First Cycle...Advise Needed!!

**xanda** · 01-24-2012, 05:35 AM

I am a 24 m , 5 years gym training, tried a lot of programs and diets... now after a lot of researches and reading for like 6 months i decided to go on my first cycle .
Height = 177 cm
weight = 75 kg

Now I am on week 4 of pre-cycle ultimate diet 2.0 by lyle mcdonald i will continue for 2-4 more weeks to drop my bf%
My cycle is going to be of test ethanoate or cypionate

week 1-10 400mg of test (+ proscar 1.25mg every day + nolvadex 5 mg every day + Nizoral shampoo) cuz I value my hair and don't wana loss it and since the cycle + proscar have side effects like gyno i will take nolvadex on cycle
week 11-12 nothing ( maybe continue with proscar 1.25 mg)
week 13-15 nolvadix + clomid therapy

what do you think guys is the cycle gd and enough !! any suggestions please?
also should i take arimidex on cycle instead of nolvadex and then on pct go with nolvadex + clomid ... keeping in mind arimidex have many side effects as i read about it like weight loss and weakness.

**dooie** · 01-24-2012, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by xanda

I am a 24 m , 5 years gym training, tried a lot of programs and diets... now after a lot of researches and reading for like 6 months i decided to go on my first cycle .
Height = 177 cm
weight = 75 kg

Now I am on week 4 of pre-cycle ultimate diet 2.0 by lyle mcdonald i will continue for 2-4 more weeks to drop my bf%
My cycle is going to be of test ethanoate or cypionate

week 1-10 400mg of test (+ proscar 1.25mg every day + nolvadex 5 mg every day + Nizoral shampoo) cuz I value my hair and don't wana loss it and since the cycle + proscar have side effects like gyno i will take nolvadex on cycle
week 11-12 nothing ( maybe continue with proscar 1.25 mg)
week 13-15 nolvadix + clomid therapy

what do you think guys is the cycle gd and enough !! any suggestions please?
also should i take arimidex on cycle instead of nolvadex and then on pct go with nolvadex + clomid ... keeping in mind arimidex have many side effects as i read about it like weight loss and weakness.

Is proscar an aromatise inhibitor??
And I think you could build a little bit better base before you start! This will seriously work much better for you!
What's ur bf %?

**Bossman** · 01-24-2012, 08:11 AM

^^^^Yeah, 5'8" at 165. And you have to lower your bf? If this is as big as you've been able to get you need to look at your diet and training program. AAS will not be a substitute for poor diet and training.

**xanda** · 01-24-2012, 08:33 AM

proscar is an RI type II 5-alpha blocker it prevents test from converting to DHT resulting to possible estrogen side effects and I know that it lessen my gains but i need my hair nd it is my 1st cycle!!
So as i read that combining it with AI will reduce estrogen side effects!!

my bf is around 18 %

**Bossman** · 01-24-2012, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by xanda

my bf is around 18 %

You aren't even close to the point you should consider steroid use .

**xanda** · 01-24-2012, 09:26 AM

i will post some pics today i think i have done my best in training and food
i know my body i am not genetically gifted and it is stubborn at getting rid of fat also it is sensitive to carbs!! i think i possess an Endomorph body type with slow metabolism

nd thx for the replies

**xanda** · 01-24-2012, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Bossman

You aren't even close to the point you should consider steroid use.

i will post some pics today i think i have done my best in training and food
i know my body... i am not genetically gifted and my body is stubborn at getting rid of fat also it is sensitive to carbs!! i think i possess an Endomorph body type with slow metabolism

thx for the replies

**BBrian** · 01-24-2012, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by xanda

week 1-10 400mg of test (+ proscar 1.25mg every day + nolvadex 5 mg every day + Nizoral shampoo) cuz I value my hair and don't wana loss it and since the cycle + proscar have side effects like gyno i will take nolvadex on cycle
week 11-12 nothing ( maybe continue with proscar 1.25 mg)
week 13-15 nolvadix + clomid therapy

what do you think guys is the cycle gd and enough !! any suggestions please?
also should i take arimidex on cycle instead of nolvadex and then on pct go with nolvadex + clomid ... keeping in mind arimidex have many side effects as i read about it like weight loss and weakness.

Aside from what the other posters have offered you, I'm not sure where you read this about Arimidex , but it seems very inaccurate. Arimidex reduces bloating, so when someone stated that it causes weight loss, what they should have said was that it reduces water retention that is a result of heightened levels of estrogen. The only weight they lost was the weight they didn't want in the first place. As for weakness, I've used Arimidex several times and by no means is this accurate either. Also, you shouldn't take nolvadex during a cycle unless the Arimidex is not doing a good enough job at keeping estrogen side affects controlled, but when taking only 400mg of test as a cycle, this should not be the case.

Also, are you already showing signs of male pattern baldness, or does your father/grandfathers have this?

**xanda** · 01-24-2012, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by BBrian

Aside from what the other posters have offered you, I'm not sure where you read this about Arimidex , but it seems very inaccurate. Arimidex reduces bloating, so when someone stated that it causes weight loss, what they should have said was that it reduces water retention that is a result of heightened levels of estrogen. The only weight they lost was the weight they didn't want in the first place. As for weakness, I've used Arimidex several times and by no means is this accurate either. Also, you shouldn't take nolvadex during a cycle unless the Arimidex is not doing a good enough job at keeping estrogen side affects controlled, but when taking only 400mg of test as a cycle , this should not be the case.
Also, are you already showing signs of male pattern baldness, or does your father/grandfathers have this?

thx BBrain for clarifying on arimidax after some reading on this product i decided to go with arimidax on cycle but at what dosage it should be taken and should it be taken during pct some say to take it .25mg 3 times a week and some
say .5 mg 2 times a week and even others say take it daily at .25mg which one is better
and yes i have signs of male pattern baldness and my father is bald

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-24-2012, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Bossman

^^^^Yeah, 5'8" at 165. And you have to lower your bf? If this is as big as you've been able to get you need to look at your diet and training program. AAS will not be a substitute for poor diet and training.

excellent advice....

**jasc** · 01-24-2012, 12:26 PM

Adex has a half life of approx 50 hrs.

I'd start with .25mg eod and adjust as needed.

You can take 1/2 doses ed, but not neccessary imo

**BBrian** · 01-24-2012, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by xanda

thx BBrain for clarifying on arimidax after some reading on this product i decided to go with arimidax on cycle but at what dosage it should be taken and should it be taken during pct some say to take it .25mg 3 times a week and some
say .5 mg 2 times a week and even others say take it daily at .25mg which one is better
and yes i have signs of male pattern baldness and my father is bald

Gotcha, I was just wondering what prompted you to go for Proscar and Nizarol. That makes perfect sense now.

As far as the Arimidex dosing goes, the reason you receive advice that's all over the place is because different levels work better for different people taking different amounts of anabolics, it's rather difficult to ascertain what the perfect dose is. The fact that Proscar would be introduced into the mix makes it even more complicated, as Proscar is not only prescribed for male pattern baldness, but also for benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). BPH is, to the best of my knowledge, the opposite of prostatic atrophy, and since atrophy is a side affect of using test, taking Proscar during a cycle could, theoretically, seriously complicate things on a cycle. Proscar can also cause erectile dysfunction and gynecomastia , this is a reason that taking Proscar while taking hormones that have the same side affects is probably a very bad idea. Another characteristic of Proscar of interest is that it is more effective in treating male pattern baldness of the crown instead of the hair line, so if your MPB is at the hairline, we have yet another reason to avoid Proscar. Though it is important that I make it clear right now that I have no experience with Proscar, nor any knowledge of other anabolic user's experiences with it, so if someone who does have experience with this can chime it, it'd be of great help. Everything I just stated is based on what I know from researching Proscar as I, too, have male pattern baldness.

At any rate, back to Arimidex dosing, if I were taking 400mg of test a week, I would feel comfortable taking .25mg every other day to prevent having too much estrogen buildup, and yet not completely annihilating it. Furthermore, Arimidex should be taking during cycle, but not during PCT.

**xanda** · 01-24-2012, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by BBrian

Gotcha, I was just wondering what prompted you to go for Proscar and Nizarol. That makes perfect sense now.

As far as the Arimidex dosing goes, the reason you receive advice that's all over the place is because different levels work better for different people taking different amounts of anabolics, it's rather difficult to ascertain what the perfect dose is. The fact that Proscar would be introduced into the mix makes it even more complicated, as Proscar is not only prescribed for male pattern baldness, but also for benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). BPH is, to the best of my knowledge, the opposite of prostatic atrophy, and since atrophy is a side affect of using test, taking Proscar during a cycle could, theoretically, seriously complicate things on a cycle. Proscar can also cause erectile dysfunction and gynecomastia , this is a reason that taking Proscar while taking hormones that have the same side affects is probably a very bad idea. Another characteristic of Proscar of interest is that it is more effective in treating male pattern baldness of the crown instead of the hair line, so if your MPB is at the hairline, we have yet another reason to avoid Proscar. Though it is important that I make it clear right now that I have no experience with Proscar, nor any knowledge of other anabolic user's experiences with it, so if someone who does have experience with this can chime it, it'd be of great help. Everything I just stated is based on what I know from researching Proscar as I, too, have male pattern baldness.

At any rate, back to Arimidex dosing, if I were taking 400mg of test a week, I would feel comfortable taking .25mg every other day to prevent having too much estrogen buildup, and yet not completely annihilating it. Furthermore, Arimidex should be taking during cycle, but not during PCT.

thnx alot bbrian for the advice... yet what i care about more than my physique is my hair!!so any solutions for my case ! u said ur prone to male baldness pattern ..what did u use for ur hair to prevent hair loss and if uu didnt use anything what would u advise me to use(i would prefer not to use monixidil since when i start using it and i cant stop) and about proscar i read that these side effects u talked about only happen with higher doses than 1.25mg ed and with long term use...what do u think??

**felk87** · 01-24-2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by xanda

thnx alot bbrian for the advice... yet what i care about more than my physique is my hair!!so any solutions for my case ! u said ur prone to male baldness pattern ..what did u use for ur hair to prevent hair loss and if uu didnt use anything what would u advise me to use(i would prefer not to use monixidil since when i start using it and i cant stop) and about proscar i read that these side effects u talked about only happen with higher doses than 1.25mg ed and with long term use...what do u think??

Bro at least for me i take 2.0 mg ed of propecia for hairloss, minoxidil 15& and no if you stop it doesnt make your hair fall out again, i go on and of minoxidil, you jusy have to make sure when you get of minoxidil to control your dht production. Minoxidil companies say that you must continue to use it to make sure you keep buying their product, aside from these i also use nizorral2% and i have no sides at all.

**BBrian** · 01-24-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by xanda

thnx alot bbrian for the advice... yet what i care about more than my physique is my hair!!so any solutions for my case ! u said ur prone to male baldness pattern ..what did u use for ur hair to prevent hair loss and if uu didnt use anything what would u advise me to use(i would prefer not to use monixidil since when i start using it and i cant stop) and about proscar i read that these side effects u talked about only happen with higher doses than 1.25mg ed and with long term use...what do u think??

I don't know enough about Proscar to discuss dosage I'm afraid. I've never used any prescriptions drugs for hair loss, using Nioxin twice a day has kept me from losing any hair since I started using it almost two years ago.

**xanda** · 01-24-2012, 03:31 PM

ok i am thinking of minoxidil now!! but still not convinced about that i can stop it after the cycle....also minoxidil effects will not appear until 4 to 6 months from usage...
One more thing will it affect my gains if I take it during my cycle

**xanda** · 01-24-2012, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by felk87

Bro at least for me i take 2.0 mg ed of propecia for hairloss, minoxidil 15& and no if you stop it doesnt make your hair fall out again, i go on and of minoxidil, you jusy have to make sure when you get of minoxidil to control your dht production. Minoxidil companies say that you must continue to use it to make sure you keep buying their product, aside from these i also use nizorral2% and i have no sides at all.

this was taken from minoxidil FAQ on the site of the company "During the first two months you may lose or shed more hair than usual. This will be especially true in the first 2-4 weeks as the follicles make way for new growth"
so while i am on the cycle i will shed more hair !! and for sure i don't want this to happen..!

**felk87** · 01-24-2012, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by xanda

this was taken from minoxidil FAQ on the site of the company "During the first two months you may lose or shed more hair than usual. This will be especially true in the first 2-4 weeks as the follicles make way for new growth"
so while i am on the cycle i will shed more hair !! and for sure i don't want this to happen..!

wow, nvm ok yes minoxidil will be life demanding. so DONT try it ok, dont listen to someone who has first hand experience with the product, but listen to the company that is trying to sell you the product. do you even know what minoxidil does to your scalp, and no it doesn't plan hair seeds and makes them grow.

**felk87** · 01-24-2012, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by BBrian

I don't know enough about Proscar to discuss dosage I'm afraid. I've never used any prescriptions drugs for hair loss, using Nioxin twice a day has kept me from losing any hair since I started using it almost two years ago.

bro then i dont get it how you started a cycle, what you listen to the few people who had sides, and if you do have sides you stop s simple. your statement is kind of hypocrite.

**BBrian** · 01-24-2012, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by felk87

bro then i dont get it how you started a cycle, what you listen to the few people who had sides, and if you do have sides you stop s simple. your statement is kind of hypocrite.

I take it you quoted the wrong person?

**Revelations** · 01-24-2012, 05:45 PM

Hair loss has been a concern of mine also...I was looking into proscar, but I heard it wasnt good to take during a cycle. I will look into the Nioxin...I love the info

**xanda** · 01-25-2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by felk87

wow, nvm ok yes minoxidil will be life demanding. so DONT try it ok, dont listen to someone who has first hand experience with the product, but listen to the company that is trying to sell you the product. do you even know what minoxidil does to your scalp, and no it doesn't plan hair seeds and makes them grow.

I know that there are marketing lies on the company sites but i also heard this from a doctor but also maybe he is benefiting from prescribing nobody knows !!!
minoxidil was first used for high blood pressure treatment and no body completely understands how it really works its a potassium channel opener and it doesn't even block dht at the scalp!!
anw i will try minoxidil as it is the only solution best fits but still one more question i read that minoxidil is only claimed to be effective at the crown and vertex is this true?
and thx for the help!