Nandralone Decanoate & Aromatase Inhibitors - A Contradiction Within?

[BBrian]

I've often pondered a possible negative consequence of running AI's during a deca cycle. It's well known that one positive effect of deca is nitrogen retention, which is a major factor in muscle growth, and seeing as one very pronounced side-effect of deca is water retention, I've always connected the two (e.g. the affect of creatine in the muscle).

On the other hand, aromotase inhibitors such as Arimidex (Anastrozole) and Femara (Letrozole ) significantly decrease water retention. But as a result, could this reduction of water in the muscle tissue actually negate deca's ability to retain nitrogen? It's my understanding that our muscle tissue's water content and nitrogen content are synonymous at some level. And while I've attempted extensive research on the subject, I still find my knowledge to be rather subjective. So, I'd appreciate advice from those of you who are knowledgeable on this subject.

Thanks,
BBrian

[Exilus]

Water is not due to nitrogen retention. it is due to increased estrogen levels.

bulking components are powerful stuff, more potent than weak cutting drugs like winstrol , thus they have more side effects and that can include increased estrogen, resulting in water retention.

dbol and deca both have a relatively high rate of conversion to estrogen, thus resulting in water retention.

you will notice all drugs that are said to be causing minimal bloats are the ones that can't be affected by the aromatase enzyme and cant be converted to estrogen.


correlation is Estrogen - Bloat and not Nitrogen retention - bloat



estrogen is necessary to build muscle, but an aromatase inhib like arimidex not taken more than strictly necessary should not impact your gains.


The weight the aromatase inhibitor will stop you from taken is strict bloat. lean muscle gain will remain unaffected.

hope this answers your question.

[jimmyinkedup]

The realtionship is between nitrogen retention and glycogen - not water retention.
Deca to a very very small degree aromatizes to a potent form of estrogen that does in fact have a positive effect on glycogen and gh as well as possible positive androgen receptor upregulation.
The good news is this aromatization doesnt occur by normal means - it occurs by a series of enzymatic reactions in the liver.
My take : If the potent form of estrogenb deca aromatizes to is soley responsible for the increased nitrogen rewtention ( not saying thats def the case) an ai would not effect this process.

[Swifto]

AI's dont negatively effect gains that much IMHO.

Users think they have gained less because they simplu dont hold as much water as opposed to not running an AI.

The reduction in IGF-1 by AI's is also very small and non-existent in Exemestane at the correct doses.

[Swifto]

AI's dont negatively effect gains that much IMHO.

Users think they have gained less because they simplu dont hold as much water as opposed to not running an AI.

The reduction in IGF-1 by AI's is also very small and non-existent in Exemestane at the correct doses.

[Bonaparte]

AI's dont negatively effect gains that much IMHO.

Users think they have gained less because they simplu dont hold as much water as opposed to not running an AI.

The reduction in IGF-1 by AI's is also very small and non-existent in Exemestane at the correct doses.

Agreed. I recently ran Letro for a few weeks to get rid of some gyno caused by deca and it didn't slow down my gains at all (while I switched to test prop and Var).

[BBrian]

Thanks guys, that's exactly what I was looking for. I really appreciate your sharing this.

[jimmyinkedup]

AI's dont negatively effect gains that much IMHO.

Users think they have gained less because they simplu dont hold as much water as opposed to not running an AI.

The reduction in IGF-1 by AI's is also very small and non-existent in Exemestane at the correct doses.

agreed.
When u look at cost/benefit always better to use one than not too imo ....

[Swifto]

Agreed. I recently ran Letro for a few weeks to get rid of some gyno caused by deca and it didn't slow down my gains at all (while I switched to test prop and Var).

agreed.
When u look at cost/benefit always better to use one than not too imo ....

Not sure if you two had seen this particular study?

Below is a PM I sent another member today in fact:

Estrogen plays crucial roles in cycle and should not be totally crushed, just kept in normal ranges. Estrogen increases AR sensitivty and activation, positively effects lipids, bone density, glucose utilisation and GH and IGF-1 synthesis/production.

In this study, nine young healthy men who received femara at 2.5 mg daily for 28 days had a 15% reduction in IGF-1, a 24% reduction in leptin, and a 14% increase in LDL (bad cholesterol).

Aromasin (Exemestane) has been show to have NO EFFECT on IGF-1 in healthy subjects... Dont ask me how thats possible, because it also astounds me due to estrogens importance in GH/IGF-1 synthesis.

Exogenous testosterone as well as other androgens will further increase IGF-1 so will also negate these effects.


Also, look at the dose of Letro (2.5mg/ED), so I'd assume lower doses would cause less of an effect.

Take note of the decrease in estrogen at that dose too... "...decreased estradiol levels (−41 and −62%, respectively)." It seems aparent AIs are stroger in the elderly. I've also seen another study where estrogen was "lowered to undetecable levels" in... You guessed it, an elderly patient (1 subject).

I know I've gone off base, but there's some data on how much AI's lower estrogen and IGF-1 respectively (and increasing Test I guess).