S4 (33mg/day) x 12 weeks. Var (35mg/day) x 6 weeks. MK (15mg/day) x 3 weeks. PCT?

[Furious.George]

Maybe I don't need it.

Maybe I can just use the rest of my MK for a few weeks instead.

I hear these don't suppress much (or at all in the case of MK), so maybe I can just ride it out?

Otherwise, I have some tamoxifen and letro on hand.

Was thinking of 5mg and 1.25mg per day for a month or so, respectively.

I can get HCG, but, again, I don't think I need it.

[dec11]

by s4 do you mean sarms? and whats mk? coding not necessary.

35mgs var = nothing.


age and stats?

[Knockout_Power]

I see a huge waste of time and money. You are not going to see much from this proposed "cycle" if you can call it that

[dec11]

I see a huge waste of time and money. You are not going to see much from this proposed "cycle" if you can call it that

x2, i dont know what its supposed to be!

[Knockout_Power]

Im seeing more and more "cycles" like this popping up. People who dont want to pin, so they rely on a lot of orals without understanding what they are doing completely. Orals are a really easy sale and make the most amount of money for a dealer so they are pushing like crazy in almost every high school.. scary shit

[MeatHead85]

Im seeing more and more "cycles" like this popping up. People who dont want to pin, so they rely on a lot of orals without understanding what they are doing completely. Orals are a really easy sale and make the most amount of money for a dealer so they are pushing like crazy in almost every high school.. scary shit

If you can't pin then you shouldn't even consider AAS...

[Furious.George]

by s4 do you mean sarms? and whats mk? coding not necessary.
35mgs var = nothing.
age and stats?

Age 30, 190lbs, 15% BF and dropping.

MK is MK2866, and yes S4 as in the SARM.

x2, i dont know what its supposed to be!

If you can't pin then you shouldn't even consider AAS...

I see a huge waste of time and money. You are not going to see much from this proposed "cycle" if you can call it that

Im seeing more and more "cycles" like this popping up. People who dont want to pin, so they rely on a lot of orals without understanding what they are doing completely. Orals are a really easy sale and make the most amount of money for a dealer so they are pushing like crazy in almost every high school.. scary shit

I use GH @ 5IU/day. Does that count as pinning, or does it need to be IM?

Anyway, I'm really happy with my results, and my cycle was anabolic enough to prevent me from losing muscle @ 150mcg/day of T3. Even in the winter with all this heavy clothes I get comments, even a few people asking if I'm "on roids".

Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have done a thing different (except maybe make the S4 cycle shorter, and use more Var).

It sounds like you guys think my cycle was mild enough that there is no need for PCT, right?

I don't believe anyone answered that question directly.

[dec11]

Age 30, 190lbs, 15% BF and dropping.

MK is MK2866, and yes S4 as in the SARM.









I use GH @ 5IU/day. Does that count as pinning, or does it need to be IM?

Anyway, I'm really happy with my results, and my cycle was anabolic enough to prevent me from losing muscle @ 150mcg/day of T3. Even in the winter with all this heavy clothes I get comments, even a few people asking if I'm "on roids".

Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have done a thing different (except maybe make the S4 cycle shorter, and use more Var).

It sounds like you guys think my cycle was mild enough that there is no need for PCT, right?

I don't believe anyone answered that question directly.

man you're only 190lbs lol, where do you live, Lilliput?

190lbs and 15% is nothing to write home about if you want it honestly. if you're so happy with this, what do you need us for?

you've been told that anavar is a waste at that paltry dosage and the only thing that would require a pct. from what ive heard the whole S4 thing is BS.

[Furious.George]

man you're only 190lbs lol, where do you live, Lilliput?

190lbs and 15% is nothing to write home about if you want it honestly. if you're so happy with this, what do you need us for?

Lol @ Lilliput. I wasn't bragging. You asked so I answered. Anyway, my goal was to increase strength and decrease body fat, and I've achieved both so far. When I started I was a lot tubbier, a lot weaker, and injured to boot.

What I need you guys for is to tell me if this cycle requires PCT, and it sounds like you say it doesn't.

you've been told that anavar is a waste at that paltry dosage and the only thing that would require a pct. from what ive heard the whole S4 thing is BS.

Like I said, I'd be happy to try again with more var. I read in a few places that the minimum dose was 50mg/day, but I figured since I was also stacking the SARMs that I could get away with a little less.

However, I have to say I was pretty impressed with S4. The effects did quickly drop off after 6 weeks (around when night-vision improved). I've never used any other gear, so I have no frame of reference to compare it, but I'd use it again. If you're going to tell me that IM T works faster and better I would believe it, but my goal was never to get as big as I could as fast as I could.

If given the choice between gear and keeping my hair, I'd chose the latter and go all natty in a sec. That's why I went with such a non-androgenic stack. I suspect that in this regard my values do not align with those of the rest of the forum, which may be why you're all looking at me like I have two heads and three faces. In fact, my source "threw in" 100 x 10mg of D-bol, and I didn't use it because I didn't feel I needed it and I realize it's more androgenic than the others, especially when used concurrently with 5ar inhibitors. In other words, I chose protecting my follicles over a few lbs of LBM. That must really blow your mind.

Anyway, thanks again for the constructive criticism again, and I even think I detected an implied answer to my question there. You think that var would be the only thing that suppresses, and that I didn't use enough to necessitate PCT.

There is one important thing I forgot to mention: speaking of hair I've been using 5ar inhibitors for many years. I suspect that, along with my high BF percentage would make me more susceptible to estrogenic sides after my cycle. Does that change anything as far as my need for PCT?

Thanks again, and sorry for leaving that last bit out in my OP.

[dec11]

Lol @ Lilliput. I wasn't bragging. You asked so I answered. Anyway, my goal was to increase strength and decrease body fat, and I've achieved both so far. When I started I was a lot tubbier, a lot weaker, and injured to boot.

What I need you guys for is to tell me if this cycle requires PCT, and it sounds like you say it doesn't.



Like I said, I'd be happy to try again with more var. I read in a few places that the minimum dose was 50mg/day, but I figured since I was also stacking the SARMs that I could get away with a little less.

However, I have to say I was pretty impressed with S4. The effects did quickly drop off after 6 weeks (around when night-vision improved). I've never used any other gear, so I have no frame of reference to compare it, but I'd use it again. If you're going to tell me that IM T works faster and better I would believe it, but my goal was never to get as big as I could as fast as I could.

If given the choice between gear and keeping my hair, I'd chose the latter and go all natty in a sec. That's why I went with such a non-androgenic stack. I suspect that in this regard my values do not align with those of the rest of the forum, which may be why you're all looking at me like I have two heads and three faces. In fact, my source "threw in" 100 x 10mg of D-bol, and I didn't use it because I didn't feel I needed it and I realize it's more androgenic than the others, especially when used concurrently with 5ar inhibitors. In other words, I chose protecting my follicles over a few lbs of LBM. That must really blow your mind.

Anyway, thanks again for the constructive criticism again, and I even think I detected an implied answer to my question there. You think that var would be the only thing that suppresses, and that I didn't use enough to necessitate PCT.

There is one important thing I forgot to mention: speaking of hair I've been using 5ar inhibitors for many years. I suspect that, along with my high BF percentage would make me more susceptible to estrogenic sides after my cycle. Does that change anything as far as my need for PCT

Thanks again, and sorry for leaving that last bit out in my OP.

man what are you on about?! and where did i say PCT wasnt required, i did say that anavar dose is a waste of time.

you obviously have no clue about AAS or what you are doing and by the sounds of it you wont want to listen either and THATS why ppl look at you as if you've two heads. so im out........

[Furious.George]

man what are you on about?! and where did i say PCT wasnt required, i did say that anavar dose is a waste of time.
you obviously have no clue about AAS or what you are doing and by the sounds of it you wont want to listen either and THATS why ppl look at you as if you've two heads. so im out........

Sigh...

I appreciate all the constructive crtiticim guys, but can someone just give an opinion on whether I need to use this PCT or not?

I get it, waste of money, not a real cycle, and all that. There's nothing I can do about it now. On Monday the cycle is over, and I need to decide whether to start PCT.

I promise I'll use more var next time, cross my heart and hope to die.

[dec11]

oh jesus, so you wait till the end of a cycle to determine whether you need PCT?!

40mgs per day tamox for the next 4wks.

please read up before you attempt to use again.....

[DanB]

a quick 2 min search brings up about 50 relevant threads on the subject mate

[gearbox]

everyone is different...here is a cody past from the steroid forum and you can decide what you want to do. "" Anavar will not totally shut down your HPTA, especially at lower doses (unlike testosterone , which will eventually do this even at a 100mg dose, or deca which will do it with a single 100mg dose). This could be due, at least partly, to the fact that Anavar doesn’t aromatize (convert to estrogen).
Serum testosterone , SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin), and LH (Leutinizing Hormone ( will be slightly suppressed with low doses of Anavar , but less than with other compounds. FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone ) , IGF1 (Insulin Like Growth Factor 1) and GH (Growth Hormone ) will not be suppressed with a low dose of Anavar""

I would get blood work done a week after your done and see what it says, then you will have your answer on paper..

[Furious.George]

Thanks gearbox. You're the best. Unless you reply that there's something wrong with this I'll probably keep using the MK for two weeks just to be safe, as I've read it doesn't suppress at all, and then I'll get my bloodwork a week after that as you suggested.

Also, I could get DHT cream for the nips as gyno prophylaxis. Gyno is a concern for me since I've been on 5ar inhibitors for so long.

[dec11]

everyone is different...here is a cody past from the steroid forum and you can decide what you want to do. "" Anavar will not totally shut down your HPTA, especially at lower doses (unlike testosterone , which will eventually do this even at a 100mg dose, or deca which will do it with a single 100mg dose). This could be due, at least partly, to the fact that Anavar doesn’t aromatize (convert to estrogen).
Serum testosterone , SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin), and LH (Leutinizing Hormone ( will be slightly suppressed with low doses of Anavar , but less than with other compounds. FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone ) , IGF1 (Insulin Like Growth Factor 1) and GH (Growth Hormone ) will not be suppressed with a low dose of Anavar""

I would get blood work done a week after your done and see what it says, then you will have your answer on paper..

thats outdated info, if you use any type of steroid you should PCT

[tasKer]

Anavar does not contain a C-17 alpha alkylated ion which makes it extremely safe and non-toxic to the liver. It also does not easily convert to estrogen like other steroids
As for toxicity of 17aa the only report i have to hand at the moment but will dig out more is:


From research conducted by Michael Mooney that this is particularly well noted with HIV patients who have been using Oxandrin, another brand name for oxandrolone Anavar is much less liver toxic than other 17-alpha alkylated steroids, probably because it is primarily metabolized outside of the liver, when metabolized, and much of it is excreted unchanged. At higher doses it can increase liver enzyme values, there seems to be no evidence that any cytotoxicity exists, as is the case with other 17-alpha alkylated steroids.


it can be run 10-12 week totally safe for the liver

[dec11]

Anavar does not contain a C-17 alpha alkylated ion which makes it extremely safe and non-toxic to the liver. It also does not easily convert to estrogen like other steroids
As for toxicity of 17aa the only report i have to hand at the moment but will dig out more is:


From research conducted by Michael Mooney that this is particularly well noted with HIV patients who have been using Oxandrin, another brand name for oxandrolone Anavar is much less liver toxic than other 17-alpha alkylated steroids, probably because it is primarily metabolized outside of the liver, when metabolized, and much of it is excreted unchanged. At higher doses it can increase liver enzyme values, there seems to be no evidence that any cytotoxicity exists, as is the case with other 17-alpha alkylated steroids.


it can be run 10-12 week totally safe for the liver

and this relates to PCT how?

[tasKer]

Oxandrin@, manufactured by Savient Pharmaceuticals, Inc., is an FDA approved
anabolic steroid (oxandrolone) used to treat involuntary weight loss caused by acute
or chronic injury, illness or infection. This anabolic steroid has the benefit of being
metabolized by the kidney rather than in the liver, like the other anabolic steroids,

Robert H. Demling, M.D.
Brigham and Women’s Hospital
Professor of Surgery
Harvard Medical School
Boston, MA

[tasKer]

and this relates to PCT how?

var has low impact on HPTA (if short cycle is made, 6-8 week)....i suggest use low dose of clomid after cycle, 15 day at 50mg is fine...

[DanB]

any1 can copy and post something, the trick is mate to make it relevant

[dec11]

oh jesus, is it any wonder ppl get infuriated in this forum?! it should come with a years supply of prozac.....

[DanB]

prozac haha more like zispin

[dec11]

var has low impact on HPTA (if short cycle is made, 6-8 week)....i suggest use low dose of clomid after cycle, 15 day at 50mg is fine...

oh, is that correct? so if the aas used is weaker in regards to some we shouldnt follow a good pct protocol?

and did you even read his posts? he only has tamox!!

but no, posting irrelevant crap on anavar seems to be more important for you

[Swifto]

man what are you on about?! and where did i say PCT wasnt required, i did say that anavar dose is a waste of time.

you obviously have no clue about AAS or what you are doing and by the sounds of it you wont want to listen either and THATS why ppl look at you as if you've two heads. so im out........

You should have left then, rather than let this thread f*ck you off.

oh jesus, so you wait till the end of a cycle to determine whether you need PCT?!

40mgs per day tamox for the next 4wks.

please read up before you attempt to use again.....

40mg/ED is a massive dose for males, not sure if that was a typo.

40mg/ED week 1, 20mg/ED for 4-5 weeks.

var has low impact on HPTA (if short cycle is made, 6-8 week)....i suggest use low dose of clomid after cycle, 15 day at 50mg is fine...

Var ic actually fairly inhibitive in some, aromotasation or not.

[Furious.George]

oh jesus, so you wait till the end of a cycle to determine whether you need PCT?!

I assumed from the start I would, but since my testicles didn't shrink I started to think that maybe I didn't. I already have a SERM and an AI on hand

40mgs per day tamox for the next 4wks.

Thanks! That's a lot more than I was expecting to hear from what I'd read.

please read up before you attempt to use again.....

I read like it was a part time job. It's not like info in this regard is totally consistent. Take this thread: had it fallen off after the first few posts a reasonable reader would determine that I wouldn't need PCT, since like you said 35mg var = nothing, var is the only thing that suppresses in my "non-cycle", and so why would I need to take PCT for "nothing"?

a quick 2 min search brings up about 50 relevant threads on the subject mate

I searched longer than that, and some threads were relevant, but none close enough to my situation for me to feel comfortable.

Thanks for your time.

var has low impact on HPTA (if short cycle is made, 6-8 week)....i suggest use low dose of clomid after cycle, 15 day at 50mg is fine...

Thanks, but all I have is Tamoxifen and Letrozole. Theoretically, I could get clomid for week 2 of PCT.

oh jesus, is it any wonder ppl get infuriated in this forum?! it should come with a years supply of prozac.....

Maybe it's a side-effect of all that extra T

Just kidding.

OK, I guess I'll just sit on the AI, and possibly use the SERM. Still not convinced what to do. Seems like, as per usual, opinion are varied.

[Swifto]

oh, is that correct? so if the aas used is weaker in regards to some we shouldnt follow a good pct protocol?

and did you even read his posts? he only has tamox!!

but no, posting irrelevant crap on anavar seems to be more important for you

Dec...

[dec11]

You should have left then, rather than let this thread f*ck you off.



40mg/ED is a massive dose for males, not sure if that was a typo.

40mg/ED week 1, 20mg/ED for 4-5 weeks.



Var ic actually fairly inhibitive in some, aromotasation or not.

was, i meant 40mgs for the 1st week and 20mgs thereafter

[Furious.George]

You should have left then, rather than let this thread f*ck you off.
40mg/ED week 1, 20mg/ED for 4-5 weeks.

Thanks, that's another vote for PCT.

[dec11]

I assumed from the start I would, but since my testicles didn't shrink I started to think that maybe I didn't. I already have a SERM and an AI on hand



Thanks! That's a lot more than I was expecting to hear from what I'd read.



I read like it was a part time job. It's not like info in this regard is totally consistent. Take this thread: had it fallen off after the first few posts a reasonable reader would determine that I wouldn't need PCT, since like you said 35mg var = nothing, var is the only thing that suppresses in my "non-cycle", and so why would I need to take PCT for "nothing"?



I searched longer than that, and some threads were relevant, but none close enough to my situation for me to feel comfortable.

Thanks for your time.



Thanks, but all I have is Tamoxifen and Letrozole. Theoretically, I could get clomid for week 2 of PCT.



Maybe it's a side-effect of all that extra T

Just kidding.

OK, I guess I'll just sit on the AI, and possibly use the SERM. Still not convinced what to do. Seems like, as per usual, opinion are varied.

'nothing' as in not a big enough dose for optimal results, doesnt mean PCT isnt required. also, your OP led me to be inclined that this was a cycle plan, not a conclusion of one

[dec11]

Dec...

what........

[Furious.George]

'nothing' as in not a big enough dose for optimal results, doesnt mean PCT isnt required. also, your OP led me to be inclined that this was a cycle plan, not a conclusion of one

OK, I get you know.

I'll try to be more clear in the future.

[dec11]

OK, I get you know.

I'll try to be more clear in the future.

it helps

[Furious.George]

OK, I've taken all your suggestions into consideration, and here's what I'm leaning toward right now.

Tamoxifen
40mg/ED week 1, 20mg/ED for 3 weeks.

Letrozole
0.5mg/ED for 3 weeks

Ostasarm
12.5mg for 3 weeks

Nothing
0mg for final two weeks of 6 week PCT

Restart Cycle - 6 weeks
.33mg/ED S4 gradually increasing to up to 100mg
12.5mg/ED Ostasarm gradually increasing to 25mg
60mg/ED Var

Repeat PCT

Repeat Cycle

At this point I will have finished my 36 week HGH cycle (which I kinda regret starting but may as well see it through now)

Last PCT

At this point I assume I will have met all my goals in terms of fat reduction and muscle gain, and I will stick a fork in the AAS thing for a while.

I realize no one recommended Letro, but since I'm using dutasteride I'm somewhat worried about gyno. Like I said, my BF% is high, I have some fat accumulation in my breast area (pseudo-gyno, no pain, no hard lump), and I'm worried that this is a canary in my coal mine.

I also realize that it was recommended I use tamoxifen for 5 weeks, but since I wanna go on 6 week/6 week cycle/pct from now on I'd like 2 weeks of natty to get lab work before restarting my cycle. Bad idea?

I look forward to your continued flames... I mean: advice.

[dec11]

OK, I've taken all your suggestions into consideration, and here's what I'm leaning toward right now.

Tamoxifen
40mg/ED week 1, 20mg/ED for 3 weeks.

Letrozole
0.5mg/ED for 3 weeks

Ostasarm
12.5mg for 3 weeks

Nothing
0mg for final two weeks of 6 week PCT

Restart Cycle - 6 weeks
.33mg/ED S4 gradually increasing to up to 100mg
12.5mg/ED Ostasarm gradually increasing to 25mg
60mg/ED Var

Repeat PCT

Repeat Cycle

At this point I will have finished my 36 week HGH cycle (which I kinda regret starting but may as well see it through now)

Last PCT

At this point I assume I will have met all my goals in terms of fat reduction and muscle gain, and I will stick a fork in the AAS thing for a while.

I realize no one recommended Letro, but since I'm using dutasteride I'm somewhat worried about gyno. Like I said, my BF% is high, I have some fat accumulation in my breast area (pseudo-gyno, no pain, no hard lump), and I'm worried that this is a canary in my coal mine.

I also realize that it was recommended I use tamoxifen for 5 weeks, but since I wanna go on 6 week/6 week cycle/pct from now on I'd like 2 weeks of natty to get lab work before restarting my cycle. Bad idea?

I look forward to your continued flames... I mean: advice.

time on + pct time = time off or if bloodwork says otherwise. you cannot just keep jumping on and off AAS. you dont need letro either, not even for the harshest of cycles. for that cyle of var i'd doubt you'd need any AI at all

[Furious.George]

time on + pct time = time off or if bloodwork says otherwise.

Just making sure I got you: 6 week cycle + 6 week PCT = 12 weeks nothing, and repeat is how I should do it.

My only concern is that I've been told for best results GH should be used with some AAS, and in this scenario I'd be AAS free for 18 of the final 24 weeks of my uber-expensive GH cycle.

Actually, since I used S4 alone for 6 weeks you could say that 12 weeks of cycle + 6 Weeks of PCT = 18 weeks of nothing, meaning that I would not be using any AAS until after my GH cycle is complete!

I'm already worried that I'm flushing money down the drain with HGH to begin with.

you cannot just keep jumping on and off AAS. you dont need letro either, not even for the harshest of cycles. for that cyle of var i'd doubt you'd need any AI at all

I see where you're coming from, but keep in mind that I'm using a potent 5ar inhibitor (dutasteride) so I have essentially 0 DHT. Works great for keeping my hair for 11 years (ever met a 19 year old with aggressive hair loss that isn't bald by 30?), but I'm concerned that I'm gonna get gyno for my lack of DHT.

Like I said, no hard lump, no pain, but I do accumulate some of my 15% BF there, and I do feel something under my nip, though it's soft and not tender at all.

Still think no letro is needed?

I appreciate the time you've donated to this thread.

[dec11]

Just making sure I got you: 6 week cycle + 6 week PCT = 12 weeks nothing, and repeat is how I should do it.

My only concern is that I've been told for best results GH should be used with some AAS, and in this scenario I'd be AAS free for 18 of the final 24 weeks of my uber-expensive GH cycle.

Actually, since I used S4 alone for 6 weeks you could say that 12 weeks of cycle + 6 Weeks of PCT = 18 weeks of nothing, meaning that I would not be using any AAS until after my GH cycle is complete!

I'm already worried that I'm flushing money down the drain with HGH to begin with.



I see where you're coming from, but keep in mind that I'm using a potent 5ar inhibitor (dutasteride) so I have essentially 0 DHT. Works great for keeping my hair for 11 years (ever met a 19 year old with aggressive hair loss that isn't bald by 30?), but I'm concerned that I'm gonna get gyno for my lack of DHT.

Like I said, no hard lump, no pain, but I do accumulate some of my 15% BF there, and I do feel something under my nip, though it's soft and not tender at all.

Still think no letro is needed?

I appreciate the time you've donated to this thread.

man your a hard nut to crack. just cos you're using hgh doesnt mean you need to stay on AAS, the hgh will do what the hgh does. letro is not needed and will eat away at muscle. you dont need a 6wk pct from anavar ,4 is enough so tht would = 10wks off. as for tht S4 etc, id spend the money on more hgh than tht crap tbh.

is the HGH good pharma brand or chinese crap?

[Furious.George]

man your a hard nut to crack.

Please be patient. There's a lot of conflicting info out there. You know I appreciate you and your (terse) advice.

just cos you're using hgh doesnt mean you need to stay on AAS, the hgh will do what the hgh does.

The only problem I see with that statement is in that link in my last post. What if HGH does nothing without AAS? I guess that's a risk I'll have to take at this point.

letro is not needed and will eat away at muscle.

Sounds like you're not worried about me getting gyno. OK, I'm convinced. (Until someone drops in with more conflicting info.)

you dont need a 6wk pct from anavar ,4 is enough so tht would = 10wks off. as for tht S4 etc, id spend the money on more hgh than tht crap tbh.

Like I said: I have no frame of reference having never used anything other than sarms and a low dose of var, but from my experience I think you're being a bit harsh on the S4.

My first week on S4 was not my first week at the gym, and the results, and especially how quickly I saw results, were nothing short of amazing for me.

I can unequivocally say it was not a placebo effect.

If something else is stronger, which I'm sure something else is, then I don't need stronger.

The effect did wear out quickly, and increasing my dose didn't seem to help.

is the HGH good pharma brand or chinese crap?

Crap (from a reputable source).

I got expected sides once I got above 3.5IU/day, so I assume it's real.

[dec11]

Please be patient. There's a lot of conflicting info out there. You know I appreciate you and your (terse) advice.its not terse, you just dont seem to listen



The only problem I see with that statement is in that link in my last post. What if HGH does nothing without AAS? I guess that's a risk I'll have to take at this point. my gf's brother has been on hgh for over a year, never touched AAS in his life, fantastic results for what he wants



Sounds like you're not worried about me getting gyno. OK, I'm convinced. (Until someone drops in with more conflicting info.) you are not getting gyno from low dose anavar. ive been caught out and had extremely sore nips and lumps forming for 3wks on tren and test, got an AI and boom they disappeared, ive not got any gyno. i can shoot 300mg tets pw and not get gyno symptoms. now for the shock, im gyno prone!!



Like I said: I have no frame of reference having never used anything other than sarms and a low dose of var, but from my experience I think you're being a bit harsh on the S4. i would try anything once and ive never ever had a desire to try tht, ive heard NONE of the top guys on here even ever mention it, hence ive never bothered

My first week on S4 was not my first week at the gym, and the results, and especially how quickly I saw results, were nothing short of amazing for me.

I can unequivocally say it was not a placebo effect. not convinced, a change in diet and the anavar could have had you 'feeling it'

If something else is stronger, which I'm sure something else is, then I don't need stronger.

The effect did wear out quickly, and increasing my dose didn't seem to help.



Crap (from a reputable source). thats a big oxymoron right there lol

I got expected sides once I got above 3.5IU/day, so I assume it's real means nothing, they use mimicking agents in fake hgh.

bolds

[Furious.George]

you just dont seem to listen

Trust me, I'm taking it all in.

my gf's brother has been on hgh for over a year, never touched AAS in his life, fantastic results for what he wants

you are not getting gyno from low dose anavar. ive been caught out and had extremely sore nips and lumps forming for 3wks on tren and test, got an AI and boom they disappeared, ive not got any gyno. i can shoot 300mg tets pw and not get gyno symptoms. now for the shock, im gyno prone!![/quote]

Encouraging

i would try anything once and ive never ever had a desire to try tht, ive heard NONE of the top guys on here even ever mention it, hence ive never bothered

I'm not trying to be a top guy, and I'm sure the top guys prefer the more androgenic stuff I would never use.

not convinced, a change in diet and the anavar could have had you 'feeling it'

I'd changed my diet months prior, and didn't start the var till six weeks later.

The first six weeks was S4 only, though I guess what I find impressive you may find pretty mediocre.

For me at least the 33mg of S4 was much more noticeable than the 35mg of var, though by the time I'd started var maybe my ARs were downregulated or something.

thats a big oxymoron right there lol

means nothing, they use mimicking agents in fake hgh.

Jerks.

A buddy of mine who's way more of a "pro" than I'll ever be recommended this source to me, so I'm gonna use the same one on faith for lack of any better ideas.