PCT after first Sustanon cycle

**Raggz** · 01-26-2012, 06:55 AM

Hey fellas!

This is me:
Age: 24
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 147 lb
Bodyfat: 10.5%

I've been working out for over two years and just started my first cycle, doing 250mg sust per week for 10 weeks.
This being my first cycle I wanna do everything by the book and ignore people I know who are telling me I don't need PCT, this is a small dosage and I want to keep all my gains after the cycle if possible. (Optimistic, I know.)
So my question to you guys is, if I get my hands on some Nolva how much do you think I need and when should I start taking it?

**The Bear 79** · 01-26-2012, 07:25 AM

You should have ALL your AI's / PCT in hand, BEFORE you 1st injection. What if your order gets held up for some reason or maybe it doesn't show up at all because it got seized or you got scammed. Now you're stuck with man boobs, a shut down hormone system, & no way of treating & recovering. Sust. has a long ester, so start your PCT 14 days after you last injection, the dose will be 40/40/20/20 A lot of guys here also like to use Clomid with the Nolva, I personally don't think its necessary, I've always made a full recovery on just Nolva, but after you do some research on it, you can decide for yourself. You should also have an AI on hand like Arimadex or Aromasin , to combat estrogen side effects on cycle. HCG wouldn't be a bad idea either, it will decrease or eliminate testicular atrophy & make recovery much easier.

**steyrprohunter** · 01-26-2012, 07:56 AM

If nolva is taken during a first cycle is it still necessary to take it afterwards as PCT as well- this question is for THE BEAR 79

**Raggz** · 01-26-2012, 07:57 AM

Is that 40/40/20/20 a day or a week? And let me rephrase that... I know I can get my hands on Nolva! But aren't you being a little dramatic? I have at least 4 friends that did the exact same cycle without any PCT or anything else and the only thing they complained about was how fast they lost most of their gains. Like I said, this is a pretty small dose.

**The Bear 79** · 01-26-2012, 08:08 AM

That's 40 mg/ed the 1st & 2nd wk, & 20 mg/ed the 3rd & 4rth wk. No I'm not being dramatic, the scenario I laid out happens all the time, & people end up in a real bad spot because of it. Don't fall into believing "its a small dose , I'll be OK" 250 mg/wk is more than enough to shut you down. Your friends are stupid, 1 for cycling & not running PCT, & 2 for thinking if they DID run PCT, they would have kept their gains. PCT is used to "reboot" your natural hormone production, it has nothing to do with keeping of losing gains.

**The Bear 79** · 01-26-2012, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by steyrprohunter

If nolva is taken during a first cycle is it still necessary to take it afterwards as PCT as well- this question is for THE BEAR 79

Yes. Even if you're using Nolva to combat Gyno, while on cycle, you will still need to use it during PCT to recover your natural Test production. No matter if its your 1st cycle or your 100th cycle.

**Raggz** · 01-26-2012, 08:44 AM

How much Nolva should be used to combat Gyno?

**The Bear 79** · 01-26-2012, 08:46 AM

I use 20 mg/ed until symptoms subside & then for another week after.

**marcus300** · 01-26-2012, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Raggz

Hey fellas!

This is me:
Age: 24
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 147 lb
Bodyfat: 10.5%

I've been working out for over two years and just started my first cycle, doing 250mg sust per week for 10 weeks.
This being my first cycle I wanna do everything by the book and ignore people I know who are telling me I don't need PCT, this is a small dosage and I want to keep all my gains after the cycle if possible. (Optimistic, I know.)
So my question to you guys is, if I get my hands on some Nolva how much do you think I need and when should I start taking it?

You shouldn't of started this cycle yet, at 147lbs you can gain alot more natural base which would help you immensely when you start your cycle. You diet needs alot of work and you will lose most of your gains after the cycle because your diet wont and cant support any new tissue. IMHO you should stop the cycle and concentrate on getting your diet in check and build more natural mass.

**acidking** · 01-26-2012, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

You shouldn't of started this cycle yet, at 147lbs you can gain alot more natural base which would help you immensely when you start your cycle. You diet needs alot of work and you will lose most of your gains after the cycle because your diet wont and cant support any new tissue. IMHO you should stop the cycle and concentrate on getting your diet in check and build more natural mass.

True ... I wonder how come you've worked out for two years and you're still at 147? a bad diet perhaps?

I'd suggest up your dose to 500mg Sust a week, see my post I just finished a Sust cycle and I've posted results.

**gixxerboy1** · 01-26-2012, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Raggz

Is that 40/40/20/20 a day or a week? And let me rephrase that... I know I can get my hands on Nolva! But aren't you being a little dramatic? I have at least 4 friends that did the exact same cycle without any PCT or anything else and the only thing they complained about was how fast they lost most of their gains. Like I said, this is a pretty small dose.

why do you think they lost their gains so fast.
gyno or how bear put it"man boobs" can happen at a very low dose. It just depends how sensitive to estro you are. I can run any dose and never get them. i have friends that just look at a bottle of test and they get sore nips. So what happened to your friends mean nothing

**acidking** · 01-26-2012, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Raggz

Like I said, this is a pretty small dose.

Don't underestimate 250mg, it's not small when you consider that your body naturally produces about 70mg of tests a week, so 250mg is like 350% your natural tests, enough to cause problems.

**Ashop** · 01-26-2012, 01:59 PM

PCT for 3 weeks:
CLOMID: 100MG WK1, 50MG WK2, 50MG WK3 (DAILY)
NOLVA: 40MG WK1, 30MG WK2, 20MG WK3 (DAILY)

**The Bear 79** · 01-26-2012, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by acidking

Don't underestimate 250mg, it's not small when you consider that your body naturally produces about 70mg of tests a week, so 250mg is like 350% your natural tests, enough to cause problems.

Actually an adult male produces between 4 & 6 mg per day naturally, that's 280 - 420 mg per wk. The problem arises when the body recognizes excessive test levels & stops producing its own because there's more than enough.

**tomt45** · 01-26-2012, 02:03 PM

Raggz he is not being overdrammatic. Pct is more important than the cycle itself. Wonder why they lost their gains? I hope they can still get it up in there 30's... I agree with marcus though man, no offense but you are not ready to use steroids . You are 5'8" 147 with 10.5%bf. Its clear that your diet needs to improve and so does your routine most likely. I suggest your get a good handle on how to eat and workout to get good natural gains before you use steroids . Otherwise you will lose all of your gains almost immediately when you get off.

I know this from personal experience. I rushed into my first cycle and hadn't been training long enough and my diet sucked. I got some gains but lost them immediately. Good luck man

**acidking** · 01-26-2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

Actually an adult male produces between 4 & 6 mg per day naturally, that's 280 - 420 mg per wk

You meant 40-60mg per day? or 28-42mg per week? ... I read somewhere on these forums it's about 70mg per week.

**The Bear 79** · 01-26-2012, 02:45 PM

HA! LOL! Yes, 28 - 42 not 280 - 420 sorry. lol. That was in a study done by Dr. Young, I cant find the study now for some reason, all I can find are pieces of it posted here & there throughout the internet. I also saw another study that said 7 mg per day. Honestly, its hard to know what to believe with so many different sources of legit info telling different stories.

**Razor** · 01-26-2012, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

You should have ALL your AI's / PCT in hand, BEFORE you 1st injection. What if your order gets held up for some reason or maybe it doesn't show up at all because it got seized or you got scammed. Now you're stuck with man boobs, a shut down hormone system, & no way of treating & recovering. Sust. has a long ester, so start your PCT 14 days after you last injection, the dose will be 40/40/20/20 A lot of guys here also like to use Clomid with the Nolva, I personally don't think its necessary, I've always made a full recovery on just Nolva, but after you do some research on it, you can decide for yourself. You should also have an AI on hand like Arimadex or Aromasin, to combat estrogen side effects on cycle. HCG wouldn't be a bad idea either, it will decrease or eliminate testicular atrophy & make recovery much easier.

Excellent advise as always.

**BBrian** · 01-26-2012, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Raggz

Is that 40/40/20/20 a day or a week? And let me rephrase that... I know I can get my hands on Nolva! But aren't you being a little dramatic? I have at least 4 friends that did the exact same cycle without any PCT or anything else and the only thing they complained about was how fast they lost most of their gains. Like I said, this is a pretty small dose.

Actually there is a direct correlation between not running PCT and losing gains. If the gonads are not producing optimal levels of testosterone and you cease to inject testosterone from an alternate source, your body will suddenly have a drastic decrease in test, which is what produced the gains in the first place. Therefore it is of the utmost importance that PCT be implemented in order to maintain as much testosterone post-cycle as possible. The more test you have, the less muscle you lose.