Clomiphene instead of Cypionate

[Raylin23]

Dr says to take clomiphene citrate 25mg/day for fertility and increased testosterone... He says stop taking cypionate. I've been taking 100mg/week of Cypionate and I am happy with muscle, confidence and libido. I am not happy with testicle shrinkage and zero sperm count. He says switching to Clomiphene Citrate will do what I need.

I am worried that on 25mg/day Clomiphene I will not see the same results as Cypionate in my muscles and libido.

Will I crash immediately by switching? Will I lose the benefits I get from Cypionate?

[gixxerboy1]

your not going to feel the same as when on the cyp. What age are you and how long where you on the trt

[sir.solidarity]

I agree with Gix.
You will not feel the same.

[matt77]

If your looking to increase fertility you need to get your Doctor to put you on some HCG with your test therapy. This will make you fertile again and your nuts will fill back up! Looking in the TRT section will propbably give some more info.

[Raylin23]

thanks for responses so far. I'm 36. I've been on TRT for 3 months. It's been very beneficial. I'm not trying to have kids right now, but being able to in the future would be the doctor's reason to stop Cyp now...

[auslifta]

Clomid will not compare to cyp. It will not help in some cases of men that need TRT as well. Adding HCG with your current TRT protocol will help with testicular atrophy and fertility. Clomid has been shown to help men with TRT issues, but only a percentage. This should of been tried before going on the cyp IMO.

[MR10X]

thanks for responses so far. I'm 36. I've been on TRT for 3 months. It's been very beneficial. I'm not trying to have kids right now, but being able to in the future would be the doctor's reason to stop Cyp now...

Your doctor is correct,if you want to be able to have kids later you definately dont want to shut your system down.Why are you on TRT,low test? Did you blood test show low test and is the reason for the TRT.I am using Nolvadex right now to raise my test levels and like the results,its not as good as being on a cycle but thats to be expected. If the doc does bloodwork while your on the Clomid he can tell what your test levels are and your LH and FSH levels will also be raised which wont happen with just test and HCG.
heres a study done with clomid,at a higher dose.Although a more severe case but still he improved.

Impotence Related to
Anabolic Steroid Use in a
Body Builder
Response to Clomiphene Citrate
CAROL BICKELMAN
LAURA FERRIES, MD
R. PHILIP EATON, MD
Albuquerque, New Mexico
THE RECREATIONAL USE of anabolic steroids has become
commonplace among athletes.'2 Exercise enthusiasts
frequently subscribe to information from such sources as
the "Underground Steroid Handbook"3 and self-design
illicit drug therapy, including the use of human chorionic
gonadotropin (hCG), clomiphene citrate (Clomid),
and tamoxifen citrate, to counter the side effects of
gynecomastia and reduced testicular volume. Despite
this apparent drug sophistication, not only can these persons
have a psychological dependence on the anabolic
steroids,4'5 but hypogonadotropic hypogonadism that
lasts for monthsto years may also develop.
The case presented here illustrates the degree of drug
knowledge among body builders, the psychosocial
dependence on these drugs, and the potential of
clomiphene9 in treating the disorder of pituitary-gonadal
failure in such persons.
Report of a Case
The patient, a 29-year-old man, had impotence and
decreased libido for a year. He is a college student and a
competitive body builder who had used anabolic steroids
for eight months (January to August 1992), alternating
16-week cycles of testosterone cypionate (Depo-
Testosterone), 1,500 to 1,800 mg per week, and
oxymetholone (Anadrol), 560 mg per week. After stopping
the use of these drugs in August 1992, he was
impotent with no spontaneous erections and had diminished
libido. He completed a self-selected four-week
trial of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) in
September 1992 without any change in libido and no
improvement in potency. The dose of hCG is unknown,
and the patient denied any previous use of the drug. He
was advised by colleagues to take a course offunction. He elected to wait for nine months, without
success.
He sought endocrine consultation in July 1993,
almost a full year after his last steroid dose, because of
continued impotence and reduced libido. On examination
he was robust, weighing 76 kg (168 lb), height 178
cm (5 ft 10 in), appearing healthy, and was heavily muscled.
He had a reduced testicular volume of 10 ml on
both sides and 2 cm of gynecomastia on both sides. A
urine screening test for exogenous anabolic steroids was
negative for 19 steroids or metabolites, including danazol,
fluoxymesterone, methyltestosterone, 19-nortestosterone,
oxymetholone, and stanozolol, as well as the
diuretic probenecid. An adrenocorticotropic hormonestimulation
test showed a normal rise in the cortisol level
from 360 to 830 nmol per liter (13 to 30 ,ug per dl).
Magnetic resonance imaging with gadolinium enhan***ent
revealed a normal pituitary gland. Serum
gonadotropin and free testosterone levels were abnormal,
however, as shown in Figure 1, with a follicle-stimulating
hormone (FSH) level of 0.6 mIU per ml (1.6 to
17.8 mIU per ml), a luteinizing hormone (LH) level of
1.9 mIU per ml (1.4 to 11.1 mIU per ml), and a free
testosterone level of 7.1 pg per ml (19.0 to 41.0 pg per
ml).

clomiphene or await the spontaneous return of sexual
(Bickelman C, Ferries L, Eaton RP: Impotence related to anabolic
steroid use in a body builder-Response to clomiphene citrate. West J
Med 1995; 162:158-160)
From the Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Medicine,
University of New Mexico School of Medicine, Albuquerque. At the time
this article was written, Ms Bickelman was a second-year medical student.
This research was supported by the General Clinical Research Center and National
Institutes of Health National Center for Research Resources grant 5 MOI
RR00997.
Reprint requests to R. Philip Eaton, MD, Div of Endocrinology andTreatment was initiated with clomiphene, 50 mg
orally per day, and after a month of therapy he had
noticed no improvement in potency or libido, although
he had begun having morning erections. Serum hormone
tests showed moderate improvement in FSH, LH, and
free testosterone levels, although not in the normal range
(Figure 1). A month after taking a double dose of
clomiphene (100 mg per day), the patient reported an
increase in libido and potency, and he was able to have
sexual intercourse daily. His gonadal volume was
unchanged, although serum FSH, LH, and free testosterone
levels had reached normal for his age (Figure 1).
After clomiphene therapy was discontinued three weeks
later, the serum FSH and LH levels fell to normal, and
the total serum testosterone remained at a normal level
of 16.3 nmol per liter (4.7 ng per ml) (range, 12.5 to 34.5
nmol per liter [3.6 to 9.9 ng per ml]). This response suggested
a restoration of normal hypothalamic-pituitarygonadal
function, and it was proposed to reevaluate this
function with a longer follow-up to determine whether
the correction was sustained.
Follow-up of the patient six months later revealed
that he had returned to the illicit use of Depo-
Testosterone at 400 mg per week to achieve a level of
sexual performance three times that achieved with
clomiphene alone. He noted that his testes were smaller,
and he was considering trying another course of hCG in
combination with tamoxifen to prevent worsening
gynecomastia.
Discussion
The illicit use of anabolic steroids is becoming more
widespread, especially among those involved in competitive
athletics or body building and even among
teenagers."' Even when gonadal dysfunction occurs, persons
often continue using the anabolic steroids.

[Raylin23]

How about Cypionate and Clomid together, Cyp weekly and Clomid daily? Any problem with doing that as my regular TRT?