First cycle for this old man...lol, and first post :-)

**BigBadBen** · 11-16-2011, 11:49 AM

Stats:
50 years old
175 lbs
5'9"

I crosstrain, so free weights, T-mill, multigym, Plyo, bands and mix it up all the time so as not to plateau. WO at least 5 days a week.

I have been working out for the past 10 years and am in very good shape for my age, in fact the best I have ever been in my life!

Goals: Add some size, strength and definition.

I want to start out slow to see how my body reacts to all this!

10 week cycle

Per Week
Test Cyp 1 ml 300mg/ml...revised from 250mg/ml

Per Day
Var 50 mg
GH 1.5 iu on wake, 1.5 pre or post, I mix it up. Total 3 iu a day. Not pharma, so please don't flame me

Per day
During cycle
Nolvadex 40 mg
Proviron 25 mg

Per day
PCT
Clomid 40 mg

Lastly, I have a selection of the following that can be added if you see fit but most likely not needed.

Clen
T3
ECA stack

Thanks all for your help.

Ben

**marcus300** · 11-16-2011, 11:59 AM

Are you sure you want to go down this route? have you tried swapping your diet around and adding supps like creatine etc to your daily intake?

Have you had blood work done to see what your test levels are like?

**JohnnyVegas** · 11-16-2011, 12:49 PM

Welcome to the forum.

As Marcus says, I would recommend having blood work to see how your natural Test levels are doing. Then I would start talking to the guys in the nutrition section since it doesn't sound like your goal is to get huge.

Congrats on staying fit. I am in my 40s and know that it can be tough "at our age."

**BigBadBen** · 11-16-2011, 01:12 PM

Hello Marcus,

I am taking creatine as well as 2-3 protein shakes a day depending on my routine.

I have been trying to upload my blood work as a reference but the PDF's are too large....grrr. I did not have my Test, tested on my last go round but I will now...thanks.

Hey Johnny, thanks for the welcome...much appreciated.

**BigBadBen** · 11-16-2011, 01:57 PM

Anything else I need to test for? Getting blood work done this afternoon.

**MR10X** · 11-16-2011, 02:05 PM

If you want to gain muscle as fast as possible,which i think you do because you want to use steroids .You might want to get into a serious bodybuilding routine doing the basic mass building exercises like bench press ,incline press,squats,leg presses,lat pulldowns and basic arm exercises in sets and reps. I am 65 and that what i do and have been doing for 30 years,I do all body parts once a week.

**marcus300** · 11-16-2011, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by BigBadBen;580***5

Hello Marcus,

I am taking creatine as well as 2-3 protein shakes a day depending on my routine.

I have been trying to upload my blood work as a reference but the PDF's are too large....grrr. I did not have my Test, tested on my last go round but I will now...thanks.

Hey Johnny, thanks for the welcome...much appreciated.

It would help us if you could give us your test level and see what you have naturally.

**Kansas City Boy** · 11-16-2011, 03:20 PM

I agree with Marcus about getting test lvls.

Secondly, if your test lvls are low enough, you might be able to get a script from a doctor for testosterone injections.

Lastly, MR10x is spot on. With your routine, you will not add near as much size/strength and you will look less cut because of water retention. If you are going to move forward with this.. I would look at some mass building workouts and diets. If you really want to take full advantage of your cycle, you're going to be looking at increasing your calories significantly(3k cals +++ at 175lb). Check out some anabolic workouts or ask some of the vets around here for some anabolic workouts. Good luck with everything, pm me if you have any more questions

**DeniZen** · 11-16-2011, 03:32 PM

Take it from an old guy who did his first cycle at 54. Drop the anavar . It made me feel like shit and BP went thru the roof! Test is enough!

**BigBadBen** · 11-16-2011, 03:34 PM

Yes, I want to gain muscle mass but be in proportion. I have completed P90X three times, yes I will hear folks laugh, but it is fricking hard if you do it properly.

I am now doing bench press, incline press, squats ,leg presses, lat pulldowns and basic arm exercises with free weights in sets, 8-10 reps and strip sets. I am loving it actually as I never had much upper body strength before. I have much more strength now!

I am already seeing changes in my body and want to develop that more and faster.

Thanks for the support...really!!!!

Ben

**Kansas City Boy** · 11-16-2011, 03:34 PM

Ah yes,, I forgot to mention the most important thing I wanted to say

Thanks DeniZen

For first time anabolics,, You're taking too many variables.. Straight test will knock you off your feet.. Try a cycle of just test and see where you end up!! You will be surprised.. Secondly, Might wanna try 400mg/week of test c if you're going to run just test... This is my opinion... Listen to Marcus the HoF before anyone else,,, He's been around lol

**BigBadBen** · 11-16-2011, 03:36 PM

Blood work being done tomorrow AM after fasting...will have results hopefully by Friday and will post accordingly.

Thanks for all the input chaps!

I must say this site has been the most welcoming!!

Cheers,

Ben

**Kansas City Boy** · 11-16-2011, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by BigBadBen

Yes, I want to gain muscle mass but be in proportion. I have completed P90X three times, yes I will hear folks laugh, but it is fricking hard if you do it properly.

I am now doing bench press, incline press, squats ,leg presses, lat pulldowns and basic arm exercises with free weights in sets, 8-10 reps and strip sets. I am loving it actually as I never had much upper body strength before. I have much more strength now!

I am already seeing changes in my body and want to develop that more and faster.

Thanks for the support...really!!!!

Ben

P90X is completely different from anabolic lifting. P90X, though I have never done it, is basically plyometrics and cross-training. Much different goals than anabolic lifting. With anabolic lifting you're tricking your body into growing due to muscle overload.... With Plyometrics/Xtraining it's more of confusing your body to lean up and lose fat due to increased activity. Very different! If you want to put on size and strength your best bet is a cycle of test, followed by a cutting cycle or just diet/cardio. If you just wanna be lean, and put on a little size and strength, I guess you could stick with P90X but you're setting the ceiling very low. To achieve really great strength and size you must force your body into growing due to muscle overload.

**BigBadBen** · 11-16-2011, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Kansas City Boy

P90X is completely different from anabolic lifting. P90X, though I have never done it, is basically plyometrics and cross-training. Much different goals than anabolic lifting. With anabolic lifting you're tricking your body into growing due to muscle overload.... With Plyometrics/Xtraining it's more of confusing your body to lean up and lose fat due to increased activity. Very different! If you want to put on size and strength your best bet is a cycle of test, followed by a cutting cycle or just diet/cardio. If you just wanna be lean, and put on a little size and strength, I guess you could stick with P90X but you're setting the ceiling very low. To achieve really great strength and size you must force your body into growing due to muscle overload.

KCB,

This is what I want to move into. P90X improved my whole body which has now allowed me to lift heavier weights. I want to lift heavier weights and grow my body, this is the path I am on and the challenge I have set myself. If I weigh 190-200lbs at the end of this and am very lean I will be a very happy camper.

I am taking this slow and steady to ensure the desired results without wrecking my body and setting myself back due to injury. I will train hard and push the limits, I have always done that with anything I put my mind to!

Ben

**MR10X** · 11-16-2011, 05:16 PM

you need to keep the aerobic stuff to a minimum to maxamize your gains,train intensily and get plenty of rest for your muscles to recouperate.
You need to eat to gain size,trying to stay lean and make large gains in size is more difficult to do when your not feeding your body correctly.Not saying to put on a lot of fat but you need to eat right.

**BigBadBen** · 11-16-2011, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by MR10X

you need to keep the aerobic stuff to a minimum to maxamize your gains,train intensily and get plenty of rest for your muscles to recouperate.
You need to eat to gain size,trying to stay lean and make large gains in size is more difficult to do when your not feeding your body correctly.Not saying to put on a lot of fat but you need to eat right.

I hear ya MR10X....I sorta over did it the last few days so I am resting, my muscles seem to be sore all the time these days.... I am taking in a lot more protein than I used to, that is a departure for me. I have to learn how to eat differently now than before.

Thanks for the support.

Cheers,

Ben

**BigBadBen** · 11-21-2011, 03:02 PM

An update on my blood work.

Everything is very good except my HDL is very low at .38 mmol/L. When I had my blood tested in March it was .81 mmol/L. Risk ratio now is 11.2, reference is 5.2

The only thing that changed since then was the addition of GH starting late July plus I added some var a month ago. Is it the GH or var causing this low level?

Still waiting for my test results, has to go to another lab!

**BigBadBen** · 11-21-2011, 03:30 PM

OK, I found the answer...VAR is the culprit. It destroys your HDL values. LDL and Triglycerides were spot on btw!!

**cb714** · 11-21-2011, 04:10 PM

I hear proviron is not so good for older guys because of it's affinity for receptors in the prostate. Maybe someone with some more knowledge on this can chime in and advise whether it should be of concern or not.

**BigBadBen** · 11-22-2011, 12:46 PM

Test results:

Test 4.5 nmol/L Ref is 10.0 - 30.0
Test Free 169 pmol/L Ref 90-700
Test Bio 4.0 nmol/L Ref 2-16
Sex Hormone Binding Glob 6 nmol/L Ref 10-70

**DeniZen** · 11-22-2011, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by BigBadBen

OK, I found the answer...VAR is the culprit. It destroys your HDL values. LDL and Triglycerides were spot on btw!!

Forget the var its a waste of good money for a first cycle. And you won't like how you feel and the rise in BP. Maybe young guys can tolerate it no problem but not this old dude. Test by itself feels great and produces great results.... no sense adding a very expensive oral makes you feel shitty and doesn't contribute significantly. A lot of vets call it gaynavar for a reason lol. Plus if you have side effects and are running all kinds of stuff you won't know what is causing the problems. I did Test E only and PCT....nothing else, and had ancillaries available for possible side effects.

**russn** · 11-22-2011, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by BigBadBen

Test results:

Test 4.5 nmol/L Ref is 10.0 - 30.0
Test Free 169 pmol/L Ref 90-700
Test Bio 4.0 nmol/L Ref 2-16
Sex Hormone Binding Glob 6 nmol/L Ref 10-70

Take it from a fellow 50 year old those test numbers are low. When I am on cycle my free test is over 1500.

Test E, train hard, rest, eat well and eat a lot.

**BigBadBen** · 11-22-2011, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by russn

Take it from a fellow 50 year old those test numbers are low. When I am on cycle my free test is over 1500.

Test E, train hard, rest, eat well and eat a lot.

How much are you on per week?

My Dr just gave me a scrip for Delatestryl 200mg/ml. 1 ml every two weeks.

**russn** · 11-22-2011, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by BigBadBen

Stats:
50 years old
175 lbs
5'9"

I crosstrain, so free weights, T-mill, multigym, Plyo, bands and mix it up all the time so as not to plateau. WO at least 5 days a week.

I have been working out for the past 10 years and am in very good shape for my age, in fact the best I have ever been in my life!

Goals: Add some size, strength and definition.

I want to start out slow to see how my body reacts to all this!

10 week cycle

Per Week
Test Cyp 1 ml 300mg/ml...revised from 250mg/ml

Per Day
Var 50 mg
GH 1.5 iu on wake, 1.5 pre or post, I mix it up. Total 3 iu a day. Not pharma, so please don't flame me
Per day
During cycle
Nolvadex 40 mg
Proviron 25 mg
Per day
PCT
Clomid 40 mg

Lastly, I have a selection of the following that can be added if you see fit but most likely not needed.

Clen
T3
ECA stack

Thanks all for your help.

Ben

Just to follow up. I am your age and when i started my first cycle just under 2 years ago i weighed 175 as well. I am now 205. I started with GH for a few months before my first cycle of 500mg pw of Test E. My belief is that GH is great to run before using any aas, but I don't feel you need it during. I would just start out wiith 500mg Test E pw only. Drop anything else. Just keep what you have on hand in case of any sides.
Good luck bro.
Also change your workouts. Those previous workouts make it hard to build muscle size.

**russn** · 11-22-2011, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by BigBadBen

How much are you on per week?

My Dr just gave me a scrip for Delatestryl 200mg/ml. 1 ml every two weeks.

The most Test i have taken pw is 750mg. My next cycle over the winter I am upping it to a gram pw.

**BigBadBen** · 11-22-2011, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by russn

Just to follow up. I am your age and when i started my first cycle just under 2 years ago i weighed 175 as well. I am now 205. I started with GH for a few months before my first cycle of 500mg pw of Test E. My belief is that GH is great to run before using any aas, but I don't feel you need it during. I would just start out wiith 500mg Test E pw only. Drop anything else. Just keep what you have on hand in case of any sides.
Good luck bro.
Also change your workouts. Those previous workouts make it hard to build muscle size.

I have changed my routine already. I just listed the above as a reference thats all.

Cheers