Please inform me why not to take the shortcut!

**bbweld04** · 01-09-2012, 11:22 AM

First off let me say I am in no way looking for a debate I just want to be educated by someone with more knowledge.
I want to know why I should wait till I plateau before using aas? I understand it's so you cam get passed your plateau but I also understand a persons natural limit is pretty big. I don't want to be like Arnold my ideal stats would be 200 pounds with say 10-12 percent body fat. My current stats are 5'11" tall 195 pounds at about 18 percent body fat. Maybe a little higher. I have recently changed my diet and gone up on cardio to drop that before I start a bulk again. The reason I got up that high is from letting my diet slip but I'm back on track now. Anyways besides the obvious side effects most importantly the possibility of low test levels in the future why not gain say 20 or 25 pounds in a few months then spend a year gaining 10 or 15?
I should also mention I have only been training for two years tops and I was doing it wrong most the time. That being said I plan on doing it natural to see what type of gains I get but the temptation is always there. And I do want to do it and I haven't technically hit a plateau why should I not do it?
Thank you very much for your help and knowledge

**JohnnyVegas** · 01-09-2012, 12:18 PM

Going from 195 at 18% to 200 at 12% isn't a big jump that requires drug use, and the low body fat will mostly depend on diet and cardio. Not worth it in my opinion. I also think your belief that you will gain 20 to 25 pounds of lean body mass in a couple of months is a bit optimistic.

You asked why you should you not do it:
Illegal
Expensive
PCT sucks
Possible health risk
You might not get the big results you are expecting
Possible relationship issues (assuming you are in one)
Other serious issues if you are young

**bbweld04** · 01-09-2012, 09:45 PM

Hm see this is where I have issues. I don't even slightly care that it's illegal, money's not an issue. The health risk bothers me a bit but honestly when I was a young punk I put my body through much worse(not that I'm proud of that). My girl is cool with it and I'm 25 which as I understand is the earliest you cam do it. I'm going to keep doing it natural but guess if I ever do decide to do it I'll just half to make the judgement call. Just sucks seeing friends on aas getting better gains than me

oh well thank you for the knowledge!

**DeadlyD** · 01-09-2012, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

Going from 195 at 18% to 200 at 12% isn't a big jump that requires drug use, and the low body fat will mostly depend on diet and cardio. Not worth it in my opinion. I also think your belief that you will gain 20 to 25 pounds of lean body mass in a couple of months is a bit optimistic.

You asked why you should you not do it:
Illegal
Expensive
PCT sucks
Possible health risk
You might not get the big results you are expecting
Possible relationship issues (assuming you are in one)
Other serious issues if you are young

Johnny, can you elaborate on why you think PCT sucks please?....sorry to highjack.

**bbweld04** · 01-09-2012, 10:06 PM

That's cool I was actually going to ask that too. I'm going to assume it's the depression you can get when coming off aas but hey if you can't handle a little depression what can you handle. Maybe there's another reason though.

**ScotchGuard02** · 01-09-2012, 10:11 PM

To me, maximizing you natural potential is a maturity thing. Bodybuilding is one of the hardest sports I know. The dieting is excruciating, the dedication to hard workouts, sleeping early, rising early, staying away from alcohol, etc. It's not easy. I learned to appreciate the natural gains I made. When I started AAS (age 47) I could truly understand the benefits of AAS. Call me old school. Something that comes too easy isn't appreciated. You have to work hard for it. You have to be patient and put in your time. Without AAS at first. When you've reached your natural potential, emotionally and physically, you're ready. My .02

**Times Roman** · 01-09-2012, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by bbweld04

First off let me say I am in no way looking for a debate I just want to be educated by someone with more knowledge.
I want to know why I should wait till I plateau before using aas? I understand it's so you cam get passed your plateau but I also understand a persons natural limit is pretty big. I don't want to be like Arnold my ideal stats would be 200 pounds with say 10-12 percent body fat. My current stats are 5'11" tall 195 pounds at about 18 percent body fat. Maybe a little higher. I have recently changed my diet and gone up on cardio to drop that before I start a bulk again. The reason I got up that high is from letting my diet slip but I'm back on track now. Anyways besides the obvious side effects most importantly the possibility of low test levels in the future why not gain say 20 or 25 pounds in a few months then spend a year gaining 10 or 15?
I should also mention I have only been training for two years tops and I was doing it wrong most the time. That being said I plan on doing it natural to see what type of gains I get but the temptation is always there. And I do want to do it and I haven't technically hit a plateau why should I not do it?
Thank you very much for your help and knowledge

Here's the way I look at it mate.
First, I would say your two years in the gym is a bare bones minimum, assuming your diet is totally dialed in, with a good quality routine.
First of all, everyone underestimates the diet dynamic. If you know your TDEE, only eat clean whole food emphasising complex over simple carbs, and have the right macros, plus maybe an extre 500 to 1000 cals/day above your TDEE, you will, without a doubt, make gains in lbm. If your diet is not dialed in and begin to cycle, you will be like everyone else that posts a thread asking why it is so hard to maintain gains after a cycle. If your diet aint right, you have really no business getting involved in a cycle. I would say most newbs that come here do NOT have their diets dialed in. Unless you've actually studied nutrition either here or elsewhere, I will assume you are like the rest of us and are assuming your diet is right, when it is not.
So like most, you may begin a cycle prematurely, exposing yourself to the health risks associated with these drugs, and then, because your diet isn't right, lose your gains. Sounds to me almost like a lose/lose situation.

The less ready you are for steroids , the less your diet is truly dialed in, the less natural foundation you have to begin with, the quicker you will lose your gains post cycle.

So your two years in the gynm "and was doing it wrong most of the time" tells me you are flat out not ready.

The other issue is this. when on cycle, muscular strength undoubtedly explodes. You will be, like the rest of us, excited about how much stronger you feel. What you won't notice, yet is critically important, is that connective tissue (tendons/ligaments) strength always lags muscular strength. this means your muscles will be stronger than the connective tissue can handle. and since seldom do you get advance notice that you are about to pop a tendon or tear some ligament tissue, there is a high likelyhood for injury. one moment you will be lifting, the next you'll be saying... damn! my elbow/shoulder is killing me. and because you've been making such great gains, you will undoubtedly be tempted to listen to your buddies and simply "work through the pain" which is dumb as hell to do, so now you are more injured, and recovery time can be upwards of 6 months or more.

so instead of a short cut, you've really slowed down the process cause now you're nursing injuries.

So stop and think! When we tell you to dial in your diet, do the hard work in the gym, and spend the next few years doing it the right way, naturally, we do it for a reason.

Kapeesh?
---Roman

**songdog** · 01-10-2012, 12:52 AM

Well your old enough get your diet in order learn how to train properly and give it a try.Not everything is as it appears.

**lovbyts** · 01-10-2012, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

Here's the way I look at it mate.
First, I would say your two years in the gym is a bare bones minimum, assuming your diet is totally dialed in, with a good quality routine.
First of all, everyone underestimates the diet dynamic. If you know your TDEE, only eat clean whole food emphasising complex over simple carbs, and have the right macros, plus maybe an extre 500 to 1000 cals/day above your TDEE, you will, without a doubt, make gains in lbm. If your diet is not dialed in and begin to cycle, you will be like everyone else that posts a thread asking why it is so hard to maintain gains after a cycle. If your diet aint right, you have really no business getting involved in a cycle. I would say most newbs that come here do NOT have their diets dialed in. Unless you've actually studied nutrition either here or elsewhere, I will assume you are like the rest of us and are assuming your diet is right, when it is not.
So like most, you may begin a cycle prematurely, exposing yourself to the health risks associated with these drugs, and then, because your diet isn't right, lose your gains. Sounds to me almost like a lose/lose situation.

The less ready you are for steroids , the less your diet is truly dialed in, the less natural foundation you have to begin with, the quicker you will lose your gains post cycle.

So your two years in the gynm "and was doing it wrong most of the time" tells me you are flat out not ready.

The other issue is this. when on cycle, muscular strength undoubtedly explodes. You will be, like the rest of us, excited about how much stronger you feel. What you won't notice, yet is critically important, is that connective tissue (tendons/ligaments) strength always lags muscular strength. this means your muscles will be stronger than the connective tissue can handle. and since seldom do you get advance notice that you are about to pop a tendon or tear some ligament tissue, there is a high likelyhood for injury. one moment you will be lifting, the next you'll be saying... damn! my elbow/shoulder is killing me. and because you've been making such great gains, you will undoubtedly be tempted to listen to your buddies and simply "work through the pain" which is dumb as hell to do, so now you are more injured, and recovery time can be upwards of 6 months or more.

so instead of a short cut, you've really slowed down the process cause now you're nursing injuries.

So stop and think! When we tell you to dial in your diet, do the hard work in the gym, and spend the next few years doing it the right way, naturally, we do it for a reason.

Kapeesh?
---Roman

x2, well said and you saved me a lot of typing.

**bbweld04** · 01-10-2012, 08:37 AM

Thanks TR. Thats more the education I was looking for! I do feel I have got my diet dialed in with the help of people on this board and am currently cutting body fat(I'll note I'm note I'm doing a pretty good job of it too thus far). Far as the training goes I'll say my routine wasnt too far off the last couple years but more so I was over training. I was working each body part twice a weak. I'm on a 4 day split now and am trying to just up the intensity. I will compare results as I start bulking again. This time though I do know how to bulk properly and will hopefully gain without putting on the fat I gained last time I bulked improperly. Anyway I will take your advice and do it naturally with proper diet and see how it all works out.

**Times Roman** · 01-10-2012, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by bbweld04

Thanks TR. Thats more the education I was looking for! I do feel I have got my diet dialed in with the help of people on this board and am currently cutting body fat(I'll note I'm note I'm doing a pretty good job of it too thus far). Far as the training goes I'll say my routine wasnt too far off the last couple years but more so I was over training. I was working each body part twice a weak. I'm on a 4 day split now and am trying to just up the intensity. I will compare results as I start bulking again. This time though I do know how to bulk properly and will hopefully gain without putting on the fat I gained last time I bulked improperly. Anyway I will take your advice and do it naturally with proper diet and see how it all works out.

Good show mate!

My advice is usually NOT to do steroids until everything else is in place first.

When you get it all together, and if are still interested, we will most undoubtedly talk.

Til then.....

---Roman

**JohnnyVegas** · 01-10-2012, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by DeadlyD

Johnny, can you elaborate on why you think PCT sucks please?....sorry to highjack.

I have read countless threads here about depression, stressing because of losing hard-fought gains, soft erections, ED and other problems arising from the body's natural testosterone production not kicking back into gear strong enough, or fast enough.

I will point out I have zero first hand experience with PCT, but have been reading about it for a long time and every post makes me happy I don't need to deal with it.

**DeadlyD** · 01-11-2012, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

I have read countless threads here about depression, stressing because of losing hard-fought gains, soft erections, ED and other problems arising from the body's natural testosterone production not kicking back into gear strong enough, or fast enough.

I will point out I have zero first hand experience with PCT, but have been reading about it for a long time and every post makes me happy I don't need to deal with it.

Thanks for the reply bro, i have been researching PCT lately, it doesn't sound like alot of fun, but does sound very necessary!

**JohnnyVegas** · 01-11-2012, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by DeadlyD

Thanks for the reply bro, i have been researching PCT lately, it doesn't sound like alot of fun, but does sound very necessary!

Absolutely necessary. Matter of fact, don't ever start a cycle without having PCT on hand. You never know when you might need to cut the cycle short because of a family emergency or injury. You do not want to be scrambling.