Is there a natural limit on size?

[Armykid93]

Ive heard from a few people and even seen on this forum a few times people talking about a natural limit.
What is the natural limit for a guy like me with wider shoulders who 5'8?

[The Bear 79]

When ur diet & training r tuned in, & u reach an unbreakable plateau no matter the "tweaks" or adjustments u mak, THEN, u hav reached ur natural limit. But it takes about a yr or so after u hav reached that plateau, of tweaks, adjustments & tests, 2 come 2 the conclusion that u hav reached ur natty limit. In other words, u don't just say, "I've reached my limit cuz I cant gain any mor", u mak adjustments in ur diet & training over an EXTENDED period of time 2 c if u can further ur gains.

[gearbox]

well said bear! it would take years of dedication to reach this...

[dec11]

Ive heard from a few people and even seen on this forum a few times people talking about a natural limit.
What is the natural limit for a guy like me with wider shoulders who 5'8?

how long is a piece of string?

[gearbox]

how long is a piece of string?

lol...I wanted to throw out a bet that your would say something smart... this is like a few wks ago when a younger dude said how much should a 18 yr old bench press.

[slfmade]

how long is a piece of string?

You mean you don't know Dec11? You just ruined my faith in you to provide me with all life's answers!

[The Bear 79]

how long is a piece of string?

String cheese?............... Tampon string?............. Shoe string?..............Silly string?.............C'mon man..........gimmie sumtin 2 work with..............

[dec11]

You mean you don't know Dec11? You just ruined my faith in you to provide me with all life's answers!

bring me a white picket fence and a shrubbery and all knowledge shall be imparted

[dec11]

String cheese?............... Tampon string?............. Shoe string?..............Silly string?.............C'mon man..........gimmie sumtin 2 work with..............

nope, im gona string you along

[The Bear 79]

bring me a white picket fence and a shrubbery and all knowledge shall be imparted

Rocky Horror Picture Show???

[slfmade]

bring me a white picket fence and a shrubbery and all knowledge shall be imparted

Monty Python????

[guitario]

I don't believe in a natural limit exactly, in the sense that if you can't gain any more weight whilst eating 4500 calories, then upping to 4800 should add a bit more weight in theory. Although there is obviously a limit to how much food a human being can take in and process per day. So in my opinion the term 'natural limit' should apply to anyone that eats 500 calories over maintenance and struggles to add any lean mass. (everything else being perfect)

[ata1979]

Everyone genetics has a maximum limit or potential that can be reached. After that its AAS if you wanna go further.

[MR10X]

I don't believe in a natural limit exactly, in the sense that if you can't gain any more weight whilst eating 4500 calories, then upping to 4800 should add a bit more weight in theory. Although there is obviously a limit to how much food a human being can take in and process per day. So in my opinion the term 'natural limit' should apply to anyone that eats 500 calories over maintenance and struggles to add any lean mass. (everything else being perfect)

I agree,how do do you know what it is,a crystal ball,a fortune teller?

[cro]

exactly.....

I agree,how do do you know what it is,a crystal ball,a fortune teller?

[guitario]

I don't think natural limit can be a specific number. Lets say you get to 200lbs... how could it not be possible to get to 201lbs? If you arm hits 17.5, how could it not be possible to get to 17.6?

This game is based on the law of diminishing returns. The bigger you get the longer it takes to get bigger, (growth spurts excluded). When effort far exceeds results. That could be defined as 'natural limit'.

[cherrydrpepper]

Tim Tebow knows how long the string is

[dec11]

Rocky Horror Picture Show???

oh bear, come on!! lol

Monty Python????

correct!!

[The Bear 79]

oh bear, come on!! lol

correct!!

Dammit!! Close but no cigar.............

[slfmade]

LMFAO! How is Monty Python even close to Rocky Horror?

[MR10X]

you will probably never reach your natural limit,you will gain a lot at first but you will continue to gain as long as you train and eat correctly.Just not as fast as you would on steroids ...

[The Bear 79]

LMFAO! How is Monty Python even close to Rocky Horror?

Now that u mention it...........................IDK...........I guess cuz they're from the same era? Or maybe I'm just confused? IDK.

[Jean Claude]

By a natural limit, wouldn't running a cycle be pointless in that you will not keep any of your gains over time, since your body will be restoring itself to it's natural limit? I'm dealing with natural limit issues myself. I'd like to know what effect synthetically breaking your natural limit has on muscle mass and size once the cycle is complete. I'm not talking after PCT, I'm talking years down the line. And in addition, I would assume the body is never going to go back to your natural test levels after cycle, no matter how careful you were. I think even if you play it safe and cycle once a year you would still eventually run into low test if you did it for years. I guess that's why guys get on TRT.

[slfmade]

By a natural limit, wouldn't running a cycle be pointless in that you will not keep any of your gains over time, since your body will be restoring itself to it's natural limit? I'm dealing with natural limit issues myself. I'd like to know what effect synthetically breaking your natural limit has on muscle mass and size once the cycle is complete. I'm not talking after PCT, I'm talking years down the line. And in addition, I would assume the body is never going to go back to your natural test levels after cycle, no matter how careful you were. I think even if you play it safe and cycle once a year you would still eventually run into low test if you did it for years. I guess that's why guys get on TRT.

I doubt that. I'd wager that most people are on TRT because they age. With age your natural test WILL go down. If running proper PCT you're test should return to normal. Now lets say you run cycles on and off for 10 years...Sure at age 40 it would appear that after 10 yrs your natural test has gone down as compared to when you were 30, but this is due to aging...not cycling!

[Sgt. Hartman]

I think the terms genetic potential and natural limit are at best overused and probably don't exist in reality.

There is a point where gains become excruciatingly slow but IMO as long as you're eating enough to grow and stimulating your muscles properly in your workouts, there is never a point where you absolutely can't grow anymore. It might only be a pound or two of muscle per year but the idea that you reach a point where you cannot gain anymore muscle or strength even with proper diet and training I don't believe is true. The human body is amazingly adaptive and with the proper nutrition and training, it will adapt and grow even if the gains are not noticeable on a short term basis.

There are people who have been training their entire lives that are in their upper 40's and even 50's who can still make gains. I think the bigger issue is that the majority of people are not going to stay motivated to train and diet correctly year round for a measly couple of pounds of muscle per year. Like was already said above, you reach a point of diminishing returns where your effort far exceeds your results.

I'm not speaking from experience, I was nowhere near my supposed natural limit when I started AAS so this is just my opinion.

[Sgt. Hartman]

By a natural limit, wouldn't running a cycle be pointless in that you will not keep any of your gains over time, since your body will be restoring itself to it's natural limit? I'm dealing with natural limit issues myself. I'd like to know what effect synthetically breaking your natural limit has on muscle mass and size once the cycle is complete. I'm not talking after PCT, I'm talking years down the line. And in addition, I would assume the body is never going to go back to your natural test levels after cycle, no matter how careful you were. I think even if you play it safe and cycle once a year you would still eventually run into low test if you did it for years. I guess that's why guys get on TRT.

As long as your hormone levels are at an acceptable range and you're eating to support the muscle you gained on cycle, and you're stimulating your new muscle in your workouts, I don't see why you would think you would lose all your gains.

[MR10X]

You will keep a lot of your gains if you do a good PCT and dont go through a low test period,but you wont have s much muscle as you would while your on a cycle or do TRT and keep your test higher than normal.The more test you use the more muscle you will retain.And at what point does it become a cycle and no longer TRT....

[Armykid93]

Ive got a lot of time to reach my natural limit hopefully before I start a cycle.

[Armykid93]

When ur diet & training r tuned in, & u reach an unbreakable plateau no matter the "tweaks" or adjustments u mak, THEN, u hav reached ur natural limit. But it takes about a yr or so after u hav reached that plateau, of tweaks, adjustments & tests, 2 come 2 the conclusion that u hav reached ur natty limit. In other words, u don't just say, "I've reached my limit cuz I cant gain any mor", u mak adjustments in ur diet & training over an EXTENDED period of time 2 c if u can further ur gains.

Thanks for the info.

[mirin_serratus]

many will disagree, but it's hugely dependent upon genetics
a light boned asian ecto will never get as big as a big boned eastern european guy

[JohnnyVegas]

how long is a piece of string?

Well, it depends.

Ohhhhhh, I see what you did there.

[dec11]

You will keep a lot of your gains if you do a good PCT and dont go through a low test period,but you wont have s much muscle as you would while your on a cycle or do TRT and keep your test higher than normal.The more test you use the more muscle you will retain.And at what point does it become a cycle and no longer TRT....

false information

[Jean Claude]

Why is that false information? I'm curious cause I don't want to do a cycle if it's going to disappear after a year, given proper training, diet, rest, etc.

[dec11]

Why is that false information? I'm curious cause I don't want to do a cycle if it's going to disappear after a year, given proper training, diet, rest, etc.

because the truth is you keep very little of a cycle, been my experience and of ppl i know outside of this forum. think about it, if you kept everything there would alot of 500lb freaks walking around.
PCT has very little to do with keeping gains, its to re-start your natty system firing again. you wont maintain on the average weekly 70mgs natural test what 500mgs pumped you up to be

[tall76]

I agree it is genetics. Also would take years and years of not missing a single meal, workout or nap even to reach true natural limit on size

[Jean Claude]

because the truth is you keep very little of a cycle, been my experience and of ppl i know outside of this forum. think about it, if you kept everything there would alot of 500lb freaks walking around.
PCT has very little to do with keeping gains, its to re-start your natty system firing again. you wont maintain on the average weekly 70mgs natural test what 500mgs pumped you up to be

Yeah, I'm hoping that if I do one or two cycles a year at my current stats that I'll be able to keep some gains. I'm 6'2 220 lbs 12% bf. Mesomorph. Eastern European. I'm built like mirco crocop from UFC. His body is pretty much like mine except my arms and traps are bigger. Back is really wide. Shit I just don't want to do a cycle and then end up with lower test than I started with and lose all the gains I made. I just wish someone had a straight answer for me who is the same bodytype as I am and who did it the right way.

[gearbox]

again natural limit is hard, b/c you reach 220 (lets pretend) then with more high protein good diet and training you cant reach 221..or 222 in months to come...the higher you go the harder the gains get...and then imo injury sets most ppl back....

[gearbox]

I don't think natural limit can be a specific number. Lets say you get to 200lbs... how could it not be possible to get to 201lbs? If you arm hits 17.5, how could it not be possible to get to 17.6?

This game is based on the law of diminishing returns. The bigger you get the longer it takes to get bigger, (growth spurts excluded). When effort far exceeds results. That could be defined as 'natural limit'.

props bro..i like that..