Next Cycle Statistics

[BBrian]

Now that I have my much anticipated goods on hand, here are the steak and potatoes of my next cycle;

Bulking:
Anadrol 50mg (1 every day weeks 1-3)
Deca Durabolin 250mg (two 250mg shots per week, weeks 1-10)
Test Prop 200mg x2 (400mg weeks 1-2, 800mg weeks 3-10, 200mg weeks 11-12)
Andropen 275mg (5 Test Blend) (two 275mg shots per week, weeks 1-10)
Anastrozole (Arimidex) .5 mg (every day weeks 1-12)

PCT:
HCG Weeks 10 - 14
Novaldex 20mg every day weeks 14-20

I know that many people use HCG throughout their cycle, but I prefer to use it the way in which doctors recommend - pardon the sarcasm.

Of note, I have always received 10ml bottles. This time, however, I have the BD bottles, which are all 25ml bottles. So here is my question; if the test prop, for instance, states 200mg/ml (milligram per milliliter), and they are 25ml bottles, does that mean that 1cc in the syringe is 200mg (consequently twenty-five 200mg injections per bottle)? This seems like more than double the amount I would have in a bottle that is 10ml of test prop at 200mg/ml, which has been the case in prior cycles.

[gixxerboy1]

what are your stats and previous cycles. Thats a pretty high dose of test you are planning on.
why are you waiting until week 14 to start pct?
yes you are correct about the test prop. And yes it is more then double the amount in a 10ml vial. its a 25ml vial so its 2.5x as much

[gymfu]

Why prop and deca, you have a short ester and a very long one. I don't like the PCT. I also think that's too much test.

We need to know your cycle experence.

[BBrian]

In response to why I'm waiting until week 10 (not 14) to begin HCG, for two reasons. One, that is how it is actually recommended to be used by the scientific medicinal community, and two, because that is how I've used it in the past, and with great results. It wasn't until I joined this community that I was made aware of people using it in a different fashion, and to be honest, I have been considering using it a different way. I suppose I'm stubborn when I say if it isn't broken, don't fix it.

My stats are;
Age: 35
Height: 5'10.5"
Current Weight: 175

I was weighing in at nearly 200 lbs, but last August I contracted pneumonia very suddenly, then again three months later. Consequently, I stopped training for several months and lost over twenty pounds. I'm back into full training now, however. I was also competing in martial arts again (after a ten year hiatus) before I got pneumonia, and am looking forward to that again as well. Essentially, my typical training routine includes lifting weights and cardio five days a week, as well as martial arts training (kickboxing/boxing/karate) three days a week...very active.

At any rate, my previous cycles have been something along these lines;

1st Cycle: Sustanon 250 (I was 23, in the Marines, and had no knowledge of PCT at this point. Obtained slight gyno, which went away on its own)
2nd Cycle: (many, many years later) Deca 250mg + Nolvadex, followed by 2000iu HCG
3rd Cycle: Sustanon 250x2 + Arimidex, HCG afterwards
4th Cycle: 200mg Test Cyp, 200mg Test Prop, 100mg Test Suspension + Arimidex, followed by HCG
Cycles 2-4 occurred within about a six year period. Of note, my body has a rather magnificent response to HCG, though I have noticed that response to dwindle after multiple uses.

But yes, that is quite a large amount of test. What would you do differently in that regard, as well in regards to my PCT?

[gixxerboy1]

i think drop the prop. There is no way you need that much test. And if you going to be doing mma its going to kill you.
Normally you would start the nolva 3 days after your last prop injection or 21 days after the last andro injection. You are waiting alot longer.
i think that is a very week pct especially for that cycle

[gearbox]

you still need to figure out if your going to do one long ester and one short as gymfu said above...
and I would run clomid along with nolva

[BBrian]

I'm not too sure what you guys mean. I stack deca with test for it's ability to protect my joints, though the anabolic affect of deca is certainly noteworthy. As far as stacking different esters, test is test, regardless of the ester, and I prefer to combine different half-lives so that my blood level of testosterone remains high throughout each day, which of course is the purpose of any blend like andropen or sustanon, but I doubt I'm stating anything you guys don't already know, so I'm confused as to what the question is here in regards to the esters. I will say, though, that my theory on this cycle is this; the last two weeks only contain prop, a shorter ester, so that by the time I begin PCT, it will not be in vain and most of the test in my system will have reached the end of its half life.

My last cycle contained three separate esters; suspension, propionate, and cyponiate. I shot the cyp once a week, jump started the cycle with suspension, and used propionate throughout the remainder, using only propionate the final two weeks. After the test was gone, I used 2500iu of HCG for two weeks, and after all was said and done, my natural testosterone levels were back to normal.

[gixxerboy1]

i'm not arguing on the esters. But the timing of when you start the nolva is off according to the esters you are running.
I still dont think you need over 1300mg's of test a week to grow.

[BBrian]

That's good advice, do you think I should wait 3-4 weeks to start Nolva after my final injection of the deca and/or andropen? What about the prop as well, while we're on the subject?

[gixxerboy1]

its 21 days after deca, 18 days for andropen and 3 days for prop. So depending on when you stop everything go for the longest time then start the pct.
if you did the cycle as laid out you would start week 13.

[alexISthrowed]

Imo your over complicating this cycle, and at your size and weight you should not need anywhere near this much gear to grow.

[BBrian]

Imo your over complicating this cycle, and at your size and weight you should not need anywhere near this much gear to grow.

Advice that can be learned from is welcomed, but vague comments fail to meet such a requirement. So, why not expound upon your opinion? All the cool people are doing it.

[alexISthrowed]

Advice that can be learned from is welcomed, but vague comments fail to meet such a requirement. So, why not expound upon your opinion? All the cool people are doing it.

There's really not much more to be said that gixxer has not already told you. 1300mg ew of test plus 600mg of other compounds is overkill when you weigh 175 at 5'10". You don't need two different tests, it's just not necessary.

[BBrian]

Alright, so this is where I'm at so far.

Week One:
Anadrol: 25mg first day, 50 2nd day, 50 3rd day, went back to 25 and took a Soma 350mg and some Tylenol to get some sleep(!) last night, 50mg each additional day with the exction of Sunday (0)
Deca - 400mg
Andropen (5 test blend) - 275mg
Test Prop - 200mg

I plan on taking less test each week than originally stated after taking in the advice of you fine, knowledgeable folk. The Anadrol I will take 50mg per day as often as I can, though I'm trying to ensure my blood pressure doesn't disable my rest time. I'm also taking a few herbals each day, such as milk thistle, centrum multi, echinacea/goldenseal, bovine liver fat extract (Standard Process Antronex), and fish oil. At any rate, I plan on continuing my cycle with around 400mg of deca each week, as well as 400mg of prop and 275mg of andropen each week. Still think I'm killing myself with this much?

[BBrian]

So, eight days into the cycle and I have already gained ten pounds. I've been taking Arimidex every day to prevent water retention, and I have been consuming six high-quality meals a day (never a protein shake by itself, but rather to supplement meals that I feel do not have enough protein), so I feel that it is ten pounds of lean muscle mass. Very encouraging, this is my first experience with Anadrol and I am very impressed.

[alexISthrowed]

I also just used anadrol for the first time and it was a love hate relationship, mostly love! I ran 100mg a day, slept like shit, I would sweat profusely, I was constantly irritated at everything, but I spent 20 days feeling like an absolute monster. I don't think your gonna die just yet with that test dose lol!

[BBrian]

Hah, thanks alex. I have to say that I respect your courage in taking 100mg per day. 50mg per day is definitely enough for me, though I have noticed that towards the end of last week I feel as though I've become better accustomed to the heightened blood pressure and have been sleeping much better the last couple of days. One question I have for you in that regard though, how do you feel about taking on-demand things that lower bp such as acetaminophen, prescription muscle relaxers (soma) or anxiety pills (zanax), or even mild opiates such as hydrocodone, as opiates also reduce bp?

[alexISthrowed]

Hah, thanks alex. I have to say that I respect your courage in taking 100mg per day. 50mg per day is definitely enough for me, though I have noticed that towards the end of last week I feel as though I've become better accustomed to the heightened blood pressure and have been sleeping much better the last couple of days. One question I have for you in that regard though, how do you feel about taking on-demand things that lower bp such as acetaminophen, prescription muscle relaxers (soma) or anxiety pills (zanax), or even mild opiates such as hydrocodone, as opiates also reduce bp?

Thanks man, I have found I handle higher dose's better than a lot of the guys I associate with. I never had a problem with bp well on anadrol surprisingly. I don't have any experience taking any other drugs to lower bp, I would think a low dose aspirin regimen might help.

[joebailey1271]

Hydro, xanax for high bp, all u will end up with is an addiction, might make u feel good now but eventually u will just be addicted. Whats wrong with clonidine for bp, works well and you only take if needed, also helps release gh from what i heard if you take at night.

[tjax03]

So, eight days into the cycle and I have already gained ten pounds. I've been taking Arimidex every day to prevent water retention, and I have been consuming six high-quality meals a day (never a protein shake by itself, but rather to supplement meals that I feel do not have enough protein), so I feel that it is ten pounds of lean muscle mass. Very encouraging, this is my first experience with Anadrol and I am very impressed.

Not to burst your bubble, but its very unlikely you gained 10 pounds of muscle in 8 days. Steroids can increase weight by increasing muscle tissue, increasing water, and increasing glycogen stores in the muscle. Controlling estrogen will help to keep water down, but there are other mechanisms by which steroids can cause water retention besides increased estrogen. Most likely the anadrol is doing its job and increasing intramuscular water and glycogen, which will help you lift alot more. The increased strength combined with a solid diet will help you gain the muscle you want.

[tjax03]

Hah, thanks alex. I have to say that I respect your courage in taking 100mg per day. 50mg per day is definitely enough for me, though I have noticed that towards the end of last week I feel as though I've become better accustomed to the heightened blood pressure and have been sleeping much better the last couple of days. One question I have for you in that regard though, how do you feel about taking on-demand things that lower bp such as acetaminophen, prescription muscle relaxers (soma) or anxiety pills (zanax), or even mild opiates such as hydrocodone, as opiates also reduce bp?

Tylenol does not lower blood pressure. As far as the effectiveness of these other things when used to control high BP, they produce only temporary, mild decreases in BP. Also they have a wide variety of other effects that can be counter productive to a bodybuilding lifestyle.

[BBrian]

Thanks joebailey & tjax, I was fishing for some advice from someone who may have experience with handling BP "in the moment". I'm not familiar with clonidine but I will certainly be researching it now - very helpful info there.

In regards to "Hydro, xanax for high bp, all u will end up with is an addiction", I have to seriously disagree. Addiction is a serious, common thing, but when used with moderation, for example in my case once or twice a month when absolutely needed, addiction is by no means a foregone conclusion. I've used any one of these narcotics on a very rare occasion over the past several years and have not developed an addiction. Sadly, not everyone has that kind of discipline.

At any rate, on the subject of Tylenol, I had previously been under the impression that naproxin/ibuprofen had an immediate effect on raising BP while acetaminophen did the opposite, but after doing some short research it would appear that I was quite incorrect, thank you very much for pointing that out. However, taking aspirin at night has indeed shown to aid in lowering blood pressure, and what I'm looking for here is an easy way to lower BP immediately when absolutely needed for rest or comfort, but I'm not looking for a long-term answer. In those regards I'm not so sure that taking aspirin in low doses on rare occasion would be a poor choice for me. And as for bursting my bubble, hey, no need to cut into my motivation brother

[joebailey1271]

Hey man just advice, seen too many people say the exact same thing your saying about getting addicted. If your increased bp is not due to pain or anxiety then those meds are useless and you are only taking them too get high, and you are just trying to justify a reason for it taking something to get high. I seen this same scene too many times, aint worth it man. Just have a looksy at opiate addiction, you might just find yourself in those people that tell thier stories of how they too was in control. But hey its just advice, you can do whatever you wanna do. Oh and if you are on them and drive, and wreck, you will go to jail for driving under the influence, just an fyi.

[BBrian]

Alright, so today is day 15 of my bulking cycle. By tediously experimenting with Arimidex dosages per day, I have managed to keep the bloating affects of Anadrol, test and deca well at bay. Anyway, day 1 on the gym's scale read 169 pounds - yuck. Not sure if their scale is out of calibration, or if other scales I stood on were, but I thought I was 175. This was the first time I used their scale. Of course before I got bronchitis four times starting back in August, I weighed around 185, but the lung infections turned from missing several workouts to missing several months and ignoring my diet.

But on to more relevant parts;
Today, day 15 (same scale) = 190 lbs

This made me feel all warm and fuzzy. Within two weeks of pushing myself to failure on weights four days a week, thirty-minute cardio sessions two days a week, and eating enough food to feed the family next door, my legs, arms, chest and back look absolutely amazing. In past cycles, it has taken me approximately 5-6 weeks to get these kind of noticeable mass and weight gains, but two things are very different this time. One is taking 50mg of Anadrol, six days per week, and the other is consuming a diet far more conducive to a bulking cycle than I had in years prior. Understandably, and despite using a little more Arimidex than I would without the Anadrol, water retention no doubt still plays a part in my weight gains, although I have quite a bit more vasodilation on my front delts, arms and quadriceps than I did two weeks ago. Similarly, just as it has taken 5-6 weeks to make these size gains on prior cycles, it has also taken that long to achieve the strength gains I've achieved in a fifteen day period. Things are going well so far

[alexISthrowed]

What dose of adex are you using bro?

[BBrian]

What dose of adex are you using bro?

I've tried 0.5 to 1mg of it a day, but at this point I feel comfortable using .25 every other day until I'm finished with the Anadrol. If I notice bloating start to arise on that dose, I'll double that (0.5 eod) until the A50 is gone. What do you think? You have more experience with A than I do.

[alexISthrowed]

I've tried 0.5 to 1mg of it a day, but at this point I feel comfortable using .25 every other day until I'm finished with the Anadrol. If I notice bloating start to arise on that dose, I'll double that (0.5 eod) until the A50 is gone. What do you think? You have more experience with A than I do.

I'm very sensitive to gyno, I took .5 ed when I was taking drol and that was with a low dose of mast. The lower you can comfortably go the better. I take .75 right now with the doses i'm on. Are you sleeping better? Hows the bp?

[BBrian]

I'm very sensitive to gyno, I took .5 ed when I was taking drol and that was with a low dose of mast. The lower you can comfortably go the better. I take .75 right now with the doses i'm on. Are you sleeping better? Hows the bp?

I appreciate that, gives me a better idea of what to expect. After the first week of taking 50mg of Anadrol a day I started having a much easier time sleeping. I can definitely feel that my BP is heightened but I seem to have adjusted to it fairly quickly. I will say though that my sleep patterns are still a little unstable. I don't have a problem falling asleep at night but sometimes I'll wake up around 4am and not be able to get back to sleep.

[alexISthrowed]

I appreciate that, gives me a better idea of what to expect. After the first week of taking 50mg of Anadrol a day I started having a much easier time sleeping. I can definitely feel that my BP is heightened but I seem to have adjusted to it fairly quickly. I will say though that my sleep patterns are still a little unstable. I don't have a problem falling asleep at night but sometimes I'll wake up around 4am and not be able to get back to sleep.

I had the same issues, bp was great but I slept probably 4 hours a night well I was on. I am taking ketotifen with clen right now and also 525mg of tren ew. I have heard about trensomnia but with 2mg keto before bed nothing is waking me up lol. Might be something to look into, it's cheap.

[BBrian]

I had the same issues, bp was great but I slept probably 4 hours a night well I was on. I am taking ketotifen with clen right now and also 525mg of tren ew. I have heard about trensomnia but with 2mg keto before bed nothing is waking me up lol. Might be something to look into, it's cheap.

Will do, as always I appreciate the info!

[songdog]

I think its to much test.Yes you are small for as many cycles you ran.Seems you need to work on your diet instead running more aas is that you in your avi?

[BBrian]

Yes, that is me in the avi at 195 and 5'10, if that tells you anything about the angle, but granted I have very large thighs from years of kickboxing training. I wasn't flexing in that pic either, very relaxed in it. My diet in previous years has been good for maintaining gains, but as I posted previously I dealt with several bronchial infections and pneumonia twice within the last year which not only led to quite a bit of loss in mass, but also in a lack of desire to train and eat, as you can imagine. As well, my diet now is much better in terms of bulking than it was when I was heavier and off cycle.

[BBrian]

I am interested in what you think about that though songdog ^^^

Is that you in your avi? If so I'll assume anything you say is the law

[alexISthrowed]

No that lee priest lol

[BBrian]

No that lee priest lol

Ah, figures.

[BBrian]

Well, I'm finishing the 6th week of my bulking cycle. Today I weighed in at 201 on two different scales. One is newly purchased and the other is a state-of-the-art sortof scale at a gym that gets calibrated often, so I felt that I could trust those numbers. This is a big deal for me, because I have never been able to surpass 197 over the years. I know it's just a few pounds away, but psychologically I perceive 200 as a step. Most significantly, I have adopted the best bulking diet that I ever have thanks to this website. And seeing as I'm only half-way through my cycle, I'm excited to see at where I finally peak. I only weighed 142 lbs when I started lifting weights at 19! Also, this is after stepping up my cardio during the last few weeks and getting my waist-line back down to what it was before I started overeating on Anadrol.

This is a good day for me

[stpete]

Congrats. I see you dropped the test dosage a little and you're seeing good results. Do you plan on keeping them the same for the last 6 weeks?

Did you get that PCT figured out?

[BBrian]

Congrats. I see you dropped the test dosage a little and you're seeing good results. Do you plan on keeping them the same for the last 6 weeks?

Did you get that PCT figured out?

Yes, I expect to continue to gain mass for the next 2-3 weeks. If I feel that I'm not, I may change things a little but right now I don't intend to. Also during the final two weeks I will only shoot propionate. And yeah, got the PCT all figured out, heh. Using AR-R products along with HCG on-cycle. Thanks for the encouragement.

[felk87]

Yes, I expect to continue to gain mass for the next 2-3 weeks. If I feel that I'm not, I may change things a little but right now I don't intend to. Also during the final two weeks I will only shoot propionate. And yeah, got the PCT all figured out, heh. Using AR-R products along with HCG on-cycle. Thanks for the encouragement.

Dang bro sounds like your cycle is going great, im on week 6 ending today and we have similar results, i started at 182 lbs and currently at 198lbs, keep this thread alive i deff wana see how much more you gain.

[BBrian]

Dang bro sounds like your cycle is going great, im on week 6 ending today and we have similar results, i started at 182 lbs and currently at 198lbs, keep this thread alive i deff wana see how much more you gain.

I know you're loving that man. Really good to see that your first cycle has been so producitve...I wish I had a source of information like this back when I did my first.

Will do!