Dbol/Test/Tren/Anavar Bulk/Cut Cycle

[bugsysiegals]

I finished my 4th cycle of Test C / Deca in October 2011. It was great. I put on 30 pounds in 16 weeks which landed me at 197 (The reason I was 167 prior to the cycle was because I did 1hr cardio 6-7 days a week for 4 months and ate less macros to purposefully try and cut my weight and get into the single digit body fat %). Shortly after the Test / Deca cycle ended I got really sick. I had no appetite and the food I did manage to eat I would typically vomit. This lasted a few weeks and unfortunately I lost 17 pounds ... FML!! I'm now back at 185 with body fat about 12%.

I'm planning for my next cycle which will be around March-April (going to get a full blood panel done soon to see how all my levels are). My ultimate goal is to end up around 200-210 and have my body fat near 6-7%. I know I could get to 200 with a bulking cycle but having that body fat at that weight isn't going to happen if I bulk to 200 this cycle. Since summer is coming soon, I've considered whether I'm more interested in getting near 200 or just being shredded even if it means losing weight. For some reason, dropping back in the 160's, even though I'd be really shredded, is just mentally frustrating and is something I can't seem to get past. If it were you, would you cut macros and drop weight with the goal to get near 6-7% body fat for summer, stay the same while dropping some fat, try to gain about 10 pounds and burn a little less fat, or just eat as many clean calories as possible to bulk and lose whatever fat I can? Hmm ... choices.

I've always heard everybody raving over Tren and saying how much of a beast it will make you or how it seems to make felt melt off better than any other compound so I'm really considering whether I should try it for my next cycle or not. I've read bad stuff about how harsh it is on the kidneys and certainly don't want to end up on dialysis ... perhaps these statements are false. I know it's possible I may lose hair ... I already have short hair so going bald wouldn't be anything of a super jump although I don't think I'd purposefully choose to be bald yet. Shall I try the Tren or stick with something else?

Anyways, some say Tren's a better cutter while some say you can bulk on it and burn fat very well. What do you guys think, better lean bulker or cutter? If I choose to go with Tren, which route would you go as previously mentioned (drop weight, maintain, gain a little weight, gain a lot of weight)? Since I have no experience with Tren, I have no clue how much fat I would lose with each scenario. Anybody who's actually used Tren, please chime in.

Lastly, another bro recommended a combo Bulking/Cutting cycle. I'm not even sure if anybody else has ever done this or mentioned it here but what do you think about 6-8 weeks of a faster acting Test such as Prop along with some Dbol and possibly some NPP or something else all while eating as many clean macros as possible with the goal to lean bulk as much as possible ... followed by 6-8 weeks of Test Prop, Tren, and Anavar while cutting back on the calories and increasing cardio with the goal of maintaing as much mass as possible and burning as much of the fat as possible? Has anybody ever done something like this? If so is it worth it to split the cycle like this or better to just go one way or the other only?


Age: 34
Height: 5'9"
Weight: 185

[bugsysiegals]

I also considered perhaps a 4 week on 4 week off, rinse and repeat, cycle pattern in order to maybe maintain gains better than longer cycles; however, I'm thinking at my age doing this would ultimately mean committing to TRT which at this point I do not wish to pursue. If this wouldn't necessarily make it so I would never recover, perhaps I could even switch back and forth between cutting/bulking every time I'm on. Is this type of cycle regiment likely to cause permanent and unrecoverable shutdown?

[Gi812Many]

Alot to read man...For you questions on Tren, I can only offer what I have experienced while taking Tren. As for it being harsh on your liver, there is zero proof of this currently. Its all speculation. As for it melting fat off of you like some miracle drug, no....Obviously im sure you know that is strictly diet. I have seen a huge decrease in my bf% primarily due to my diet and my maintenance cardio I do 4-5 days/wk 25mins low intensity. I think you could accomplish awesome gains just running Test, Tren and say Dbol and eat for bulking say for 8 weeks...then run 2 weeks at a TRT dose and then hit a Test, Tren and Anavar cycle, clean diet and cutt up. Should read up on Ronnie Rowlands thread to slingshot cycling at the top of the forum page. I am on my 3rd deload, 24 weeks total cycling and have seen fantastic results. I am taking the approach of eating high protein, 300-330 grams daily. Super clean, may take me longer to put the size on but I wont look like a bloated cow getting there. Im currently steady at 231 lbs at 6'3 with a reduction of roughly 8% bf. Started at 196lbs 7 months ago. My next cycle I will be on a 1000mgs of Test E, 1000mgs Tren E, 500mgs Deca and 100mgs Anavar. Hoping to to be in the 10% bf range at 238-240 at the end of this cycle. I personally love the Tren, although this is what I have experienced on it. I did have some issues with staying hard into my second cycle of it. After that, any hint of ED as completely gone away...Im a raging monster now, to a point I have never been in my life lol. I did experience difficulty in breathing during more strenuous workouts like legs or heavy lifting days like chest and shoulders and some cardio. That has gone away for the most part here during this last 8 week cycle. My night sweats have actually gotten worse, I literally have to wash my sheets every 3 days or it stinks my room up. My blood pressure has evened out this 3rd cycle as well?? This has been my experience....

[markdbg]

agree with gi8 comment on the ren being harsh on the liver, im on my 20th week of tren a at 100 daily and liver values around the same as they were when i started.

and if i was you, if u are breaking it up into two cycles with a trt level for 2 weeks inbetween, id run test and anavar and maybe npp if u want to add it for the first part, anavar will keep the fat down/burn fat depending diet and give u a boost in strength. then when u run ur second half the tren and test will cut you up even more. you grow lean and loose bodyfat and gain strengthin the first half, then grow bigger and get even leaner and get even stronger in the second half, all while looking good without the dbol bloat and puffyness.

[Userat204]

I think you need to make a decision on bulking or cutting. 6% is what pro's are at stepping on stage. Honestly it seems like you are a little confused as to what AAS can do for you, and ways to use them. I'm not bashing you in any way, I'm just trying to figure this out.

I would much rather be 200lbs at 12% then be 160 at 1% BF unless you are 5'1. I guess this comes down to you and your goals. If you want size then you need to eat. I don't like a bulk then cut back to back. It can be done, but it's not realistic for most people. Why add all the weight you can, just to cut right after and end up losing the majority of it. Then you get in a pattern of going up and down in weight.

You should bs able to add size, do everything you can to maintain as much as possible, then after you adjust to being at the new weight for a while, you can work on a recomp to cut the BF.

Tren is great but it's not for everyone and you should have a good amount of experience before using it. Most people don't gain a lot of weight on it, but they do recomp very well. J would work on diet before taking that route. Diet is the only way to gain or get cut but it sounds like you are losing all your size when you try to cut. If you lose 30-40lbs to get BF down at your size, then your diet needs work.

[bugsysiegals]

As for it being harsh on your liver, there is zero proof of this currently. Its all speculation.

Good to know

As for it melting fat off of you like some miracle drug, no....Obviously im sure you know that is strictly diet.

I know diet plays a huge roll but have just read that Tren burns more fat that say Test alone or Deca so was wondering if this is true or false. If it's false I don't know why anybody would want to take something so harsh when you can cut just as well with plain ole test.

I have seen a huge decrease in my bf% primarily due to my diet and my maintenance cardio I do 4-5 days/wk 25mins low intensity. I think you could accomplish awesome gains just running Test, Tren and say Dbol and eat for bulking say for 8 weeks...then run 2 weeks at a TRT dose and then hit a Test, Tren and Anavar cycle, clean diet and cutt up.

This was my thoughts exactly ... why not lean bulk as much as possible and then cut which I heard the Tren would hold a lot of the gains rather than losing what I gained.

Should read up on Ronnie Rowlands thread to slingshot cycling at the top of the forum page.

Yeah I read that before but just thought that if I tried it I'd be committing myself to TRT afterwards which I'm really not liking the idea of that at the moment.

I did have some issues with staying hard into my second cycle of it. After that, any hint of ED as completely gone away...Im a raging monster now, to a point I have never been in my life lol.

I never had any issues getting an erection on Deca but noticed it became super hard to get off and a few times couldn't get fully hard. Probably the Progesterone building up, dunno. I've got Caber but was scared to run it because I heard it was bad for the heart. I read a good dose of Arimadex would prevent it from happening so that's what I did. Thanks for sharing bro and good luck with your cycle.

[bugsysiegals]

agree with gi8 comment on the ren being harsh on the liver, im on my 20th week of tren a at 100 daily and liver values around the same as they were when i started.

and if i was you, if u are breaking it up into two cycles with a trt level for 2 weeks inbetween, id run test and anavar and maybe npp if u want to add it for the first part, anavar will keep the fat down/burn fat depending diet and give u a boost in strength. then when u run ur second half the tren and test will cut you up even more. you grow lean and loose bodyfat and gain strengthin the first half, then grow bigger and get even leaner and get even stronger in the second half, all while looking good without the dbol bloat and puffyness.

Yeah I keep thinking this is sounding like a good plan to me. Thanks for the input.

[bugsysiegals]

I think you need to make a decision on bulking or cutting. 6% is what pro's are at stepping on stage. Honestly it seems like you are a little confused as to what AAS can do for you, and ways to use them. I'm not bashing you in any way, I'm just trying to figure this out.

Being that this will be my 4th or 5th cycle, lost count already, I know what they can do for me in terms of bulking. I've never cut while on cycle and only while I was off. And I've never used Tren so I don't know why people rave so much about it if Test is Test is Test. Hence, the reason for creating this thread and learning more about it.

I would much rather be 200lbs at 12% then be 160 at 1% BF unless you are 5'1. I guess this comes down to you and your goals. If you want size then you need to eat. I don't like a bulk then cut back to back. It can be done, but it's not realistic for most people. Why add all the weight you can, just to cut right after and end up losing the majority of it. Then you get in a pattern of going up and down in weight.

Agreed ... I don't want to be 160 either but figured to drop to single digit body fat the 160's is probably likely ... based on what happened when I cut while not on cycle. And I figured if I do 8 weeks of lean bulking and then cut, my thinking was that the Tren would allow me to maintain a lot of those gains without losing them all while burning mostly fat away.

Tren is great but it's not for everyone and you should have a good amount of experience before using it. Most people don't gain a lot of weight on it, but they do recomp very well. J would work on diet before taking that route. Diet is the only way to gain or get cut but it sounds like you are losing all your size when you try to cut. If you lose 30-40lbs to get BF down at your size, then your diet needs work.

First I should make it clear I was not on cycle while I cut my weight 30 pounds ... and maybe even if I had been I would have lost a lot of mass anyways. Second, you're right, I've never cut before so I don't know what the magical number is in terms of calories to consume and how much cardio is the right amount. I was burning ~3600 calories a week with cardio and I dropped my maintenance calories by 500 per day. I'm not sure if I should've kept eating maintenance levels or if I was right in eating 500 less per day. I also don't know if that much cardio is just to much. I have no problem holding my gains so long as I don't get sick and can't eat but definitely need a better plan of attack if I ever decide to cut weight again in attempts to burn fat cause I certainly don't have that part down yet. Thanks for the advice.