AAS & PH's Class I and II, relevant ?

[pocketboy]

Dear fellows;

I have been doing some research about possibly "stacks". According to Bill Robert, there are two classes of AAS : Class I and II (listed below).
It is said that the best is to stack Class I and II, which yield to a synergy. It is also said that stacking 2 class I or 2 class II would lead to a "receptor competition" which yield to waste of compound, thus waste of effects.

As we all are aware of, Designer Steroids are just steroids that are not classified as illegal yet. But none of you can argue about the fact that Superdrol is a 100% potent steroid. This phenomenon made me think that we can also classified PH's in those two categories, and I found this :




Class I : binds to androgen receptor

AAS :

Trenbolone
Oxandrolone
Primobolan
Masteron
Nandrolone
Boldenone

PH's :

Masteron (Dromostanolone) based - Superdrol & Clones
Boldenone based - 1,4AD & Bold
Progestin based - (similar to trenbolone) - Trenadrol & Trenaplex
Dienolone based - (again similar to tren) - Mdien
Mepitiostane (Thioderon) based - Epistane & Clones (like Havoc & so on so forth)
Desoxymethyltestosterone/DMT (Madol) based phs - Pheraplex & clones
Testosterone
DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) based phs - M5AA

Class II : Does not bind to androgen receptor

AAS:

Dianabol
Anadrol
Winstrol (possibly somewhat mixed)

PH's

Oral Turinabol (Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone) based - Halodrol & Clones
Dianabol (methandrostenolone) based - M1,4ADD, M1T, 1-T, Methyl XT
Winstrol (stanozolol) based - Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno, etc
Furazabol (miotolan) based - Furazadrol etc
Progesterone based - Revolt, Propadrol, Max LMG
Clostebol based - Chlorodrol, Oxyguno
4-AD



Mixed

Testosterone
Probably Oral Turinabol, but I haven't done adequate trials with it.





. Now, here is the ratio anabolic / androgenic of compounds :


Compound:------------------------------Androgenic------Anabolic

1-Testosterone--------------------------100------200
Anabolicum Vister(Quinbolone)(oral Boldenone)--50------100
Anadrol 50(Oxymetholone)-------------45------320
Anadur(Nandrolone Hexyloxyphenylpropionate)--37-----125
Anatrofin(Stenbolone Acetate)---------107-144-----267-332
Anavar(Oxandrolone)-------------------24------322-630
Andractim(Dihydrotestosteron)--------30-260-----60-220
Andriol(Testosterone Undecanoate)----100------100
Androderm(Testosterone)---------------100------100
Androgel(Testosterone)------------------100------100
Boldabol(Boldenone Acetate)------------50------100
Cheque Drops(Mibolerone)--------------1,800------4,100
Danocrine(Danazol)----------------------37------125
Deca-Durabolin(Nandrolone Decanoate)--37------125
Deposterona(Testosterone Blend)-------100------100
Dianabol(Methandrostenolone)-----------40-60------90-210
Dimethyltrienolone------------------------10,000+-----10,000+
Dinandrol(Nandrolone Blend)------------37------125
Durabolin(NPP)----------------------------37------125
Dynabol(Nandrolone Cypionate)---------37------125
Equipoise(Boldenone Undecylenate)-----50------100
Esiclene(Formebolone)-------------------No Data Available
Genabol(Norbolethone)-------------------17------350
Halotestin(Fluoxymesterone)------------850------1,900
Hydroxytestosterone---------------------25------65
Laurabolin(Nandrolone Laurate)---------37------125
Madol(Desoxymethyltestosterone )------187------1,200
Masteron(Drostanolone Propionate)-----25-40------62-130
Megagrisevit-Mono(Clostebol Acetate)--25------46
MENT(Methylnortestosterone Acetate)-------650------2,300
Mestanolone--------------------------------78-254------107
Methandriol(Mythelandrostenedi ol)-------30-60------20-60
Methyl-1-Testosterone---------------------100-220------910-1,600
Methyldienolone----------------------------200-300------1,000
Methylhydroxynandrolone(MHN)----------281------1304
Methyltestosterone-------------------------94-130------115-150
Metribolone(Methyltrienolone)-------------6,000-7,000------12,000-30,000
Miotolan(Furazabol)-------------------------73-94------270-330
Myagen(Bolasterone)-----------------------300------575
Nilevar(Norethandrolone)------------------22-55------100-200
Omnadren(Testosterone Blend)-----------100------100
Orabolin(Ethylestrenol)--------------------20-400------200-400
Oral Turinabol------------------------------None------100+
Oranabol(Oxymesterone)------------------50------330
Orgasteron(Normethandrolone)-----------325-580------110-125
Parabolan(Tren Hexahydrobenzycarbonate)-500------500
Primobolan(Methenolone Acetate)----------44-57------88
Primobolan Depot(Methenolone Enanthate)-44-57------88
Prostanozol------------------------------------n/a------n/a
Protabol(Thiomesterone)--------------------61------456
Proviron(Mesterolone)-----------------------30-40------100-150
Sanabolicum(Nandrolone Cyclohexylpropionate)-37------125
Steranabol Ritardo(Oxabolone Cypionate)--20-60------50-90
Superdrol(Methyldrostanolone)-------------20------400
Sustanon 100 & 250--------------------------100------100
Synovex(Testosterone Propionate & Estradiol)-100------100
Test 400---------------------------------------100------100
Test Enanthate/Cypionate/Propionate/Susp & Blends-100------100
THG(Tetrahydrogestrinone)-------------------No Data Available
Tren Acetate/Enanthate & Blends------------500------500
Winstrol(Stanozolol)---------------------------30------320


My problem is now :

1) Would it be best to stack two compounds that have the highest ratio anabolic / androgenic and are from different class ? (both of the compound are very high anabolic and low androgenic, one is Class I and one is Class II)

2) Or is it best to stack two compounds that would lead to the best androgenic / anabolic balance and are from different class ? (one which is really androgenic, and one which is really anabolic).



PS : I am not the one who "invented" the class at all or the ratio, I've just found that in various website.

[DanB]

Can we have your stats first please?

[pocketboy]

Well, it is not really about making a "stack" for myself precisely, it is just to understand the concept for future cycle or to inspire others that might not understand how to get synergy.

I am 23 years old, 85kg, 10.2% body fat. I did few cycles, the first one was Test-E, Deca-Durabolin, Anavar, dianabol, Arimidex-E; Clen and T3. Low dose, but great results. Problem is, i don't really know which one kicked in and which one did not.

As I don't really want to pack "way more" muscle, (i'm not into extreme bodybuilding, just want to be fit). My aim now is to try to get below 8% fat and maybe add 1kg muscles. It is not "hard to reach" in my opinion. The problem is that I have some really stressful exams, or internship, and travel period, during which I can't train or eat healthy. That is when I do a mild, oral only cycle. I did a 10mg superdrol cycle and had amazing results.

Right now I have quite a lot of compound in stock, and just try to think what could I use for my next cycle. I might get my hands on some Anavar soon but also look some other roids profile to see if there are some that might be interesting. I have plenty of Dbol, superdrol, Epistane at hand. Moreover, I speak decent chinese and lived there for awhile and have some neat source for dirt cheap, and they have almost everything available.

That is why i am also asking here which one of the hypothesis is the best (1 class I high anabolics + 1 class II high anabolics or 1 class I high androgenics + 1 class II high anabolics).

[DanB]

Well, it is not really about making a "stack" for myself precisely, it is just to understand the concept for future cycle or to inspire others that might not understand how to get synergy.

I am 23 years old, 85kg, 10.2% body fat. I did few cycles, the first one was Test-E, Deca-Durabolin, Anavar, dianabol, Arimidex-E; Clen and T3. Low dose, but great results. Problem is, i don't really know which one kicked in and which one did not.

As I don't really want to pack "way more" muscle, (i'm not into extreme bodybuilding, just want to be fit). My aim now is to try to get below 8% fat and maybe add 1kg muscles. It is not "hard to reach" in my opinion. The problem is that I have some really stressful exams, or internship, and travel period, during which I can't train or eat healthy. That is when I do a mild, oral only cycle. I did a 10mg superdrol cycle and had amazing results.

Right now I have quite a lot of compound in stock, and just try to think what could I use for my next cycle. I might get my hands on some Anavar soon but also look some other roids profile to see if there are some that might be interesting. I have plenty of Dbol, superdrol, Epistane at hand. Moreover, I speak decent chinese and lived there for awhile and have some neat source for dirt cheap, and they have almost everything available.

That is why i am also asking here which one of the hypothesis is the best (1 class I high anabolics + 1 class II high anabolics or 1 class I high androgenics + 1 class II high anabolics).

ok so generally the concess on this forum is that you should be 25 to cycle, but that ship has sailed so i'll give you my opinion, I highlighted your first cycle because this is why we generally advise test only as a first cycle, you said yourself you didnt know what kicked in, if you got sides you wouldnt of known what caused them but you got lucky that time. personally if i had your goals I would run a simple 8 week test prop cycle, you can add all the elaborate compounds you like but at end of day its your training and diet which will play biggest factor in determing your results, you do realise that 8 - 10% b/f dosnt mean your ''fit'' right, to me fit means cardiovascular ability, his ''hypothesis'' while it looks good on paper and yes prob has studys to back it up but in real world it dosnt work like that, I would be careful broadcasting what you have and can obtain because some may interpret it as you have these goods available for sale (im not saying this is the case but sometimes its better to keep some things to yourself )

[DanB]

what pct did you run for first cycle as a matter of interest?

[DanB]

Well, it is not really about making a "stack" for myself precisely, it is just to understand the concept for future cycle or to inspire others that might not understand how to get synergy.

I am 23 years old, 85kg, 10.2% body fat. I did few cycles, the first one was Test-E, Deca-Durabolin, Anavar, dianabol, Arimidex-E; Clen and T3. Low dose, but great results. Problem is, i don't really know which one kicked in and which one did not.

As I don't really want to pack "way more" muscle, (i'm not into extreme bodybuilding, just want to be fit). My aim now is to try to get below 8% fat and maybe add 1kg muscles. It is not "hard to reach" in my opinion. The problem is that I have some really stressful exams, or internship, and travel period, during which I can't train or eat healthy. That is when I do a mild, oral only cycle. I did a 10mg superdrol cycle and had amazing results.

Right now I have quite a lot of compound in stock, and just try to think what could I use for my next cycle. I might get my hands on some Anavar soon but also look some other roids profile to see if there are some that might be interesting. I have plenty of Dbol, superdrol, Epistane at hand. Moreover, I speak decent chinese and lived there for awhile and have some neat source for dirt cheap, and they have almost everything available.

That is why i am also asking here which one of the hypothesis is the best (1 class I high anabolics + 1 class II high anabolics or 1 class I high androgenics + 1 class II high anabolics).

This is a poor thing to say as it is very misleading, both the statement and study, a newbie could see this and think hmmmm this says that tren is 5 times stronger than test and halo is somewhere between 10-18 times stronger, I dont need research I have it here in front of me, I think i'll run a 12 week halo/tren cycle. . . . . while it is good to post studys and the like, and I encourage you to continue doing so, just try remember that everyone needs to do their own research and decide for themselves

[jimmyinkedup]

Forget the "classification" - it is full of misinformation.
Also the A/A ratios are very misleading when it comes to practical real life application.
As DanB said - forget this - start reading up here on cycles..
It may be prudent at this time to reevaluate - get training and diet on point - read up on PROPER cycles and approach your next one as if it was your first.

[pocketboy]

I don't sale at all, I just say that I'm not "limited" to the compounds I have right now, but I can order some, so if there is advice that lead me to steroids I don't have yet, I can buy some.

When I said my "first cycle" it was more about the fact that my first cycles where really mild and oral only. I did Epistane, Dbol, PheraPlex (which I hated so i stopped and PCT before the end).

People say a lot of things, some are good advices, some are not. My post was to have answer about educated people on that topic, it was not even specially in order to "plan MY cycle", but to understand how to get the best synergy.

I also tend to think that more than 50% people on the forums are just telling things that they read or heard from others, and instantly it became their own opinion. They didn't take the time to even do their research, they just copied. Also, nobody is exactly the same, some people told me "oral only cycle is crap". I had really good result with just 10mg M-drol in the morning, while Epistane didn't do much for me and PheraPlex was a nightmare.

And right now, pinning is myself is not an option i'd consider. and if i did, i'd go with Tren (which seems nice to shred fat while adding some strenght and lean mass)


I really thank you deeply for your advice, and i'm sorry about my mistakes (i'm not native english speaking person), on the "fit". I meant maybe "not much fat", but also I do run a lot (I'm a soccer enthusiast).
Would you mind to drop "my case" and that we all focus on the "theory" that i'm trying to understand : How is the best synergy reached ? From what process ?

Thanks again (i don't want to offense, it's just i'm not really willing to discuss about me on this topic)

[pocketboy]

Thanks Jimmy for that answer (I didn't have the chance to read it before my last post).


So that was the kind of "information" I needed, to see if those hypothesis, classes, synergy etc was REAL LIFE situations or just strictly "sciences fictions".


Like I said in the last post, I think that some "chronical" advices are also misleading, at least, my body reacted the opposite.

So many time I've heard "Superdrol is strictly bulking", I don't know if anyone tried low dose everyday for 6weeks, but you can really go low calories and look fantastic on it.

My problem is just that if I intend to do a cycle, it would be impossible for me to pin myself, so it would be strictly oral.

Anyway, when I'll do MY cycle i'll do more homework, i was just gathering real life info on those "ratios" and stuff.