Just Nolvadex with no test

[Gym_]

So i was reading that talking 20mgs of Nolvadex every day will raise your testosterone levels about 150%
I was thinking of taking this by its self with no test just may be some Clen ..

My Q is would raising my test by 150% make a noticeable difference ?

[xelnaga]

Ive experimented with using adex/letro in order to improve natural test levels. Ive read plenty of studies that suggest the increases that you referred to. However, I noticed no significant improvement in the gym compared to my body's natural state.

[Lemonada8]

I've been taking 50mg clomid daily for the last month.. I've noticed a slight increase in test (acne, weight gain, general tone overall)
But for comparison to a cycle, not even close

[xelnaga]

I would love to see natural blood work VS natural+ anti E blood work.

[slfmade]

Interesting thread Gym.

[xelnaga]

Most of the online studies are on men suffering from hypogonadism. So im not sure their results would be mimicked on a typical male.

[ghettoboyd]

So i was reading that talking 20mgs of Nolvadex every day will raise your testosterone levels about 150%
I was thinking of taking this by its self with no test just may be some Clen ..

My Q is would raising my test by 150% make a noticeable difference ?

i dont know for fact but im shure its only temporary cus then people would just cycle nolva and never touch test...not to mention that as your test levels rise so does your bodys need to aromatize said test into estrogen... your theory is the same as all the oc test boosters that allegedly raise your testosterone by destroying estrogen and some of them claim it raises test levels by some retarded amount like 300-500% yet ive never heard of anyone getting huge using these products...just my 2 cents...

[Flier]

I just started Tore 60mg ED. Will be on for 2 months.
If it raises LH, ofcourse it will raise test (with healthy leydigs)
You can´t measure this by performance in the gym or acne.
Must do BW. I will do BW in 4 weeks, I´ll let u know.

[BigGuy90]

Yeah I've read articles regarding only using Nolva and Clomid. From what I've been told by guys who have actually ran it by itself, it won't give you a big difference in the gym and definitely not as close as if you were using AAS

[Bonaparte]

You won't notice much. The side effects and risks far outweigh any slight benefit.

[Maddawg]

You can only raise your natural test levels so high, that's why we use AAS to get the big gains.

[Lemonada8]

I just started Tore 60mg ED. Will be on for 2 months.
If it raises LH, ofcourse it will raise test (with healthy leydigs)
You can´t measure this by performance in the gym or acne.
Must do BW. I will do BW in 4 weeks, I´ll let u know.

One issue you may run into is increased SHBG, which would lower free test. low free test is basically the reason for the 'low test' issues, total test includes test bound so it is not bio-available. Tore acts like estrogen at the liver, where SHBG is made and estrogen is a key regulator in that.

good luck though, and i look forward to seeing the BW in the future. Be sure to get a baseline reading now, and include SHBG in that.

Enuff highjacking this thread :P

TO the OP:

the consensus is pretty clear, that it wont really make that much of an improvement, and nowhere near AAS levels. But it may help push you past a current plateau, albeit it will be a slower advan***ent but advan***ent nonetheless.

Clen by itself would also be a decent addition, just be careful of the potential issues and dont rush into it.

[Far from massive]

You won't notice much. The side effects and risks far outweigh any slight benefit.

This ^^^^ if there were no sides to Nolv etc then it would be an OK idea, but all drugs of this type are very powerful with far reaching health consequences paticularly if run for longer than a few weeks.

[Flier]

One issue you may run into is increased SHBG, which would lower free test. low free test is basically the reason for the 'low test' issues, total test includes test bound so it is not bio-available. Tore acts like estrogen at the liver, where SHBG is made and estrogen is a key regulator in that.

good luck though, and i look forward to seeing the BW in the future. Be sure to get a baseline reading now, and include SHBG in that.

Enuff highjacking this thread :P

TO the OP:

the consensus is pretty clear, that it wont really make that much of an improvement, and nowhere near AAS levels. But it may help push you past a current plateau, albeit it will be a slower advan***ent but advan***ent nonetheless.

Clen by itself would also be a decent addition, just be careful of the potential issues and dont rush into it.

I did get baseline, and I will post 4 and 8 week BW. If I see no improvement after 4 weeks, I will end.

This ^^^^ if there were no sides to Nolv etc then it would be an OK idea, but all drugs of this type are very powerful with far reaching health consequences paticularly if run for longer than a few weeks.

U 2 mind elaborate on those side effects on Tore, Nolv and Clo.?

Op is not trying to raise his level to anabolic levels.
I think he is suffering from abnormally low test, and has low test symptoms.
Am I right?

[Far from massive]

While very safe compared to the risk of not using it for breast cancer, its use to boost testosterone would be very unwise. Look at it this way, have you heard of any HRT clinics suggesting its usage as opposed to Test to boost levels to even normal much less elevated levels?

As far as finding the sides. Its as easy as plugging the name followed by side effects into google, here is nolvadex.

SIDE EFFECTS: See also Warning section.
Hot flashes, nausea, leg cramps, hair thinning, or headache may occur. A loss of sexual ability/interest may occur in men. If these effects persist or worsen, notify your doctor promptly.

Remember that your doctor has prescribed this medication because he or she has judged that the benefit to you is greater than the risk of side effects. Many people using this medication do not have serious side effects.

Tell your doctor immediately if any of these unlikely but serious side effects occur: vision changes (e.g., blurred vision), eye pain, easy bruising/bleeding, mental/mood changes, swelling of ankles/feet, unusual tiredness.

Tell your doctor immediately if any of these rare but very serious side effects occur: stomach/abdominal pain, persistent nausea/vomiting, dark urine, yellowing eyes/skin, signs of infection (e.g., fever, persistent sore throat).

A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, seek immediate medical attention if you notice any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including: rash, itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat), severe dizziness, trouble breathing.

This is not a complete list of possible side effects. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.

In the US -

Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects. You may report side effects to FDA at 1-800-FDA-1088.

In Canada - Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects. You may report side effects to Health Canada at 1-866-234-2345.



PRECAUTIONS: Before taking tamoxifen, tell your doctor or pharmacist if you are allergic to it; or if you have any other allergies. This product may contain inactive ingredients, which can cause allergic reactions or other problems. Talk to your pharmacist for more details.

If you have cancer limited to the milk ducts, or if you are taking this medication to prevent breast cancer, then this medication should not be used if you have certain medical conditions. Before using this medicine, consult your doctor or pharmacist if you have: a history of blood clots (e.g., deep vein thrombosis, pulmonary embolism, stroke), conditions that require treatment with a "blood thinner" (such as warfarin).

If you have breast cancer and a history of blood clots/stroke, you may or may not be able to take tamoxifen. Discuss the risks and benefits with your doctor.

Before using this medication, tell your doctor or pharmacist your medical history, especially of: high cholesterol/triglycerides, limited or no ability to walk (immobility), diabetes, high blood pressure, smoking, cataracts, liver disease.

This medication is not recommended for use during pregnancy because it may harm an unborn baby. Consult your doctor for more details. Women of childbearing age should start tamoxifen during their periods or get a negative pregnancy test before starting the medication.

It is recommended that men and women using this medication use two effective non-hormonal forms of birth control (e.g., condoms and diaphragms with spermicide) while taking this medication and for 2 months after stopping the medication. Consult your doctor.

It is not known if this medication passes into breast milk. Because of the potential risk to the infant, breast-feeding is not recommended while using this drug. Consult your doctor before breast-feeding.

[Gym_]

Op is not trying to raise his level to anabolic levels.
I think he is suffering from abnormally low test, and has low test symptoms.
Am I right?

Was thinking along the lines of something is better then nothing
( you can read between then lines on that)
So basically some increase is better then no increase ..

Far from massive Look at it this way, have you heard of any HRT clinics suggesting its usage as opposed to Test to boost levels to even normal much less elevated levels?

Quoted from the front page of this site: "The elevation in testosterone provided by Arimidex is so large that it can be used as a form of testosterone repla***ent therapy for hypogonadal men"

One is Nolvadex and the other is Arimidex but there still anti-estrogen / just one is 5 times cheaper then the other.

[Gym_]

Thanks for the reply guys theres some good in-sites into this on this thread so far.

[Bonaparte]

Nolva and Clomid can cause permanent vision damage and are carcinogenic (yes, they can cause cancer).
They are also toxic to your liver and to other tissues as well.

Using SERMs for anything but breast cancer or PCT is fvcking retarded.

Also, Clomid can cause moodiness, and Nolva can cause ED.

[Gym_]

Nolva and Clomid can cause permanent vision damage and are carcinogenic (yes, they can cause cancer).
They are also toxic to your liver and to other tissues as well.
Using SERMs for anything but breast cancer or PCT is fvcking retarded.
Also, Clomid can cause moodiness, and Nolva can cause ED.

And going to a shopping center can give you leagionairs disease
And flying on a plane can give you deep-vein-thrombosis
And breathing in dust can give you Asthma
And Having a beer can kill your liver
And ASS can make u sterile
And having sex can give you a heart attack ..

Jesus mate i like ppls input on stuff but i cant worry about all that stuff I'm already worried the world is about to end because its 2012 !

WTF !!

[Bonaparte]

And going to a shopping center can give you leagionairs disease Well...if someone else there has it and coughs near you...
And flying on a plane can give you deep-vein-thrombosis Sure. Mostly if you're in poor shape and stay seated for 8 hours.
And breathing in dust can give you Asthma Why would you need to breath in dust, anyway?
And Having a beer can kill your liver Not A beer.
And ASS can make u sterile Yeah.
And having sex can give you a heart attack .. If you're going to have a heart attack, sex would be a good stressor/trigger.

Jesus mate i like ppls input on stuff but i cant worry about all that stuff I'm already worried the world is about to end because its 2012 !

WTF !!

Haha

[slfmade]

Haha

Wow...you were alot nicer than I thought you were gonna be with that one Bonaparte.

[nikalexopoulos]

Wow... Far from massive i quickly skimmed over ur massive post and i read "sexual interest in men may occur". If that is the case id never PCT. lol

[Gym_]

Wow...you were alot nicer than I thought you were gonna be with that one Bonaparte.

720 posts in 2 months.... i wont have to ask anyones advice on here soon ill just be able to go strait to you... you'll be a vet by this time next week hey ?
With all the fantastic advice you have gave on my threads

Gym_

[ghettoboyd]

am i the only one thinking that all these questions/threads from the op are attempts at fishing as hes going out of his way to let us know he dosent have a source and is looking for any possible alternative hoping that someone will hook him up with the real deal?...maybee im wrong but i doubt it...

[Flier]

FFM and BP....come on guys. You can do better than this.

The OP is asking a very interesting question. If we could stimulate the Hypothalamus or Pituitary in a safe way to increase Testosterone, it sounds to me like the way to go. So let´s discuss it.

Why is it retarded?

Does HRT clinics use this approach?
I have no idea. But I know that HRT clinics is not in the business of helping people, they are in the business of making money. And if restoring testosterone could be as easy as admin Toremifene, I am sure they would like to look the other way, and continue to admin their elaborate cocktail of meds.

I can google side effects of any over-the-counter med. and come up with a pretty scary list, so that means nothing.

BP, your list of side effects are true, but at what doses and length?
Did 1 out of 500 patients in a test study end up with vision damage (Using 100mg Clomid for 6 months), causing this listed side effect? In that case I´ll take my chances.

Nolva can cause ED due to a reduction of Estradiol. That one I have first hand experience of, so I will avoid Nolva in the future.

[Gym_]

FFM and BP....come on guys. You can do better than this. The OP is asking a very interesting question. If we could stimulate the Hypothalamus or Pituitary in a safe way to increase Testosterone, it sounds to me like the way to go. So let´s discuss it.
Why is it retarded?.

Thanks Flier .. it was a legit Q .. i did quite a few days of reading on the subject but didn't get a direct answer to the pacific Q i was after.. thats why i asked on here ..

I try and take a lot of the posts on here with a grain of salt as there is always at lest one or two posts on my threads that are ether being a out right smart arss or just flaming for some attention because they have no clue to the answer or prob don't even understand the question .. .. its a way of saying, pay attention to me even thou i have nothing usefully to say..

Ghettoboyd what dose it matter to you if i do or don't have a source ?? thats none of your biz is it sweet heart .. i think you should sit back and relax and have a big steaming hot cup of STFU ..

Thanks for the reply guys... Gym_

[Flier]

So i was reading that talking 20mgs of Nolvadex every day will raise your testosterone levels about 150%
I was thinking of taking this by its self with no test just may be some Clen ..

My Q is would raising my test by 150% make a noticeable difference ?

Regarding your OP...
I don´t think the 20 mgs Nolv / 150% test. statement is correct. Sounds crazy.
My test is 15, so that means by doing this I would raise it tp 37,5......No.

Will it raise? No.
Could it, depending on other factors as an existing health HPTA? Yes.

To your Q, will raising your test with 150% make a noticeable difference? Hell yeah!
Especially if you suffer from low T to begin with.

I raised my T with about 100% with Gel.
The results in the gym were more than noticeable, they were amazing!

Would you experience the same results? Impossible to say, we are all different. We convert, metabolize, respond differently. We have different numbers of Androgen receptors, we have different LH receptor sensitivity.

First things first, find out why you have low test, then target the cause. It´s a process.

[auslifta]

Nolva and Clomid can cause permanent vision damage and are carcinogenic (yes, they can cause cancer).
They are also toxic to your liver and to other tissues as well.

Using SERMs for anything but breast cancer or PCT is fvcking retarded.

Also, Clomid can cause moodiness, and Nolva can cause ED.

Not to mention the negative effect on lipid profiles, respiratory problems, joint disorder, depression, Myalgia, anxiety, Hypertension/Vasodilatation.........

[marcus300]

Taking nolva to try and get some kind of muscle tissue gain out of it is pointless, it will not raise them enough to see any kind of benefit, it will also mess up your levels which will result in sides especially if you are balanced at present, taking nolva is pointless.........

[MR10X]

I was told the imformation on the front page is old and not reliable......i have low test,age related and used Clomid/Nolvadex for a while and it helped with libido a little but nothing else. It would not be a good long term solution...

[jasc]

Wow... Far from massive i quickly skimmed over ur massive post and i read "sexual interest in men may occur". If that is the case id never PCT. lol

lmao

[Bonaparte]

FFM and BP....come on guys. You can do better than this.

The OP is asking a very interesting question. If we could stimulate the Hypothalamus or Pituitary in a safe way to increase Testosterone, it sounds to me like the way to go. So let´s discuss it.

Why is it retarded?

.

It's like I'm talking to a brick wall here.
I already explained why it is retarded. Side effects and carcinogens...for no measurable benefit.

The OP did not state anywhere that he has low test. You're just making this up.
He's just trying to get better results in the gym by boosting his test to supraphysiological levels, which isn't going to happen.

[Lemonada8]

Just for argument sake it's better than using prohormones as long as it's a low dose and over time..

It's not nearly as dangerous as you are making it out to be though

[Flier]

It's like I'm talking to a brick wall here.
I already explained why it is retarded. Side effects and carcinogens...for no measurable benefit.Disagree. That´s too bold of a statement.

The OP did not state anywhere that he has low test. You're just making this up.
He's just trying to get better results in the gym by boosting his test to supraphysiological levels, which isn't going to happen.

Hehehe...damn, you´re stubborn
Don´t forget Earth was once "flat"

Pretty sure the OP complained of low test in the HRT section.

"Toremifene Citrate exerts its effects by antagonizing the estrogen receptor in some tissues, and agonizing it in others. In this way, certain estrogenic pathways are activated and others are blockaded. It seems to exert estrogenic effects on blood lipids, reducing LDL and total cholesterol, as well as estrogenic effects on bone, improving density. It would also appear to exert anti-estrogenic effects in breast tissue, displacing the traditional effects of estrogen, effectively helping prevent breast cancer in postmenopausal women."


"Fareston is a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator. Other drugs in this class are Clomid and Nolvadex. SERMs act by being an estrogen agonist in certain tissues and an estrogen antagonist in others.

In men, at the hypothalamus and pituitary, estrogen acts in cooperation with the body’s negative feedback loop to send a signal to decrease the secretion of LH. When LH secretion is lowered, so are natural testosterone levels. SERMs, like Fareston, possibly act as an estrogen antagonist in the hypothalamus and pituitary, in order to increase testosterone production. Thus, although it hasn’t been studied to any great degree, it’s highly likely that Fareston is capable (or better) of increasing testosterone in the same way that Nolvadex it, as it’s androgenicity:estrogenicity ratio is 5x that of Nolvadex (1). However, in terms of improving bone mineral density, Fareston is roughly equal to Nolvadex. (2) Fareston, like other SERMS, would appear to have very beneficial effects on blood lipid levels and other health markers."



"Although some of the research looks promising, and it may be the case that Fareston can have potential to elevate testosterone levels higher than other SERMs being currently used by bodybuilders and athletes, the jury is still out on that."

Actually, I would say the jury is out on the OP, therefore the discussion.

[alpenguy]

It is a good question, The op was asking if it will raise your test by 150%. If you are shutdown it has the ability to raise your test levels. It will not dramatically raise your test from where you are normally, unless you are suffering from hypogonadism. Then still it may not help as your estrogen could still be in check. You CAN
. be shut down and your estro levels are fine. Tamoxifen has serious sides and you shouldnt take it alone. Through PCT i know when to stop - regardless of time - when my joints start to ache. Knowing that you have cut estro enough. then you get bloods and see where your at. My .02

[marcus300]

Just for argument sake it's better than using prohormones as long as it's a low dose and over time..

It's not nearly as dangerous as you are making it out to be though

Its better for what? lol there's no argument

Its pointless for muscle tissue gains - end of story lol

[Lemonada8]

Its better for what? lol there's no argument
Its pointless for muscle tissue gains - end of story lol

the point is that is safer than prohormones, and it does boost test by making the LH "better, for lack of effort in explaining lol"
The potential issue is the dosage, to high and then the sides start to accumulate, and depends in the person. Very similar to prohormones but since it's a regulated drug it's safer ( assuming good quality source)

[slfmade]

720 posts in 2 months.... i wont have to ask anyones advice on here soon ill just be able to go strait to you... you'll be a vet by this time next week hey ?
With all the fantastic advice you have gave on my threads

Gym_

Hey, all I was saying is I'm surprised he was so nice in his response. You basically said "Fvck you and your expert opinion, everything has risk in life, and I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do". He normally doesn't put up with as much as the other vets here do.

Even though there's been more "don't do it" than there has been "do it" you're still trying to find a way to justify it. If you want to run the Nolva...run it. When a respected vet here gives me their opinion, I don't come back with smartass comment. I take their advice b/c they know far more than you or I.

Also I gave you a pat on the back earlier for this interesting thread...I found it a good topic.

AND......Why the fvck did you have to bring up post counts???? I don't even get it!!! Do you have a problem with my post count??? If you really want to go down that road I did a little research and..... If you look at both of our posts, you'll find that of my 720...you'll find that 27 of mine were welcoming new members, 221 were in the lounge. You have 81 welcoming new member and 66 in the lounge. Therefore, assuming the non-lounge/non-new members posts were actually productive contributions (I can tell you right now they weren't) it would mean that 39% of your post and 66% of my posts have been productive contributions. So....you have no room to talk buddy.

Don't get me wrong....it's great to welcome new members and it makes this place more fun to post in the lounge. I'm just sayin to think about yourself and your contribution to this forum before you start attacking mine. That's all.

[Honkey_Kong]

the point is that is safer than prohormones, and it does boost test by making the LH "better, for lack of effort in explaining lol"
The potential issue is the dosage, to high and then the sides start to accumulate, and depends in the person. Very similar to prohormones but since it's a regulated drug it's safer ( assuming good quality source)

It's not safer at all. And on top of that after it's all said and done a cycle of Nolva wont give you any results. At least with prohormones, you have some benefit to risk ratio.

[Gym_]

k thats eghuff thanks for the replays.. thread can be closed now....
Nothing to see move on ppls