After 3yrs ON, a forced 6wk lay off

**akaz13** · 12-26-2011, 05:47 AM

As the title says, I was on for 3yrs. The day that began the 6wk OFF period, I was 268lb that morning.

I was on a low calorie, low protein diet and could only do body wieght moves.

I lost 70lb on my bench press & 22lb of body weight. Honestly, I think the loss of strength had more to do w/ not lifting heavy for 6wks than no gear.

What the thread is mostly about is the fact that I COULDN'T do a proper PCT. Yet, I didn't get depressed/ suicidal and I had no problems w/ erections..!? And that was after 3yrs STRAIGHT of being ON.

When I say 6wks, that is 6wks of no injections. I would have been OFF for 4wks after 2wks of diminishing levels of the test, tren and deca I run.

**lovbyts** · 12-26-2011, 05:55 AM

6 weeks is not that long. Hopefully you wont have any problems but it could be in a couple of weeks, a month, or a few months down the road. It's WAY to soon to say you are in the clear. Hopefully you are but dont be to quick to think otherwise. If I was you I would still get a proper PCT to have on hand if needed or even run one anyways just to make sure things stay normal.

Maybe all your gear was bunk for the last 3 years? JK but bet of luck and keep us informed. Personally I would not want to risk or suggest anyone not run a proper PCT and suggest no one else does.

**cro** · 12-26-2011, 06:09 AM

are you back on at the moment?

**akaz13** · 12-26-2011, 01:45 PM

Yea, I am back ON now, as of Friday. Double dosed so I am at peak levels as quick as possible. As I said, it was a forced lay off, I didn't choose to be off. Or if I had to be off, I certainly would have done it the right way, w/ PCT.

I wasn't recommending not doing PCT, at all!

I was just commenting on the experiment that I had to undergo.. And the point is, as we all know, everyone is different/ we all respond differently to AAS and their effects.

I know lovbyts was joking, but the possibility that my gear was bunk crossed my mind too. But before I used underground labs, I used pharm grade test (which I know can be counterfeited too). Whenever ppl trash the lab I currently use (different boards), I always say the acne & back hair (which I didn' have before gear) says that there are legit hormones in those vials & orals..

Also, look at this thread related to whether the gear was real.

**bikeral** · 12-26-2011, 03:00 PM

akaz13 if you don,t mind me asking approximately how old are you? Just wondering since I've read that older guys need to stick with shorter cycles and I am in that older guy category.

**songdog** · 12-26-2011, 04:04 PM

Wat is the purpose of this bro?

**akaz13** · 12-26-2011, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by bikeral

akaz13 if you don,t mind me asking approximately how old are you? Just wondering since I've read that older guys need to stick with shorter cycles and I am in that older guy category.

Late 30's - early 40's.. Being purposefully vague since there is enough information to indentify me if I get specific..

Originally Posted by songdog

Wat is the purpose of this bro?

Simply for the sake of information, as I said.

Meaning, tho I wouldn't recommend not doing PCT, I didn't do PCT and didn't experience detrimental side effects. Although, there are certainly undeniable physical sides w/ AAS, some are psychological. Specifically, a friend of mine fully believes he gets 'roid rage .'

I never had any roid rage, and although some ppl do get it, it is mostly in some ppl's minds and a built in excuse to be an asshole.

Like I said, it was an experiment that I wouldn't have purposely done, but the fact that I had to is informative - don't assume anything, evaluate thoroughly. Pay attention for actual effects, no percieved one's - both positive and negative.

**lovbyts** · 12-27-2011, 03:34 AM

Yes as you said I was joking and the hair growth, acne and of course shrunken balls is a good indicator it's legit. LOL

Well being off only 6 weeks and then jumping back on is no indicator that recovered in any way, only that you did not have any adverse reaction to stopping abruptly for a short period of time. I think it would take a good couple of months before you could safely say that you had stopped and not had any issues and then of course getting all your hormone levels checked. Not everyone reacts the same to even low T. I had low T, it was obvious for many reasons but the libido was not one of them. Typically that is the #1 issue but not in my case of a few others I have talked to or read about.

Again, such long cruises are not recommended unless you are on TRT and then PCT is not an issue but still using elevated test for long period of times your results are greatly diminished and although you may be able to maintain what you have but gaining more is difficult without changing things up.

I would bet that if you went 2 or 3 months without using and had your blood work done your results would come back at the low end of T levels.

**akaz13** · 12-27-2011, 04:04 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Well being off only 6 weeks and then jumping back on is no indicator that recovered in any way, only that you did not have any adverse reaction to stopping abruptly for a short period of time.

Right, I was just surpised that there weren't obvious reactions to stopping, as ppl in the AAS community and those outside, who are against AAS use, warn against suicidal tendencies, etc..

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Again, such long cruises are not recommended unless you are on TRT and then PCT is not an issue but still using elevated test for long period of times your results are greatly diminished and although you may be able to maintain what you have but gaining more is difficult without changing things up.

I got into powerlifting in a way, meaning I am mostly concerned w/ strength (tho not completely b/c I want size as well). Going off means stalled strength peaks or stepping back on OFF periods.

I have a decent system and I gain strength whether I am on full dose or 1/2 dose (my cruises). I have had a chest and back work out since friday and I am up 12lb of body weight already. My shoulders are an inch wider around and my arms are 1/4" bigger (from the 6wk off period). Of course this is just re-gaining some of the size lost.

My Dr knows I use and I get my blood work done every few months. The biggest issues I have are high creatinine and cholesterol readings. I think the cholesterol was from a whole egg eating kick I was on, so now I am on cholest meds until my reading is back in the normal range.

I can get the creatinine down my not eating a lot of meat before testing, no creatine and not working out a few days before testing (more muscle mass and muscle break down - a by product of working out - contribute to high creatinine levels).

**lovbyts** · 12-27-2011, 04:36 AM

Ahh yeah I hear you, my cholesterol is VERY high when I'm on, not just TRT. Only thing is I think most of the cholesterol stuff is mainly about $$$ more than health.

As for the mood stuff I think most of that has to do with how you are and deal with things naturally. Obviously hormone levels will effect you moods but most of us are good as seeing the change and not letting it effect us that way. Usually those who have issues already had issues but are not willing to admit it and want to blame something/someone else.

**slimshady01** · 12-27-2011, 06:34 AM

were you on high doses for 3 years or blasting and cruising

**akaz13** · 12-27-2011, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by slimshady01

were you on high doses for 3 years or blasting and cruising

I was upping my dosages every so often (when I felt I peaked). I was as high as 750mg of test/ wk at one point, with tren and deca thrown in, as well.

The inections were large volume to the point that I would split them (1/2 in one bi, tri or where ever and the other 1/2 in the other arm, etc).

But, 6wks ago I was only on 500mg test, 210mg deca, 140mg tren/ week. And I was at my biggest and strongest ever. As you have heard, it isn't the gear (the gear helps you recover but some compounds do add to strength and size) it is the training. And my training was the best it has ever been based on knowing what works best for me.

My 'cruises' really aren't strategically planned out. Cruises amount to me getting lazy w/ injections. So I might inject once/ week or every 5 days etc. Which puts me at about 1/2 dose, sometimes a little higher. There was one point tho where I was essentially off b/c it was 2wks between injections.

I was at a sticking point on bench w/ hap hazard injections, then got serious about 2x/ wk pinning.

**Far from massive** · 12-27-2011, 03:05 PM

Agreed with lovbyts,

3 yrs on and 6 wks off was not enough time to see the end result, particularly not with Deca in the mix which is notorious for taking a time to clear.

I am not saying this to be critical, rather so that anyone reading the thread will not think that they can get away with cruising and blasting for 3 yrs then stopping and not suffer a hard bumpy ride...even with a good PCT much less without one.

**akaz13** · 12-27-2011, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Far from massive

Agreed with lovbyts,

3 yrs on and 6 wks off was not enough time to see the end result, particularly not with Deca in the mix which is notorious for taking a time to clear.

I agree with your point on PCT. As I said, it wasn't a plan, it was a forced 'experiment.'

But consider what you said about deca (and the same would apply to tren ). The common thinking is that it/ they 'shut you down hard.'

So shouldn't my test have been off the charts low having used those compounds and not having re-started my endogenous test? Again, I am not advocating no PCT. Some of this is an academic/ theoretical conversation, but let's not be dogmatic, let's actually consider what happened.

**BuffBuffalo** · 12-27-2011, 07:21 PM

How's your bp been throughout the three years?

**Maulx** · 12-27-2011, 09:08 PM

I understand where your coming from in this thread but I hope nobody reading this gets the brilliant idea "hey this guy said he was fine I'm sure I will be too so I'm going to go on the next 3 years"........

**Bonaparte** · 12-27-2011, 09:21 PM

Well, with the Test E (presumably) and Deca in there, you may have never truly even bottomed out. And even then you probably wouldn't have been completely androgen depleted for long enough to suffer the sides. Some guys can function alright for a while without any androgens in their system.

**Maulx** · 12-27-2011, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Well, with the Test E (presumably) and Deca in there, you may have never truly even bottomed out. And even then you probably wouldn't have been completely androgen depleted for long enough to suffer the sides. Some guys can function alright for a while without any androgens in their system.

I'm not sure I understand this, would you please explain what you mean by "never truely bottomed out" and how he wouldn't have been adrogen depleted after three years? Not trying to say your wrong just looking to understand this better.

**akaz13** · 12-27-2011, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by BuffBuffalo

How's your bp been throughout the three years?

Mostly excellent.

My g/f is a nurse so I can get my BP taken anytime I need. Having said that, it has been high at times between the d-bol and tren .

I deal w/ that w/ fish oil, pycnogenol and turmeric (they also help w/ joint pain). Have to be careful w/ too much fish oil b/c it can lead to easy bruising. In addition to those, if my BP is still high for my liking, I pop either viagra or cialis.

**akaz13** · 12-27-2011, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Maulx

I understand where your coming from in this thread but I hope nobody reading this gets the brilliant idea "hey this guy said he was fine I'm sure I will be too so I'm going to go on the next 3 years"........

Then I suppose I shouldn't say how long I have run d-bol in a stretch?

In a side note, tren gives my nuts a distinctively strong smell (which remains after washing them). During the 6wk period, I eventually didn't notice it. Now that I a back on, I notice it again..

**Bonaparte** · 12-27-2011, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Maulx

I'm not sure I understand this, would you please explain what you mean by "never truely bottomed out" and how he wouldn't have been adrogen depleted after three years? Not trying to say your wrong just looking to understand this better.

Of course his natural test was non-existent.
I meant that he still had some exogenous androgens lingering in his body for the majority of that 6 weeks he was off.

**Maulx** · 12-27-2011, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Of course his natural test was non-existent.
I meant that he still had some exogenous androgens lingering in his body for the majority of that 6 weeks he was off.

Ahh I follow now. Thanks just misunderstood you at first.

**akaz13** · 12-28-2011, 12:33 AM

Isn't this getting a bit rdiculous?

Instead of re-evaluating conventional thought on the topic. We are now trying to shoe horn the evidence into old conclusions, instead of forming new conclusions. Albeit a possible one off conclusion, which would support the one size doesn't fit all theory.

What is the main reason given for bi-weekly injections? So blood levels are steady to avoid sides. Now someone (me) can go 6wks w/ no injections and not have a single mood swing and no erection issues, b/c there are still hormones in their system?

Those levels would had to have been quickly plummeting. Yet all I got was an ingrown hair b/c I didn't shave for 6wks, not a wild acne flair up... I know some ppl are more compatible w/ different meds, but this is a bit odd, isn't it?

And while I would never tell anyone to do something they aren't comfortable w/... I will bet no1 in this thread has had more blood work done in the last 3yrs than I have. I also went to a kidney specialist over the creatinine and BUN readings.

So while it seems so odd that I have been on for 3yrs, I have been closely monitored, and my Drs have full knowledge of what I am doing. How many arm chair steroid specialist on the board can say the same?

Another point to consider, how long does anyone care to guess Jay Culter has been on? My 1/2 doses are slightly above the upper range of TRT levels (have all the kids I need or want..). Also, while we're all worried about 3yrs on, ppl run HGH year around if they can afford it.

Not to mention, there are users who cycle insulin !

My 3yr run has been a lot safer than it's being portrayed. And no shots at anyone in particular (b/c I see it in other threads), but if you barely use, how do you run up thousands of posts on a steroid forum? Do you just like to be 'around it?'

Again, nothing at anyone specific in the thread, just a lingering thought about the mentality of certain posters. I was in the insulin/ HGH forum a while ago and there are ppl who have never used dispensing advice (which can only be theory, not empirical evidence supported by blood work, etc).

**BuffBuffalo** · 12-28-2011, 01:34 AM

I think the guys are just making the point that being on for three years is a bad thing for other members who might read this and think there's nothing wrong with it just because some other guy did it. I think you're educated enough on the subject to realize that the longer you stay on the less likely you are to be able to recover completely when you come off. Someone who knows these things and is aware that trt will probably be a necessity once your finished with such a long blast/cruise is really not the target audience I'm just guessing.

**FONZY007** · 12-28-2011, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by akaz13

As the title says, I was on for 3yrs. The day that began the 6wk OFF period, I was 268lb that morning.

I was on a low calorie, low protein diet and could only do body wieght moves.

I lost 70lb on my bench press & 22lb of body weight. Honestly, I think the loss of strength had more to do w/ not lifting heavy for 6wks than no gear.

What the thread is mostly about is the fact that I COULDN'T do a proper PCT. Yet, I didn't get depressed/ suicidal and I had no problems w/ erections..!? And that was after 3yrs STRAIGHT of being ON.

When I say 6wks, that is 6wks of no injections. I would have been OFF for 4wks after 2wks of diminishing levels of the test, tren and deca I run.

What u take for sides if you got any, when I got off without pct shit hit the fan for me at week 8..

Also is your liver values elevated?

Also u quote forced layoff. Why if I may ask?