Test Prop Cycle- help please!

[cheeseman]

29 yo
6 "1"
205 lbs
4 years experience
messed around with dbol and m test when i was younger

Hi, was about to take my first test prop cycle, pinning 100mg/EOD. I did some research and decided Im only going to run 4-6 weeks worth. I have some winny that i might run with it but Im on the fence whether I should use win or var. jw if and how I even should stack, and how I should use NOV for pct, being its a short cycle. Thanks for your time!

[dooie]

Not worth it cheesed!ck

Do your research then post again, no one is gonna set ur cycle out for you! If u run test it needs to be at least 8 weeks, most preferably 10-12

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[marcus300]

29 yo
6 "1"
205 lbs
4 years experience
messed around with dbol and m test when i was younger

Hi, was about to take my first test prop cycle, pinning 100mg/EOD. I did some research and decided Im only going to run 4-6 weeks worth. I have some winny that i might run with it but Im on the fence whether I should use win or var. jw if and how I even should stack, and how I should use NOV for pct, being its a short cycle. Thanks for your time!

If its your first cycle stick with one compound, Test P at 100mgs EOD is fine. Check out the pct cetion and read the stickies, your better with nolva and clomid. Also get some HCG for during the cycle and an AI. Best of luck

[t-gunz]

Not worth it cheesed!ck

Do your research then post again, no one is gonna set ur cycle out for you! If u run test it needs to be at least 8 weeks, most preferably 10-12

Sent from my iPad using Forum

no need for names mate.

and using test prop you dont have to run it for 10-12 weeks

you can get away with half that if you prime properly.

so i suggest you do some research

[Lemonada8]

29 yo
6 "1"
205 lbs
4 years experience
messed around with dbol and m test when i was younger

Hi, was about to take my first test prop cycle, pinning 100mg/EOD. I did some research and decided Im only going to run 4-6 weeks worth. I have some winny that i might run with it but Im on the fence whether I should use win or var. jw if and how I even should stack, and how I should use NOV for pct, being its a short cycle. Thanks for your time!

I would go 50mg Ed for 6 weeks, nolva for pct is fine for a first cycle at 40/40/20/20 if u can get some hcg that would be very helpful at 250ius 2x a week on cycle then stop before pct.
I do 7 week cycles of prop and I love it. Pinning is addicting and it's fast acting

[gixxerboy1]

Not worth it cheesed!ck

Do your research then post again, no one is gonna set ur cycle out for you! If u run test it needs to be at least 8 weeks, most preferably 10-12

Sent from my iPad using Forum

There is no reason to call names.
Especially when you are the one giving wrong information.

OP. I wouldn't do 4 weeks but 6-8 is fine. I would also just stick with the prop

[cheeseman]

thanks alot bros appreciate it, and sorry (dooie) If I offended you with this post, I have done alot of research obviously I need to do more.

[hankdiesel]

Not worth it cheesed!ck

Do your research then post again, no one is gonna set ur cycle out for you! If u run test it needs to be at least 8 weeks, most preferably 10-12

Sent from my iPad using Forum

WOW! You are something else!

[MR10X]

no need for names mate.

and using test prop you dont have to run it for 10-12 weeks

you can get away with half that if you prime properly.

so i suggest you do some research

I agree 8 weeks is plenty if you put a 100% effort in it for 8 weeks you will see a lot of progress.I havnt seen much in the way of gains after 8 weeks to continue longer,i get off for at least 8 weeks.take a week off then get primed to do another 8 week cycle, it allows my body to fully recover from 8 weeks of intense training and allows my whole body and nervious system to recover.You have to remeber a lot of people here just want to look good for a longer time than 8 weeks and are not too concerned whether they continue to make gains, it all depends on what you want to achieve.You cant stay on for more than 10 or 12 weeks and continue to make progress,your body cant perform at high levels of intensity that long.

[dooie]

Not worth it cheesed!ck

Do your research then post again, no one is gonna set ur cycle out for you! If u run test it needs to be at least 8 weeks, most preferably 10-12

Sent from my iPad using Forum

Wtf.. I honestly didn't write this??? Im really Sorry chessman, I don't understand..
Depending on your money situation, try go 7-8 weeks

Nolva with hcg will be a fine pct for just the test!

I'm so confused

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[stpete]

^^^^ Really? Ad you're telling him to run HCG and Nolva for his PCT? You need to sit back and learn instead of dispensing bad advice!

[MR10X]

Dont know who started the dont use HCG during PCT thing,but its perfectly acceptable to use it during the first part of PCT to stimulate the balls directly.especially if you have done a long cycle over 8 weeks.HCG has short half life and is out of your system in a few days.Clomid and Nolvadex is used to maintain LH and FSH production which HCG doesnt do.

[Lemonada8]

You dont use HCG during PCT because its counter productive, and when its combined with the SERMs (clomid especially) that it will actually lower the sensitivity to LHRH which means the bioactive LH is being lowered which results in lower test levels and longer recovery
HCG on cycle is used to maintain spermatogensis during exogenous suppression, and try to keep ITT (intratesticular test volume) close to normal which helps keep everything working in the testes.
HCG has a active life of 72 hours, so using it on a pct would be a single shot or maybe 2 shots. If you take a high dose all it will do is lower your response to LHRH, and a single low dose isnt sufficient enough to really make much of a difference.
Clomid and Nolva dont have much play in FSH regulation, FSH is mainly self regulated by inhibitin levels and its slower to be suppressed which is why the main focus is on LH. Along with that LH is more potent in spermatogensis production and is a sign of being in the reproductive stage of aging. FSH is higher during childhood and senescence when fertility is much lower than reproductive age.

[MR10X]

Almost everything you hear or read will be anecdotal and therefore subject to no verification. Experiences with hCG while on TRT are posted. The use of hCG for PCT is only partly related to its use on TRT.

hCG while on TRT is used for two reasons. One reason is cosmetic. While on TRT it is not unusual and more often expected to have testicular atrophy. This is variable from individual to individual. The other reason is to act as a stimulus so the testicles do not shut down and therefore will be easier to initiate independent function after AAS cessation.

Desensitization is a potential problem with hCG. I do not think you will experience it with doses of 500IU or less 3X/week. Studies have used this dose for considerably long periods. In my patients when hCG was used while on AAS the dose was 1000IU every 3 days with one month on hCG followed by one month off hCG.

hCG for PCT involves additional concepts. This is the timing of hCG in relation to other medications for return of HPTA functionality. Under normal conditions the HPTA is a tightly coupled dynamic feedback loop. It is this coupling that has to be achieved after AAS cessation to return to normal.

After AAS cessation the secretion of LH is nil. It will not be able to initiate T production until a certain stimulus LH level is reached. Studies have shown that the time for this to occur can be lengthy. Thus the idea is to ‘push’ the testicles with hCG and get them started. Once T production is initiated the dependent variable is LH. If the hCG is withdrawn without adequate LH to couple with the testicles return of HPTA functionality will fail.

The increased production of LH is achieved by a dual action of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen . Clomiphene is a mixed agonist/antagonist (SERM) at the estradiol receptor. Clomiphene will increase the secretion of LH by action at the hypothalamo-pituitary area. Clomiphene will cause an increase in LH and secondarily increases in T and estradiol. Estradiol has a negative feedback influence on the HPTA. Estradiol is 200X the inhibitory effect of T per molar basis. Normal serum levels are the following:

Testosterone : 3-10 ng/ml (10-35 nM/L)

Estradiol: 15-65 pg/ml (55-240 pmol/L)

Tamoxifen will counteract the effect of the estradiol. Once the hCG is withdrawn the LH, initiated by clomiphene and tamoxifen, will couple with the testicles and take over production of T by the testicles. The levels of LH to maintain and couple with the testicles are maintained by clomiphene and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is continued for 15 days while Tamoxifen is continued for 30 days.

In healthy adult men, circulating levels of testosterone have a distinct pattern, with increasing levels during sleep toward a maximum around the time of awakening and a decrease during the day. In PCT hCG is administered every other day. I suggest the same time each injection in an attempt to simulate this rhythm. This is purely empirical but I recommend hCG at bedtime (2200). Clomiphene is taken in divided doses of 50mg 2X/day.

[MR10X]

Heres a clinical study with actual data for PCT on patients that were first given test and decca for 12 weeks then treated with a doctor monitored blood test and results.Clearly they use HCG during the actual use of clomid and nolvadex . You can use HCG before your last sterid shots to get your balls working and for the first week or 2 of the PCT. I have used this for PCT and it worked very well for me.
http://www.medibolics.com/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

[Lemonada8]

^^ that study is bogus to me, there are no sources indicated in the discussion. How did you get that? from some other forum? how do you know its legit? Any scientific study done like that MUST have sources posted to it to make it accredible. So for now, it seems that some guy made it to prove a point. And it included 2500iu EOD, which is way higher than what is suggested to do here, and would increase desensitivity to LHRH.

And the post before is pure copy and paste, ive read that elsewhere before.
The idea of using HCG is to "push' the testes into production of testosterone , yes. But why wait untill PCT to do so? why not keep then being "pushed" throughout the entire cycle?

And clomidphene is 2 isomers which both have different actions at different sites with different pharmokinetics. The clomiphene will increase the peak of released LH by the pituitary, and somewhat increases the frequency of the peaks. However, with continued stimulation it will lead to LHRH insensivity because it will increase LH, but not bioactive LH.
HCG acts like LH in the male body, however it has a longer life than LH and combined with the stimulation of clomid increases the risk for desensitization.
Then after the clomiphene, you stay on the tamox because it increases LHRH sensivity, and increases frequency of pulses of LH released (moreso than clomid). So in a sense the clomid is used to jumpstart LH production (similar to a clomiphene stimulation test, aka 100mg ED for a week) That, combined with an additional week at 50mg clomid (all with nolva during also) then the following weeks with nolva will Increase LH production then increase LH sensitivity which makes the system more efficient.

[MR10X]

Your not arguing with me,you are arguing with a medical doctor that treats problems with steroid use . you have nothing to back up what you say so it means dick.

[Lemonada8]

^^ So, you are a doctor huh? or someone just parroting what he says?
and yes i actually do have things to back up what i am saying cuz ive done my research.

and if u were a doctor you would actually understand what i said... but your response was a pure attack with no ideas in it. Good job. You = FAIL as a debate.

[gixxerboy1]

Your not arguing with me,you are arguing with a medical doctor that treats problems with steroid use. you have nothing to back up what you say so it means dick.

Just like the other website you linked which had a bunch of bs

[Lemonada8]

Your not arguing with me,you are arguing with a medical doctor that treats problems with steroid use. you have nothing to back up what you say so it means dick.

And that site, if u read about the editor... He is just a writer and editor, no medical training, just a writer that is writing about therapies for AIDS. That combined with no sources on that 'chart' you posted a link to.. pretty much takes away all credibility possible...

[MR10X]

Im not a doctor,one of the persons involved in the study is and has treated over a thousand patients with the protocol in the study.His results are confirmed with blood work as shown. This is written by the doctor involved who oversees one of the forums i visit.....
Almost everything you hear or read will be anecdotal and therefore subject to no verification. Experiences with hCG while on TRT are posted. The use of hCG for PCT is only partly related to its use on TRT .

"HCG while on TRT is used for two reasons. One reason is cosmetic. While on TRT it is not unusual and more often expected to have testicular atrophy. This is variable from individual to individual. The other reason is to act as a stimulus so the testicles do not shut down and therefore will be easier to initiate independent function after AAS cessation.

Desensitization is a potential problem with hCG . I do not think you will experience it with doses of 500IU or less 3X/week. Studies have used this dose for considerably long periods. In my patients when hCG was used while on AAS the dose was 1000IU every 3 days with one month on hCG followed by one month off hCG .

hCG for PCT involves additional concepts. This is the timing of hCG in relation to other medications for return of HPTA functionality. Under normal conditions the HPTA is a tightly coupled dynamic feedback loop. It is this coupling that has to be achieved after AAS cessation to return to normal.

After AAS cessation the secretion of LH is nil. It will not be able to initiate T production until a certain stimulus LH level is reached. Studies have shown that the time for this to occur can be lengthy. Thus the idea is to ‘push’ the testicles with hCG and get them started. Once T production is initiated the dependent variable is LH. If the hCG is withdrawn without adequate LH to couple with the testicles return of HPTA functionality will fail.

The increased production of LH is achieved by a dual action of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen . Clomiphene is a mixed agonist/antagonist (SERM) at the estradiol receptor. Clomiphene will increase the secretion of LH by action at the hypothalamo-pituitary area. Clomiphene will cause an increase in LH and secondarily increases in T and estradiol. Estradiol has a negative feedback influence on the HPTA. Estradiol is 200X the inhibitory effect of T per molar basis. Normal serum levels are the following:

Testosterone : 3-10 ng/ml (10-35 nM/L)

Estradiol: 15-65 pg/ml (55-240 pmol/L)

Tamoxifen will counteract the effect of the estradiol. Once the hCG is withdrawn the LH, initiated by clomiphene and tamoxifen , will couple with the testicles and take over production of T by the testicles. The levels of LH to maintain and couple with the testicles are maintained by clomiphene and tamoxifen . Clomiphene is continued for 15 days while Tamoxifen is continued for 30 days.

In healthy adult men, circulating levels of testosterone have a distinct pattern, with increasing levels during sleep toward a maximum around the time of awakening and a decrease during the day. In PCT hCG is administered every other day. I suggest the same time each injection in an attempt to simulate this rhythm. This is purely empirical but I recommend hCG at bedtime (2200). Clomiphene is taken in divided doses of 50mg 2X/day."

[Lemonada8]

The "study' you posted is not from that site that a TRT doc oversees, it is from a journalistic site with articles.
There was a 'discussion' on the link you posted also. Rule #1 is make sure to cite your sources, for 2 reasons: Credibility and Copyright issues. That had neither.
So you re-copy/post what you have already said...


You should let that doc make the points you are trying to make, you cant defend them w/o saying 'a doctor said that' ... That makes you a "parrot". So good Day Mr. Parrot, you have no say in the matter other than to directly quote someone else.

SQUAK SQUAK