you would go for. tren vs deca ??

**xelnaga** · 10-18-2011, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto;5***163

Sounds like his endogenous T is rock bottom. Probably depressed, low labido, energy levels, confidence. And to add, smoking pot will further inhibit endogenous function.

He should stop and go get BW done.

I have forgotten how many cases I have tried to help that have used Deca OR Tren ALONE and fallen victim to this. Not a total mental breakdown, but serious sexual side effects posts use.

This was many years ago; we no longer talk. Working out, eating, and shooting the breeze about BB used to be our commonalities.

**Swifto** · 10-18-2011, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Arnold jr;5***162

Good post and a lot of good points.

I do think it's always important though to consider individual goals. This board has a lot of good information, it's definitely one of the better steroid boards out there but a lot of the information is in my opinion too generalized. For example, individual goals can play a massive role in how one views the risk to reward ratios....it doesn't change the actuality but it can change the desired path. Of course ones health is always a concern or at least it should be a concern but many are willing to take a risk in order to meet a certain end....sometimes they fare well, sometimes they don't but such is the case in many things in life and that includes so many things, not just steroids .

In my case, I have a competitive bodybuilding background and so do the majority of those I associate with. When you're in that circle you'll find most are normally going to take larger risk than those who are outside of this particular circle. Is it necessary? In the general scheme of life absolutely not, in the general scheme of competitive bodybuilding it absolutely is if that is an end the individual desires. It doesn't make it the best rout to take in-terms of health but it is the reality of the situation the individual has put there-self in. In the end only that individual can weigh the risk, he should be aware of the risk and then be allowed to make his own decision as if the possible risk is worth the reward.

In the case of Tren, if the individual happens to be one who is a part or wants to be a part of the circle I mentioned, then absolutely, it's going to necessarily be part of the equation if he wants to advance. Again, this doesn't mean he has to do it but he should still be told and made aware of the reality so as to not be left with disappointment.

Good post and I see where you are coming from.

The goals of the individual should determine their cycles and also their health. But both need to be balanced and steps need to be taken to pretect oneself against side effects as I've stated before.

When you get into the competitive side of things, many on stage are playing a drugs game. If your eating perfectly, training perfectly, the only variable left is drugs and thats what bb's nowadays use as their main weapon.

You should stick around. 75 posts since 2008. Where the f*ck have you been hiding?!

Originally Posted by flyguy6661;5***164

cheers swifto
in your mind do you think deca and tren are as bad as eachother then for how hard they shut you down etc, and if you were to choose for a 2nd cycle which one you think you would go for. tren vs deca ??

Deca .

But this again depends on your goals, stats, age. Why cant you do a cycle of Test+oral? Why do you have to increase the Test dose.

Please search for a thread I started regarding "growing into your dose". May have to google it.

**Arnold jr** · 10-18-2011, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto;5***178

Good post and I see where you are coming from.

The goals of the individual should determine their cycles and also their health. But both need to be balanced and steps need to be taken to pretect oneself against side effects as I've stated before.

When you get into the competitive side of things, many on stage are playing a drugs game. If your eating perfectly, training perfectly, the only variable left is drugs and thats what bb's nowadays use as their main weapon.

You should stick around. 75 posts since 2008. Where the f*ck have you been hiding?!

I agree, just because an individual is willing to take a larger risk doesn't mean he should throw all caution to the wind. For example, I'm a big fan of AI's, more so during contest prep as such periods are often harsher but I'm also a fan of them during bulking periods even though I know a lot of guys who are not. A lot of people hate AI's and SERM's during the off-season out of a fear of them hindering the amount of weight gained and they may indeed slow it down a little but not as much as many seem to think and protecting against estrogenic related issues is far more important than a few extra pounds.

My biggest thing though beyond things like AI's, hCG or whatever else you can think of is simply living a generally healthy lifestyle....I truly believe this will do more for you in the long run than anything else. This is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of regular alcohol consumption if you're a steroid user....actually, I'm not a fan of it even if you're not.

....and yes, whether it's a good or bad thing PED's are the end all be all in competitive bodybuilding. Even so, perhaps more important than anything is ones individual response to the various hormones....perfect diet and training and even with all the PED's in the world, if you're not a great responder and genetically blessed you're not going to go very far...at least not as far as many wish they would.

Yeah, I haven't done a lot of posting here over the years. I've been around a lot of other boards quite a bit but in the past when I posted here the board seemed to be a bit anti bodybuilding and it just wasn't a fit for me. Even so, I've lurked off and on for years and there's a lot of good info here no question.