Seeking affirmation from experienced AAS users about cycle.

[Darfus]

I have been an off and on steroid user for some time. It's been a few years and I'm a little rusty.

I'm 6'1" 190 lbs, and my biggest and best ever was 215 with about an 8% body fat coming off a sus/dbol cycle with proper pct including HCG and Nolvadex.

This is what I've written out.
Objectives: to gain roughly 20 pounds (at least) of lean mass and cut down my body fat from 9-10% to about 7-7.5%.
Note: I respond well to low amounts of test so I don't need to get in the crazy teirs of like 1-2g/week.

Clen: 2 weeks on 2 weeks off method, tapering up to 100mcg (depending how how sensitive I am to the sides) and and then tapering down at the end of my cycle. Should I continue this during PCT?
Test E- 375mg/week for 12-16 weeks (not sure length yet).
Arimidex: 1mg/ed (I am gyno prone, hence the large dose)
Nolvadex: starting 3 weeks after last Test E poke @ 20mg/day for 4-6 weeks. Since I'm prone to gyno I'm rdy to use this on cycle if I see signs of gyno.
Dbol: 30mgs/day for 4-6 weeks.
Deca: 250mg/week for weeks 1-10
Taurine: 3-5g/day
Benadryl: 100mg/night during my 2weeks off clen to upregulate receptors that were downregulated during Clen use.
HCG: 5000 IU for the last few weeks of my cycle , at about the 60% mark to prevent complete shutdown of leydig cells during deca/test use.
Vit E:1000IU a day.
Multivitamin every day.
Dostinex: I may use this if I see deca gyno sides, but I can't find any.

So that's it. I am going to watch my carb intake for the first time in my life (I've been naturally lean my whole life so fat was never an issue) to supplement the clen so I can get absolutely shredded.
Carb intake will be strictly beans and whole wheat bread, occasionally some whole wheat duram pasta.
Limited myself to <100 g of quick carbs a day except on my 1 cheat day per week.
High protein intake the whole time.
Moderate fat intake, not low, because I do want to gain mass.

Most of my previous cycles have just been bulking cycles so I am finally deciding to do a more balanced one.


Please be critics, friends, and experts when you respond. I can take criticism well. THANKS!

-Darrell

[Dr Pepper]

Clen is fine during pct, iv used it before during pct and went well. Personally I think your receptors will recover fine during the two weeks off without the benadryl but up to u.

How old are you?

What were your previous cycles?

Your test and Deca doses seem a bit on the low side especially the Deca, have u run these does before?

I'd use the hcg during cycle not in pct. there's a few differant views here on that...

Good luck

[Darfus]

Pepper,

I am almost 26 years old. I have never run Deca, one of the reasons I am running it at a low does. 375mg per week of test is an upgrade of my other cycles which have always been 250mg/week. If 250 worked so well, 375 is a significant increase. A 50% increase to be exact. So for HCG you recommend running it at like 1000 IU per week for the last few weeks in my cycle before PCT?

When would I stop the HCG, the same week of the last injection? In other words, before the 3 week period where I'm not taking any test waiting for the last few milligrams of the Enanthate to leave my body.

I understand the different techniques of HCG administration. HCG on cycle prevents the shut down of the gonadal axis and the other train of thought is using it
during PCT to bring back shut down testes.

[Darfus]

Previous cycles were just Sustanon kick started with Dbol. And back when I was in special forces I did a few cycles of pro-hormones. Tren Xtreme pills from American Cellular Labs that are now shut down.

[cro]

why the clen while on cycle? seems like alot of compounds. harsh on liver.

[Darfus]

why the clen while on cycle? seems like alot of compounds. harsh on liver.

Clen on cycle because I don't want the strong thermogenic effect to cause me to lose mass gains with normal amount of test (not on gear).
In other words, if I'm on gear while on clen, the potential muscle I'll lose will be masked, less severe, or non-existent.

I'm not too concerned with the liver being over taxed because I am only using one oral 17aa compound (dbol) for the first ~30% of my cycle. The remaining 2/3rds will be only injectables and ancillary drugs.

[auslifta]

Clen on cycle because I don't want the strong thermogenic effect to cause me to lose mass gains with normal amount of test (not on gear).
In other words, if I'm on gear while on clen, the potential muscle I'll lose will be masked, less severe, or non-existent.

I'm not too concerned with the liver being over taxed because I am only using one oral 17aa compound (dbol) for the first ~30% of my cycle. The remaining 2/3rds will be only injectables and ancillary drugs.

Drop the clen, you won't be losing muscle while on AAS unless your starving yourself. The deca dose could easily be doubled, and prob should be. Have something for progesterone control while on deca. Run HCG from start of cycle at 250iu's every 3 days, right up to start of PCT. Either eat to gain muscle or cut, will be more efficient this way, If I were you at that BF%(if you really are at 9-10%) i'd clean bulk for whole 12 weeks.

[Darfus]

Drop the clen, you won't be losing muscle while on AAS unless your starving yourself. The deca dose could easily be doubled, and prob should be. Have something for progesterone control while on deca. Run HCG from start of cycle at 250iu's every 3 days, right up to start of PCT. Either eat to gain muscle or cut, will be more efficient this way, If I were you at that BF%(if you really are at 9-10%) i'd clean bulk for whole 12 weeks.

To be honest, the main reason I was running deca at a low dose (250mg/week) was to save the extra money. Not doing too well financially right now. Just a few hundred dollars short of a perfect cycle. So according to you I just double the deca, which I am motivated to do at this point, and drop the clen. I really am at 9-10%. That was my estimate of the worst case scenario. I have a lot of experience with getting body fat tested and judging by my eyes I am AT THE MOST 10%. probably 8.5%. I can see my obliques easily, I just have a bunch of fat in my kidney area. I would like Dostinex or Bromo, like I previously mentioned, but have no contact with any. Could you help me out there?

[auslifta]

If you dont have the money, I'd suggest you wait. Food is the most expensive part of a cycle by far anyway. Post up a pic, i'm pretty good with BF estimates. Don't start until you have everything you NEED. You could PM a willing vet.

[jasc]

It's that time of yr bro, everyone's a little tight on $...

If you had great results on sust/dbol why not stick with it, only use test e/dbol.. Let your diet dictate your bf%...

cutting out the clen and deca will save u $ not only on the compounds, but also on the benadryl n whatever you decide to take for deca sides.. Use that extra cash to eat like a king.

[Darfus]

Pic you wanted: Only difference between this pic and now is I have about 20 more pounds of muscle on my upper body.

[auslifta]

Without a back and leg shot and going off that pic I'd say higher end of 10% more likely 11%. I'd stick to a clean bulk, you're lean enough, and it's hard to maintain 6% without gear. So when you come off you'll rebound back to about 11%. If you clean bulk you'll have an extra 10-12 pounds of lean muscle with a successful cycle before PCT. You will look better with an extra 10lbs than if you cut IMO.

[Darfus]

I usually gain about 35 pounds every steroid cycle and keep about 30. I think I'll bulk this cycle but just eat much cleaner than my previous cycles. Is that you in your profile picture? My picture, the one you looked at, could be deceiving, because 1) the more muscle somebody has, the lower their fat % will be just by the fact of a ratio. In other words, if someone had 20 lbs. of fat and gained 10lbs. of muscle, their BF% would decrease even though their fat stayed the same. 2) I have almost no fat on my legs and arms. Every time I get a professional to give me a caliper test it's between 2 and 4 on my thighs and calves and arms. So I would guess I'm currently 9% taking into consideration your educated guess.

Anyway, so I think I'll just do what I usually do (100% bulk cycle) and proper end up around 220lbs. with 9% Body fat. I don't gain any fat ever during my cycles, which are between 12 and 16 weeks. The only difference between this one and the others is I am going to be vigilant concerning my carbohydrate intake. No carbs a few hours before bed, and very little to no carbohydrates that have a high Gly***ic Index. That will be the hardest part. Don't you think? There are quick carbs in like 90% of American diets! Maybe 8oz. of Gatorade after a workout or something to replenish glycogen stores. And probably some orange juice in the morning for the same reason.

[Darfus]

Hey, Aussy, I found a better, more recent pic that shows more of the body.
This is more what I look like now.




edit: sorry it's so small.

[vtach12]

I am a little confused. You are currently 6'1" and 190#. You have stated cycles plural so you have done at least 2 cycles previously. And you stated that you keep about 30 pounds from every cycle, so if you started AAS at 130#!? Or at 100# if you have done 3 cycles?

[Darfus]

Don't assume that I kept all the weight from my cycles! I went through a really rough depression when the only girl I've ever loved, or slept with, told me she was lying to me from day 1 about who she was now and who she was before I met her (we lived together for one year and were going to be married at some point). So during that 5 month period I lost all of my gains and even went lower than I was naturally because of a ridiculously inept diet and activity level.

I've been 215 before with a low BF and I've also been 150 with a low BF. I have done a handful of cycles before, but most were just prohormones. This will be my 3rd injectable cycle (real cycle).

I am positive that I can get back to my biggest within just a few weeks.. and since I am doing a longer cycle this time, 3-4 months, I will most certainly beat my best PR (personal record) with this cycle I am starting in a few weeks. If I never lost any weight from depression (I have clinically diagnosed depression with a few other things, and before I was like that I never had these big lows in my life) I would probably be around 250-255, Arnold's weight. I don't want to get that big now, I used to, right now I will be happy at 230 with 8%BF.

So you are correct, I have done multiple cycles, but I haven't kept it all because there have been periods in my life where I am not mentally healthy enough to keep up the maintenance necessary with a body that is God-like at the beach. Now that I have depression, one of the best feelings for me is when I'm on cycle, I feel absolutely great. and the coming off of test isn't bad either. It just kinda fades away as I PCT and it doesn't cause depression, in fact, that opposite.

edit: What i mean by "I keep" gains is that if I continue to lift and get adequate protein in the 6 months following a cycle I don't lose any mass. Only under intense circumstances do I lose gains, like not eating anything for days and not being able to get out of bed, etc.

I'm not going to get into the personal stuff that happened to me, I do that with a psychiatrist. Hope I cleared it up for ya.

[Darfus]

Any other comments or advice?

[Darfus]

bump.