T400 and Dball

[Deen54]

41 yr old
training since 16yrs old off and on... last 6 years training 3-4 times per week.
bf- 13%
5 foot 6

goal - to gain 10-15 lbs... quality!


Ok folks!! I am ready to start another cycle. I went 6 months with no test before. I was on juice for a good 8 months. I came off for a month now.
I got no gyno..actually my left nipple was itchy but it went away after two days. My balls i felt kicked in last night. I got back erections thru the night.
I have been on for over a year before never do any pct...never have. But i don't advise this. I'm old school. Lucky for me i only dropped 2 lbs.
But i made significant body composition changes. Which i love.

But i doing this different now... I am going to add test400 (100enth, 100cyp, 200deconate) and 40 mg dball per day for 8 weeks.

My question is do you think i should shoot the test400 once a week at 400mg... or do 200mg every 5 days. equates to every 10 days (400mg)
Would it matter much in gain?

[jasc]

Are you on TRT?

As a good rule of thumb, Time on cycle + pct = time off.

I'd split the 400 in to 2 shots, 1 every 3.5 days. More frequent injections = more stable levels.

Dbol for 8 weeks? May be hell on your liver. 6 weeks is usually a max. You may want to add in some liver support.

[Deen54]

ok.. i could add in liv 52

so what is your reasoning behind...splitting the shot in 2? the cyp and enth ester has a half life of 10-12 days.. so as long as u shoot before then..you should be back at 100 %. that is according to half life..

[Deen54]

and no I'm not on TRT...i'm trying to build muscle. 400mg of test a week.

so why is 200mg first shot and 200mg again 3.5 days better than 400mg/ week? would it not be the same thing considering the half life is 10-12 days.?

[stpete]

So, what was your last cycle? And you were on for a year? And you've been off for a month? Is this correct?

[songdog]

Not busting on you but you really dont sound like you know wat you are doing.I didnt see anything about PCT or running a AI.You should do some research before you get yourself in trouble.

[gixxerboy1]

your wasting your time with Dean. Look at all his old posts. He doesnt listen

[BBrian]

You cycled for 8 months and a year straight without an AI or PCT? Have you ever burdened yourself to research clinical studies at all, or do you simply not care about the shape your body will be in in future years?

As for why to shoot more frequently in lower doses, the ester does not matter, this is still more effective because it will promise to lessen the times when your blood plasma levels of testosterone will take a dive, which means that you will be in a more balanced anabolic state throughout the cycle. But given your prior reckless cycling habits, I get the feeling that scientific logic is not something you value.

[Deen54]

whatever guys..i got no sides... and i have been on for a year..running different shit...all the steroid hype has you guys worried..there are no life threatening sides..all hype.
dboll, deca, then switch to turinabol...to cut the estro sides... then switch to oral winny.. no test ever... been off juice for 6 weeks.. no gyno.. dropped 2 lbs.

the difference with me is i run low mgs... i don't go crazy... i took out test out of the equation... got good solid gains.. sure not the best...i'm im here for the long haul.
i'm not here to do juice hard and stop... like i said i ain't ever stopping... just stopping long enough to clean the receptors that's it!

now is anyone going to answer the question? stop harrassing me about pct.. and ai..if i need it i will get it... but if i am not coming off ..so no pct needed.

[Deen54]

i've been doing juice since some of you were in your diapers...trust me..i know u know shit.

[gixxerboy1]

i've been doing juice since some of you were in your diapers...trust me..i know u know shit.

and your still smaller then most as i remember. So i really wouldnt be bragging about your success and knowledge. Especially with the basic question you are asking

[DanB]

you do realise that 99% chance you will have low test if not now then in near future and typical sympthoms are limp dick, lethargic, depression, loss of appetite

so you say no need for test but this is the very thing that will cause you to need it in future just to have a normal life?

[Deen54]

dan...yes ... i think i have low test now... so the cure is test... but i'm 41 so it's about time anyway...

oh well..time to inject test... i have a bottle of t400... what is the best way to do it?

i'm going 40mg dbol- 6 weeks
t400 - 400mg once a week 1-10 weeks or 200mg every 3.5 days 1-10 weeks <--- what would be the difference?

that is my question.... what is the difference?

[Deen54]

being smaller that is most genetic... even you....no matter how much juice u take you will never be a ronnie colemen.. so it's all relative... that doesn't determine an individual's potential..
trust me ...people all around me seen the difference from where i was to where i am...so it' s success for me... all relative.

[DanB]

every 3.5 days, standard cycle

your going to be looking at 150-200 mg week for life if you have low test, you realise this dont you?

why not stop and run a pct and then see if test levels come back up naturally

[DanB]

difference is more stable levels in blood and therefor less chance of sides

[BBrian]

i've been doing juice since some of you were in your diapers...trust me..i know u know shit.

I love it when people make this statement. It's no different than taking my 2010 Ford F-150 to a mechanic that stopped learning about engines after the advent of fuel injected engines. Sure they understood mechanical principles decades ago, but their arrogance has prevented them from keeping up with new technology and advances in engineering. No, I don't think you do know your shit. The fact that you "took out test out of the equation" is clear evidence of this.

By the way, we did answer your question, I'm not sure how you missed that. And you shouldn't be running Dbol for 8 weeks, and it doesn't sound like you're planning on running "low mgs". Also nobody said that these were life-threatening sides. Perhaps worse; they are health threatening sides that adversely affect your quality of life.

[Deen54]

yes i came to that realization... unless i can kick my balls back in... but when u reach forty... and then 50.... i think most of the population will have low test anyway...so it doesn't make a difference. I am no going to live my life with low test... screw that shit! I will inject if i have to ...it's just the acne that bothers me...but if i run low it won't be a prob..


well dan...why not stop and run pct... because i am not done with juice... they say you should run pct when u finally are finished once and for all with juice not in between cycles....
but i guess it depends how long you are off for...i'm only off for less than 2 months

you say every 3.5 days...but what is the diff? wouldn't it be easier to shoot once a week?

[Deen54]

ok good answer...i will except it dan..

[Deen54]

acne, testicular atrophy, higher hdl , higher blood pressure.... these sides can be controlled... some of them anyway.
8 weeks for dball is nothing.... last time i ran it for four months.... but at only 25 mgs.. then the gyno sides came and i jumped on turinabol and it went away in less then a week.
liver tests all good...my blood pressure 120/69 now

[BBrian]

yes i came to that realization... unless i can kick my balls back in... but when u reach forty... and then 50.... i think most of the population will have low test anyway...so it doesn't make a difference. I am no going to live my life with low test... screw that shit! I will inject if i have to ...it's just the acne that bothers me...but if i run low it won't be a prob..


well dan...why not stop and run pct... because i am not done with juice... they say you should run pct when u finally are finished once and for all with juice not in between cycles....
but i guess it depends how long you are off for...i'm only off for less than 2 months

you say every 3.5 days...but what is the diff? wouldn't it be easier to shoot once a week?

No, definitely not. The norm is time on cycle + pct should be equal to time off. So if you do a ten week cycle and 4 week pct, you should take 14 weeks off, then cycle again. This basic equation is designed to ensure continual healthy function of our sexual organs. You spend the 14 weeks off practicing a diet and exercise regimen geared towards maintaining the gains you made on-cycle and keeping your joints and muscles strong enough to handle the next cycle. This sort of lifestyle also helps to prevent injuries from overtraining, injuries easily obtained from the kind of weight lifting we can do while on cycle indefinitely.

[Deen54]

according to this i will be off for a year. lol

[BBrian]

according to this i will be off for a year. lol

Yeah, well your case is unique. If I were in your shoes I would probably just pretend that I were starting from scratch, do a cycle that makes the most sense, pct, then take time off to see how my gonads do at this point. You will be able to determine at that point whether or not you've done damage to your HPTA and go from there.

I would recommend just doing a really strong PCT at this point, but I know you're going to do a cycle, so no sense in typing for my own benefit.

[Deen54]

well for this month..i was taking new zealand bovine testicles, fish oils, zinc, tribulus, arginine and yohimbe. I was good until my third week in..i was limp and my testicles
shrunk.. this is being off...but the fourth week...i got erections back at night and testicles seem to be back to normal..although i can tell my test levels are low.. nothing upsets me.
but this week i started getting a little more ticked off and extra energy in the gym...so i think i am coming back...i think i will wait another week or two before i start back..
but every week i seem to drop at least 1 pound...so can't wait too long.

[Sgt. Hartman]

whatever guys..i got no sides... and i have been on for a year..running different shit...all the steroid hype has you guys worried..there are no life threatening sides..all hype.
dboll, deca, then switch to turinabol...to cut the estro sides... then switch to oral winny.. no test ever... been off juice for 6 weeks.. no gyno.. dropped 2 lbs.

the difference with me is i run low mgs... i don't go crazy... i took out test out of the equation... got good solid gains.. sure not the best...i'm im here for the long haul.
i'm not here to do juice hard and stop... like i said i ain't ever stopping... just stopping long enough to clean the receptors that's it!

now is anyone going to answer the question? stop harrassing me about pct.. and ai..if i need it i will get it... but if i am not coming off ..so no pct needed.

41 yr old
training since 16yrs old off and on... last 6 years training 3-4 times per week.
bf- 13%
5 foot 6

goal - to gain 10-15 lbs... quality!


Ok folks!! I am ready to start another cycle. I went 6 months with no test before. I was on juice for a good 8 months. I came off for a month now.
I got no gyno..actually my left nipple was itchy but it went away after two days. My balls i felt kicked in last night. I got back erections thru the night.
I have been on for over a year before never do any pct...never have. But i don't advise this. I'm old school. Lucky for me i only dropped 2 lbs.
But i made significant body composition changes. Which i love.

But i doing this different now... I am going to add test400 (100enth, 100cyp, 200deconate) and 40 mg dball per day for 8 weeks.

My question is do you think i should shoot the test400 once a week at 400mg... or do 200mg every 5 days. equates to every 10 days (400mg)
Would it matter much in gain?

acne, testicular atrophy, higher hdl , higher blood pressure.... these sides can be controlled... some of them anyway.
8 weeks for dball is nothing.... last time i ran it for four months.... but at only 25 mgs.. then the gyno sides came and i jumped on turinabol and it went away in less then a week.
liver tests all good...my blood pressure 120/69 now

well for this month..i was taking new zealand bovine testicles, fish oils, zinc, tribulus, arginine and yohimbe. I was good until my third week in..i was limp and my testicles
shrunk.. this is being off...but the fourth week...i got erections back at night and testicles seem to be back to normal..although i can tell my test levels are low.. nothing upsets me.
but this week i started getting a little more ticked off and extra energy in the gym...so i think i am coming back...i think i will wait another week or two before i start back..
but every week i seem to drop at least 1 pound...so can't wait too long.

Are you so oblivious that you don't see how you contradict yourself? So to you a limp dick, atrophied testicles, and the onset of gyno = no sides? Your logic and reasoning is that of a toddler.

I guess to you "old school" means ignoring sound reasoning and medical facts. I would say you are ignorant but that would imply that you don't know or understand so I guess a better term would be completely dense or obtuse. You're exactly the type of person that give AAS and responsible users of AAS a bad rep.

When was the last time you had your BP, lipid profile, or liver values checked? Probably not recently as you're "old school" and all that matters is how you feel. Just keep pumping your body full of androgens and you'll be fine.

To answer your question, pinning your T400 twice a week or every 5 days would both be fine.

[Deen54]

i guess you don't read.. i had blood work done... everything has normal values.. i have no sides effects...no gyno whatsoever.. did you miss that?
i got the blood work done 1 month after my last oral winstrol tab.. which was two weeks ago...i got my results last wednesday. All normal, liver, cholesterol, bp, test, etc..
the testicular atrophy came back to normal size after week 3. The body did it on it's own.

so why is it i need pct again?

[gixxerboy1]

i guess you don't read.. i had blood work done... everything has normal values.. i have no sides effects...no gyno whatsoever.. did you miss that?
i got the blood work done 1 month after my last oral winstrol tab.. which was two weeks ago...i got my results last wednesday. All normal, liver, cholesterol, bp, test, etc..
the testicular atrophy came back to normal size after week 3. The body did it on it's own.

so why is it i need pct again?

your right. Your are the a healthy superb specimen that we all want to be like

[BBrian]

your right. Your are the a healthy superb specimen that we all want to be like

Will someone just promote this guy already? We need more people advocating the dismissal of scientific studies with steroid use.

[--->>405<<---]

i tell u dean.. for a guy whos done so much steriods ud think u wouldnt have to come here to ask such an elementary question...

[hankdiesel]

acne, testicular atrophy, higher hdl , higher blood pressure.... these sides can be controlled... some of them anyway.
8 weeks for dball is nothing.... last time i ran it for four months.... but at only 25 mgs.. then the gyno sides came and i jumped on turinabol and it went away in less then a week.
liver tests all good...my blood pressure 120/69 now

"HIGHER hdl"...........ha ha. That one is classic. Out of all the crap that came out of your mouth this one is the best! And I love the dboll, sorry "dball" for 4 months. Liver test was good huh

[Deen54]

thank you... I will start in another week.. I will post my start date and results...

T400- 1- 10weeks 200mg 2x week every 3.5 days
dball- 6 weeks 40mg
start bridge turinabol 40 mg 6 - 11 weeks.
t400 week 11- cruise at 200mg week
bring dboll back in 8 weeks off last turinabol tab

arimidex on hand

this is the way i have it planned out..but it may change...but week 1-10 won't change.

[FONZY007]

being smaller that is most genetic... even you....no matter how much juice u take you will never be a ronnie colemen.. so it's all relative... that doesn't determine an individual's potential..
trust me ...people all around me seen the difference from where i was to where i am...so it' s success for me... all relative.

Ok if I'm correct Jay Cutler was like 175lbs before he started bodybuilding and contest he is what 260+ lbs

So genetically he should be smaller right? I'm going on what you are saying...

[Deen54]

sure he started smaller but his genes was obviously capable of more...you have to take into account like bone mass etc... these body builders like that make up 1 per cent
of the population. These guys are close to 300lbs of muscle with 2 per cent bodyfat.
Look at the biggest guy in the gym he is not capable of ever being a champion like these guys..this is where it boils down to genetics, proper diet, training, sleep etc.. but genetics
is what will make the champ the champ.

[gixxerboy1]

sure he started smaller but his genes was obviously capable of more...you have to take into account like bone mass etc... these body builders like that make up 1 per cent
of the population. These guys are close to 300lbs of muscle with 2 per cent bodyfat.
Look at the biggest guy in the gym he is not capable of ever being a champion like these guys..this is where it boils down to genetics, proper diet, training, sleep etc.. but genetics
is what will make the champ the champ.

what are you after a year long cycle. 165?

[j4ever41]

whatever guys..i got no sides... and i have been on for a year..running different shit...all the steroid hype has you guys worried..there are no life threatening sides..all hype.
dboll, deca, then switch to turinabol...to cut the estro sides... then switch to oral winny.. no test ever... been off juice for 6 weeks.. no gyno.. dropped 2 lbs.

the difference with me is i run low mgs... i don't go crazy... i took out test out of the equation... got good solid gains.. sure not the best...i'm im here for the long haul.
i'm not here to do juice hard and stop... like i said i ain't ever stopping... just stopping long enough to clean the receptors that's it!

now is anyone going to answer the question? stop harrassing me about pct.. and ai..if i need it i will get it... but if i am not coming off ..so no pct needed.

do you really believe that

[Deen54]

I really do believe there are no life threatening side effects. This is just media hype based on no science. Now there will always be side effects but i'm
talking about life threatening. So long as you are healthy. What i mean by that is your blood pressure, cholesterol must be in order before you do steroids.
Steroids don't make unhealthy people healthy it makes healthy people healthier. It comes down to proper diet, nutrition and exercise, sleep etc.
Whenever the media talk about roids they refer to roid rage, steroid abuse. Then they associate a death behind it like lyle alzado. There is no scientific
document that links his death to steroids.
What we are talking about his steroids without the abuse. If you abuse anything, you can die. Even drinking too much water will kill you. Abuse is deadly.

And I did gain the 165lbs but my face got bloated. I was big but i looked like crap. I dropped off the weight when i switched to winny and turinabol..I like
the look at 155lbs. Basically I dropped my body fat levels down to 11 per cent.

But my new cycle will put more weight back on. i want the 165lbs again but without the bloat. I am going to try to go past 165lbs...this time and then when i cut down...cut down to 165 and hold. I have a very fast metabolism. Being off juice 6 weeks i already dropped 3 lbs.

The whole goal for me is not just adding weight but to keep my body fat around 11% while putting on the weight. No point gaining weight and my body fat is going up as well.

[gixxerboy1]

As you put it. You have been using steroids as long as some members have been out of diapers. You just got off a year long cycle and are @ 155lbs. Great job

[verino]

I know a 5'6 person at 150lbs and does not work out and is skinny..But you on the other hand have been on juice for 20 plus years and weigh 5lbs heavier than my friend who has never touched a weight in his life. Man take some advice from the people here who are trying to help you. You are a very ignorant and non educated person when it comes to steroids. If you have been on juice for this long wouldn’t you think that you would not have to ask how many times a week to inject test? Take the advice given, you need it.

[Deen54]

yeah but ..i look impressive. I don't look 155lbs..ppl say i look like 180lbs... that's the difference.
It also shows me you guys education level to judge by weight. You guys know shit. If you go by weight alone.. Give up this site to the more educated.

[Deen54]

i can post a pic..not at 155lbs but at 150 lbs...and i don't look skinny.