Nolva During cycle question

[thex95]

From all the reading I have done Nolva should be used post cycle in conjunction with Clomid. I have personally done this on my first cycle which looked like this;


400 mg test cypionate Ew for 10 weeks.
.25mg arimidex eod until PCT
PCT starting 18 days after last injection consisting of
nolva 40/20/20/20
clomid 70/35/35/35

However I came across a sticky that suggests using nolva during cycle. for example;

Cycle 4:
1 – 4 D-bol 40mg ED
1 – 10 Cyp 400mg/wk
1 – 12 Nolvadex 10mg ED
1 – 12 L-dex .25mg ED

So I was wondering if people think nolva should be used post cycle or during? Thanks all.

Reference this sticky;

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.TxzdSW_2YsI

[Noles12]

There is no need for using nolva during cycle unless you are not running an AI and gyno symptoms appear.

Running arimidex and nolva daily will leave you with basically no estrogen which can inhibit gains

[alexISthrowed]

Tamoxifen is toxic therefore I believe it should only be run when absolutely necessary and on pct of course. Run an ai as noles said.

[felk87]

There is no need for using nolva during cycle unless you are not running an AI and gyno symptoms appear.

Running arimidex and nolva daily will leave you with basically no estrogen which can inhibit gains

How so, nolva is a reseptor blocker it has no effect on estrogen what so ever, arimidex binds some estrogen but doesnt kill any of it, so running both will be ok but is useless unless is to try to reverse gyno.

[Gi812Many]

Agree with with Felk....Its a receptor blocker strictly in the breast tissue. Although the only time you really need it if your prone to gyno like me and an AI doesnt do the trick fully. Although my gyno symptoms have decreased quit a bit as my bf % has dropped. I reduced my daily intake from 20mgs/daily along with 10mgs of Aromasin daily to 10mgs/daily (nolvadex). If your AI is doing the trick you do not need to take it during cycle. NOLVADEX is not an AI.

[Noles12]

How so, nolva is a reseptor blocker it has no effect on estrogen what so ever, arimidex binds some estrogen but doesnt kill any of it, so running both will be ok but is useless unless is to try to reverse gyno.

How exactly does it have no effect on estrogen if you are blocking the receptors? What do you think the receptors are for?

The way i worded it does not come off completely correct because nolva will actually increase your total body estradiol. But with receptors not being in a free state the estrogen will have nothing to bind to. It will decrease IGF

Arimidex inhibits the conversion to estrogen, hence it being called an Aromatase Inhibitor. Aromatase is an enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen. Therefore if you inhibit Aromatase you are ceasing the production of estrogen

[Gi812Many]

I love when someone gets complex like this...I learn With it increasing the bodies total estradiol, what exactly does that do...Estradiol is that something to do with Estrogen? Decreasing the IGF is obviously not good?

[Noles12]

Also both of those compounds will decrease all bloat. Yes this can aide in looks but some bloat is not all bad. Bloat increases intramuscular pressure which studies have shown to increase protein synthesis. There have been studies as well showing that increased intramuscular pressure can decrease muscle breakdown. It also leads to stabilization of joints by desensitizing the mechanisms that would cause the CNS to think the joint could not produce as much force safely.

So the CNS believing that you can take more force means more weight pushed which in turn leads to an increase in muscle

[Gi812Many]

What do you suggest though on someone who is slingshot cycling...Im always on either TRT or cycling. Increase AI use when your at a point of satisfaction with your body?

[Noles12]

I love when someone gets complex like this...I learn With it increasing the bodies total estradiol, what exactly does that do...Estradiol is that something to do with Estrogen? Decreasing the IGF is obviously not good?

Estradiol is a form of estrogen. You have probably seen it referred to as E2 before.

IGF is insulin like growth factor. It suppreses protein breakdown in the tissue therefore leading to muscle growth

[Noles12]

What do you suggest though on someone who is slingshot cycling...Im always on either TRT or cycling. Increase AI use when your at a point of satisfaction with your body?

I feel AI should be used as needed. You do not want to completely suppress estrogen due to the fact that a certain level is beneficial. But you also dont want to have your estrogen levels through the roof. High estrogen leads to many sides as well

Therefore you want to keep your estrogen at a reasonable level for a male. There is no way to know your exact levels without bloodwork so use of an AI is often based on trial and error.

My suggestion is to run one at a low dose and increase as needed to control estrogen

[felk87]

How exactly does it have no effect on estrogen if you are blocking the receptors? What do you think the receptors are for?

The way i worded it does not come off completely correct because nolva will actually increase your total body estradiol. But with receptors not being in a free state the estrogen will have nothing to bind to. It will decrease IGF

Arimidex inhibits the conversion to estrogen, hence it being called an Aromatase Inhibitor. Aromatase is an enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen. Therefore if you inhibit Aromatase you are ceasing the production of estrogen

Exactly you corrected what you said your first post was stating that adex and nolva would inhibit gains and kill e. Like i said running both would be useless unless you are prone or already have some degree of gyno, other wise it will just be a preventative measurement that some actually do just to feel safe, but imo gyno can easily be reversed if you catch it with in the first two weeks.

[BBrian]

How so, nolva is a reseptor blocker it has no effect on estrogen what so ever, arimidex binds some estrogen but doesnt kill any of it, so running both will be ok but is useless unless is to try to reverse gyno.

You may want to take a closer look at Arimidex and all AI's, as this statement is completely inaccurate. Arimidex works by blocking the aromatase enzyme responsible for the production of estrogen, so yes, it does in fact kill it.

Also, Nolvadex has a huge affect on estrogen - it prevents it from doing much more than floating around freely, i.e. prevents it from having an affect on the body by competing for the estrogen receptors. When the estrogen receptors are unable to to anything with estrogen, again, this prevents estrogen from doing much more than just floating around. This is useful for the fact that estrogen plays a part in the rebuilding of muscle tissue once it has been broken down.

[felk87]

You may want to take a closer look at Arimidex and all AI's, as this statement is completely inaccurate. Arimidex works by blocking the aromatase enzyme responsible for the production of estrogen, so yes, it does in fact kill it.

Also, Nolvadex has a huge affect on estrogen - it prevents it from doing much more than floating around freely, i.e. prevents it from having an affect on the body by competing for the estrogen receptors. When the estrogen receptors are unable to to anything with estrogen, again, this prevents estrogen from doing much more than just floating around. This is useful for the fact that estrogen plays a part in the rebuilding of muscle tissue once it has been broken down.

Bro im not sure if you read swiftos post and beyond that there are many other studies and post on this issue, no ai besides letro kills any estrogen they inhibited from aromatizing, nolva does nothing for free e ....all it does it blocks it from attaching to the breast tissue, other wise why wouldnt people use nolva as a stand alone ai? Adex, aromasin block e they dont kill it at all, letro kills 98+% of e .

[felk87]

I will post the studies when i get.home so we dont get onto this argument.

[Noles12]

Bro im not sure if you read swiftos post and beyond that there are many other studies and post on this issue, no ai besides letro kills any estrogen they inhibited from aromatizing, nolva does nothing for free e ....all it does it blocks it from attaching to the breast tissue, other wise why wouldnt people use nolva as a stand alone ai? Adex, aromasin block e they dont kill it at all, letro kills 98+% of e .

As i said earlier the effect Arimidex has on estrogen is blocking the aromatase enzyme so there is no conversion to estrogen. It doesnt kill it but it keeps it from ever forming. If something is not formed then it is not there

[felk87]

As i said earlier the effect Arimidex has on estrogen is blocking the aromatase enzyme so there is no conversion to estrogen. It doesnt kill it but it keeps it from ever forming. If something is not formed then it is not there

^^^agreed...

[jimmyinkedup]

This thread addresses and explains the most prudent approach based on the latest research and data. If it isnt a sticky yet it should be.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-cycle-Swifto&

btw - kill estrogen - prevent aromatization of test to estrogen ...lets not waste time arguing semantics.
ai's prevent aromatization - aromasin one way / letro and adex another. All to varying degrees.
As explained in the thread I linked too-aromasin has some benefits over the others in most cases for our purposes.
IMO nolva is now relegated to pct and emegency gyno treatment alongside the ai you are running if gyno symptoms occur. The ai dosage can then be upped ( or switched if necessary to letro) and after symptoms subside the nolva on cycle can prob be dropped.

[jimmyinkedup]

This thread addresses and explains the most prudent approach based on the latest research and data. If it isnt a sticky yet it should be.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-cycle-Swifto&

btw - kill estrogen - prevent aromatization of test to estrogen ...lets not waste time arguing semantics.
ai's prevent aromatization - aromasin one way / letro and adex another. All to varying degrees.
As explained in the thread I linked too-aromasin has some benefits over the others in most cases for our purposes.
IMO nolva is now relegated to pct and emegency gyno treatment alongside the ai you are running if gyno symptoms occur. The ai dosage can then be upped ( or switched if necessary to letro) and after symptoms subside the nolva on cycle can prob be dropped.

[Noles12]

This thread addresses and explains the most prudent approach based on the latest research and data. If it isnt a sticky yet it should be.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-cycle-Swifto&

btw - kill estrogen - prevent aromatization of test to estrogen ...lets not waste time arguing semantics.
ai's prevent aromatization - aromasin one way / letro and adex another. All to varying degrees.
As explained in the thread I linked too-aromasin has some benefits over the others in most cases for our purposes.
IMO nolva is now relegated to pct and emegency gyno treatment alongside the ai you are running if gyno symptoms occur. The ai dosage can then be upped ( or switched if necessary to letro) and after symptoms subside the nolva on cycle can prob be dropped.

Thanks. Yeah we were getting a little out of hand with the nitpicking. Im sure this was the post from swifto that felk87 was speaking of. It is a very good read

[BBrian]

Bro im not sure if you read swiftos post and beyond that there are many other studies and post on this issue, no ai besides letro kills any estrogen they inhibited from aromatizing, nolva does nothing for free e ....all it does it blocks it from attaching to the breast tissue, other wise why wouldnt people use nolva as a stand alone ai? Adex, aromasin block e they dont kill it at all, letro kills 98+% of e .

Yeah I think we're just confusing each other by describing the same thing with different words, hence jimmy's reference to semantics.
When I say kill estro, I meant that it kills the test's ability to turn into estrogen, not destroy preexisting estrogen. At this point I think we understand the same thing but are describing it in ways that makes the other think we intend to say something completely different. No harm done

[jimmyinkedup]

Thanks. Yeah we were getting a little out of hand with the nitpicking. Im sure this was the post from swifto that felk87 was speaking of. It is a very good read

^^ yes it is. Nice to see you back btw Noles....

[felk87]

Agreed those should be stickie...get on it maybe

[Cave]

Im new. What a1 inhibitor during cycle do you recommend?