5th and 6th cycle gone wrong???

[da11]

5th cycle was 8 weeks of test prop at about 400mg/week with 175mg/week of fina tren. Had to use some of the adex and caber I had. Did HCG last 3 weeks with 4 weeks nolva pct.

About 4 weeks after pct I got bad acne on my shoulders and back. Mostly spots on my back and bumps on my shoulders. It all went away when I started my next cycle which was right at
the 8 week off mark.

I started my 6th cycle of 10 weeks175mg/week test prop and 175mg/week fina tren. Had some nip bumps after 2 weeks so I added aromasin for the rest of my cycle and was fine. Did my hcg/nolva pct for 1 month which is what I have done before on all my previous cycles with about 2 weeks or aromasin too.

As soon as pct was over I started breaking out on shoulders and back again with major nipple soreness. After about 3 weeks the lumps were about as big as a peanut....maybe a little smaller. Pea size?? Anyway they were getting sore and big quick. I took about 3-4 weeks of letro 2.5mg eod and they shrunk again but still had acne spots. So i got on 20mg clomid ed and 1000mg hcg for three more weeks. Lumps went down and acne subsided a bit....still have spots. When I stopped the clomid/hcg for 2 weeks I started getting acne and soreness again. So what did I do.....round 2 of clomid/hcg. I just finished and am out of everything so I'm looking for answers here. Its been 4 months since last tren/test injection.

Other than the nipple soreness and growth and acne I "feel" fine. Libido is normal, etc.

Any ideas?

[Razor]

You should not have done HCG and PCT right next to each other you already desensitized you LH and legig eggs with the HCG, then starting the PCT
This was absolute the wrong way. You should have run HCG 2 weeks on 2 weeks off starting 2 week of cycle 250-350iu 3Xweek
Having at least 2 weeks off b4 you start PCT. HCG is not PCT, its OCT. Your breaking out because your hormones are all out of wack and have
no clue what to do. SO now you have gyno and acne.
Start Liqidex ASAP and maybe run it with some proviron/primo for 6 weeks. Then PCT with torm and nova for 4 weeks
What is the size of your testicles? As for the gyno a dex or letro will help
Is your hair falling out too? It has to be
Do not start Clomid again, absolutely not, get torem or Raloxifene with nova
But don't run till after proviron and primo, this will get you feeling better for you
You might need to play with the Adex, as primo and proviron dont really convert, and might not need to stay on liquidex or aromisin for the whole cycle,
whatever AI you choose you could taper off hopfully when gyno is resolved, but stay on small dose just because swifto said so

[Razor]

If this is over kill someone chime in, but I think a primo/proviron run with a good ai OC and pct w\o HCG would fix you up.
Since its your 6th cycle you could get away with doing another 6-8 IMO of a higher dose of the two.
Call it a PCT after your PCT which should have been an OCT, lol
Whatever you do, dont run anymore HCG for at least a year

[da11]

You should not have done HCG and PCT right next to each other you already desensitized you LH and legig eggs with the HCG, then starting the PCT
This was absolute the wrong way. You should have run HCG 2 weeks on 2 weeks off starting 2 week of cycle 250-350iu 3Xweek
Having at least 2 weeks off b4 you start PCT. HCG is not PCT, its OCT. Your breaking out because your hormones are all out of wack and have
no clue what to do. SO now you have gyno and acne.
Start Liqidex ASAP and maybe run it with some proviron/primo for 6 weeks. Then PCT with torm and nova for 4 weeks
What is the size of your testicles? As for the gyno a dex or letro will help
Is your hair falling out too? It has to be
Do not start Clomid again, absolutely not, get torem or Raloxifene with nova
But don't run till after proviron and primo, this will get you feeling better for you
You might need to play with the Adex, as primo and proviron dontg really convert, and might not need to stay on liquidex or aromisin,
whatever AI you choose you could taper off hopfully when gyno is resolved, but stay on small dose just because.

Thanks Razr. Helpful advice. Size of my testes are fine and no probs with my hair thankfully.

So just to clarify.....not a good idea to run hcg and clomid for pct? I Was following advice from a veteran buddy of mine that has been cycling for years. I went To him because Nolva was making me sick and depressed.

[da11]

Razor, can I use aromasin in place of liquidex?

So aromasin or liquidex with primo and proviron then torem and Nolva pct?

[Razor]

Thanks Razr. Helpful advice. Size of my testes are fine and no probs with my hair thankfully.

So just to clarify.....not a good idea to run hcg and clomid for pct? I Was following advice from a veteran buddy of mine that has been cycling for years. I went To him because Nolva was making me sick and depressed.

No No No!!! HCG is OTC not PTC. HCG PCT will fck your shit up.
Sorry to say your friend was misinformed or uneducated.
If you dont like nova run torem and Raloxifene or just torem by itself.

I think you should do another 8 weeks proviron and primo though.
Honestly it would not hurt. And you would get hard as fck.
Then do a proper PCT.

[Razor]

Razor, can I use aromasin in place of liquidex?

So aromasin or liquidex with primo and proviron then torem and Nolva pct?

Yes you can run arom or liqidex with them, one or the other a dex start with .25mg 3XWeek armoisan or try 12.5mg 3XWeek,
provided you do it for a few weeks till the soreness goes away. Do not use both, overkill
Proviron and primo do not convert so it might take care of itself, but stay on a lower dose armoisan or liqidex to keep
water weight and the current sides you have down to a minimum. If the acne is killing you and it does not
go away soon get on a low does of accutane
Or try Proactive solutions haha j\k

[da11]

Yes you can run arom or liqidex with them, one or the other a dex start with .25mg 3XWeek armoisand try 12.5mg 3XWeek, provided you do it for a few weeks till the soreness goes away.
Proviron and primo do not convert so it might take care of itself, but stay on a lower dose armoisan or liqidex to keep
water weight and the current sides you have down to a minimum. If the acne is killing you and it does not
go away soon get on a low does of accutane
Or try Proactive solutions haha j\k

Thanks Razr! I will be sure to order an extra bottle of proactive for you

[Razor]

What is your plan? Lets here it for real so we get it right

[da11]

12.5mg Eod aromasin
50mg Ed proviron
300-400 mg / week primo
Above for 6 weeks

Then standard Nolva/ torem dose for pct

I'm worried about the proviron causing hair loss. Can't lose these locks! . Should I be worried if I haven't had problems with test and tren in the past?

[Razor]

Go 8 weeks not 6
If tren and test didnt make it fall out......NOTHING WILL..your lucky
600-800mg of primo, 400 wont do anything since this is gonna be your 7th cycle your gonna need to run higher 600mg, but your going to feel great
And do 100mg on the proviron, you got to realize these are not as strong at lower dosages like test and tren.
Get liquid spiro 5% for hair and 15% minozidil with 5% azelaic ascid and .0025% retinol. This should come compounded.
Also get 2% nizorel, says its for dandruff, its for that and hair loss
Start this ASAP, will cause shedding at first, thats normal. Will block DHT. Might also try Advodart (Dutasteride) .5mg daily.
You will not loose your hair, I promise. Does you moms dad have his hair?
Ive had 3 hair transplants, thats always an option too

BTW stay away from HCG Forever j/k
you can get the 5% spiro on ar-r

[Honkey_Kong]

You could also just get a Hair Alternative Treatment.

[Razor]

Ill show you my pre first second and third pics and post, your not gonna believe what a transformation I did. I look 21 again
I just had my latest transplant last week. Best thing I ever did besides get my ears pierced and break up with that bitch of a gf.
We all take steroids to look good, lets not get on me cause I want my head to look good
Kong I like your new avi!

[Honkey_Kong]

Ill show you my pre first second and third pics and post, your not gonna believe what a transformation I did. I look 21 again
I just had my latest transplant last week. Best thing I ever did besides get my ears pierced and break up with that bitch of a gf.
We all take steroids to look good, lets not get on me cause I want my head to look good
Kong I like your new avi!

It's not a new avi. I'm just upset about yesterday so I got rid of my old one.

Anyways, how long does it take for the transplanted hair to grow in and how much does it cost around?

[Razor]

First was $7500 for 2538 grafts
Second was $5900 for 2200 grafts
Third last week was $4000 for 2018 grafts.
More you go the more they discount. I need to get pics for you guys....unreal worth every penny and more, I would have paid double
They say it takes 12 months for full growth. If your on GH it takes 5 months And they take it from the back, DHT resistant does not fall out due to age or DHT or receding hairline syndrome.

I had III really bad

Now i will have this in 6 months

[Honkey_Kong]

First was $7500 for 2538 grafts
Second was $5900 for 2200 grafts
Third last week was $4000 for 2018 grafts.
More you go the more they discount. I need to get pics for you guys....unreal worth every penny and more, I would have paid double
They say it takes 12 months for full growth. If your on GH it takes 5 months

How much hair would you say 2500 grafts is? Like how much would that cover about?

[Razor]

DA Im stoked for you man, your gonna feel like a MILLION BUCKAROOS!!!! That is some good shit your gonna be taking and gonna be hard as fck!!
Hell if you got the dough throw in Anavar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!BITCHES

[Honkey_Kong]

Razr, you think the beginnings of IV A is really treatable?

[da11]

DA Im stoked for you man, your gonna feel like a MILLION BUCKAROOS!!!! That is some good shit your gonna be taking and gonna be hard as fck!!
Hell if you got the dough throw in Anavar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!BITCHES

Thanks again Razr…I'm pumped too….been stressin for a while about this.

Do you think this cycle will help to level me out so I can get back to the test/tren?

btw….I think I might just have to throw in some var for sure.

[lovbyts]

Not to hijack but 18k - 20K for hair??? DAMN I dont know. I'm still waiting for hair cloning.

[xelnaga]

First was $7500 for 2538 grafts
Second was $5900 for 2200 grafts
Third last week was $4000 for 2018 grafts.
More you go the more they discount. I need to get pics for you guys....unreal worth every penny and more, I would have paid double
They say it takes 12 months for full growth. If your on GH it takes 5 months And they take it from the back, DHT resistant does not fall out due to age or DHT or receding hairline syndrome.

I had III really bad

Now i will have this in 6 months

You aint that pretty !

[Razor]

You aint that pretty !

Nope

[Razor]

Thanks again Razr…I'm pumped too….been stressin for a while about this.

Do you think this cycle will help to level me out so I can get back to the test/tren?

btw….I think I might just have to throw in some var for sure.

yes it wil help you get back to test tren.
Also please post all stats right now
This is gonna be one clean cycle. You might even run it for 10 weeks! and with Var im exited for you!!
Let me do some more thinking on how to run it!!

[JP-MAN]

do not agree with the above advice, let alone 20k for hair.
screw all that, dont put ur body thru another 8 weeks of a chemistry experiment.
go get ur bloodwork done, that will tell where ur hormones are..

[havehotasianwife]

do not agree with the above advice, let alone 20k for hair.
screw all that, dont put ur body thru another 8 weeks of a chemistry experiment.
go get ur bloodwork done, that will tell where ur hormones are..

im sure razr with having over 1000 posts. hes got great advice. disregarding the hair stuff, on this thread i concentrated on his views on helping the individual with pct. and he was great and honest.

[JP-MAN]

posts mean nothing. please do not base ur advice around someones post count.

[lovbyts]

posts mean nothing. please do not base ur advice around someones post count.

We are not basing his advice on his post count. My post count is much higher than his but I for one take his advice as being mostly spot on and beneficial, more so than most of mine.

I dont agree with the 20K for hair but if I had an excess of spare cash I might consider it.

As for his advice on the above I think it's pretty accurate or at least beneficial but yes blood work is always the best choice and most accurate as I'm sure Razr would agree but sometimes we forget to mention it or think it's obvious.

[Honkey_Kong]

We are not basing his advice on his post count. My post count is much higher than his but I for one take his advice as being mostly spot on and beneficial, more so than most of mine.

I dont agree with the 20K for hair but if I had an excess of spare cash I might consider it.

As for his advice on the above I think it's pretty accurate or at least beneficial but yes blood work is always the best choice and most accurate as I'm sure Razr would agree but sometimes we forget to mention it or think it's obvious.

I tend to agree with Lovbyts on this. If I had an extra 20 grand to piss away, I'd be spending it on other stuff before hair. Still, it's nice to know how much it costs (they always leave that part out in the Bosley commercials).

[da11]

Does anyone else have an opinion on this protocol for me getting back to "normal"….if possible.

I've been researching/looking more into proviron and thinking about getting back on a cycle before I've fully recovered and I don't understand fully how this will help me stabilize the hormones.

anyone care to elaborate? Razr?

Thanks!

[BBrian]

I was wondering how much that hair treatment cost. No wonder they don't advertise it up front

Anyway, that is one seriously messy PCT protocol and I'm just thankful that I've never experienced anything like it, because I would be very leery about all of that. But don't take that comment to heart, because quite frankly I don't comprehend everything that has been recommended. I've always been able to keep it simple. I will say this however: HCG for PCT is not a giant taboo, and I know this to be fact. I have personally taken HCG for PCT several times, with no other compounds (or estro rebound), and with 100% recovery - and damn quick at that. In fact HCG was originally intended to be used in this fashion, it just so happens that we have found a more efficient protocol (taking on-cycle) for the use of HCG. This is by no means intended to function as a recommendation for the OP, I just wanted to clear up that one statement.

[Razor]

Does anyone else have an opinion on this protocol for me getting back to "normal"….if possible.

I've been researching/looking more into proviron and thinking about getting back on a cycle before I've fully recovered and I don't understand fully how this will help me stabilize the hormones.

anyone care to elaborate? Razr?

Thanks!

Been out for a while in the hospital, but this is the first post I wanted to come check up on. I knew there would be one or two people opposed to what I said
But I gave you the best drugs and the based it off of your problems and I told you to take the safest, cleanest roids on the market today.
Based off of your problems I knew you could run some clean drugs, and benefit greatly from them.
Get your blood work done off coarse, sorry I didn't rec this at first.
Prov will help with the gyno it reduces estrogenic properties by blocking estrogen receptor sites, it still is not as effect as a anti estrogen such as aromisan or liqidex
var will help with hardness and strength gains, to get you ready for your next tren, test and the primo.....well its fcking PRIMO!!
Then you PCT properly with torem and nova and you run an ai OCT like liqidex or aromisan

[Razor]

We are not basing his advice on his post count. My post count is much higher than his but I for one take his advice as being mostly spot on and beneficial, more so than most of mine.

I dont agree with the 20K for hair but if I had an excess of spare cash I might consider it.

As for his advice on the above I think it's pretty accurate or at least beneficial but yes blood work is always the best choice and most accurate as I'm sure Razr would agree but sometimes we forget to mention it or think it's obvious.

Ill do another one if I have too, best money I ever spent. Thanks for you kind words

[da11]

Been out for a while in the hospital, but this is the first post I wanted to come check up on. I knew there would be one or two people opposed to what I said
But I gave you the best drugs and the based it off of your problems and I told you to take the safest, cleanest roids on the market today.
Based off of your problems I knew you could run some clean drugs, and benefit greatly from them.
Get your blood work done off coarse, sorry I didn't rec this at first.
Prov will help with the gyno it reduces estrogenic properties by blocking estrogen receptor sites, it still is not as effect as a anti estrogen such as aromisan or liqidex
var will help with hardness and strength gains, to get you ready for your next tren, test and the primo.....well its fcking PRIMO!!
Then you PCT properly with torem and nova and you run an ai OCT like liqidex or aromisan

Sorry to hear you were in the hospital.....hope ur doing good now.

I'm still skeptical that the proviron will help since 3 weeks of letro did nothing. Or would it be the combo of that regimen and pct that makes it click?

I know I would sacrifice some of my progress but would I be better off just taking time off gear?

[Razor]

Sorry to hear you were in the hospital.....hope ur doing good now.

I'm still skeptical that the proviron will help since 3 weeks of letro did nothing. Or would it be the combo of that regimen and pct that makes it click?

I know I would sacrifice some of my progress but would I be better off just taking time off gear?

Im not saying the prov is going to take gyno away, just read what I said, I said its not as effective as a anti estrogen. But I think that plus a AI OCT will get rid of it.
If you dont want to go on again then run a good PCT as outlined in the PCT foum. If you dont want to sacrifice you gains, go on cycle like I said with how I outlined it.
thanks for good thoughts about my hospital stay, honestly I was thinking about this thread while i was in and exited to get back and help you out cause I know your hurting in a way.

[da11]

Im not saying the prov is going to take gyno away, just read what I said, I said its not as effective as a anti estrogen. But I think that plus a AI OCT will get rid of it.
If you dont want to go on again then run a good PCT as outlined in the PCT foum. If you dont want to sacrifice you gains, go on cycle like I said with how I outlined it.
thanks for good thoughts about my hospital stay, honestly I was thinking about this thread while i was in and exited to get back and help you out cause I know your hurting in a way.

Thanks for the thoughts as well. Your right, I'm hurting. Wanna be on so bad, but don't want to risk my health. 38yrs old with a great wife and 5 amazing kids.

I was making some great progress too. Damn! I have 8 days left on clomid….tapered off to 10mg/day and I feel pretty good as far as gyno goes. I know its gonna come back once I stop though. Hopefully I'll get to get back on soon.

[Razor]

Go on cycle, its the cleanest cycle you can run. If you want run the primo at 500mg a week instead of 600-800 like I said b4 However with primo it takes higher dosages to notice, but if you extend the cycle to 10 weeks instead of 8 weeks I would go lower at 500-600 or if shorter go to 800mg on primo.
As far as the prov and var, they speak for themselves. I dont want to see you hurting and I feel your pain. With the HCG and the AI that I suggested you, when was the last shot of HCG. If it has been a few weeks you might not be de sensitized any more. If its been a week, start the cycle and dont start the HCG OCT until the 2-3 week and run it for 2 weeks at 250iu 3X a week.
The var is going to give you your strength back and get your ready to transition to tren/test like you want too. I think the prov will bring it all together, a good inbetween the primo and var..like a base almost. not as good as test, but stay away from test on this one.
Finish the clomid, a good buddy of mine just did a 2 week PCT and went back on to a test susp/sust cycle and is doing just fine, I know you will too.

[da11]

Go on cycle, its the cleanest cycle you can run. If you want run the primo at 500mg a week instead of 600-800 like I said b4 However with primo it takes higher dosages to notice, but if you extend the cycle to 10 weeks instead of 8 weeks I would go lower at 500-600 or if shorter go to 800mg on primo.
As far as the prov and var, they speak for themselves. I dont want to see you hurting and I feel your pain. With the HCG and the AI that I suggested you, when was the last shot of HCG. If it has been a few weeks you might not be de sensitized any more. If its been a week, start the cycle and dont start the HCG OCT until the 2-3 week and run it for 2 weeks at 250iu 3X a week.
The var is going to give you your strength back and get your ready to transition to tren/test like you want too. I think the prov will bring it all together, a good inbetween the primo and var..like a base almost. not as good as test, but stay away from test on this one.
Finish the clomid, a good buddy of mine just did a 2 week PCT and went back on to a test susp/sust cycle and is doing just fine, I know you will too.

Awesome advice! Thanks. I will repost once I have all my gear. I'm still waiting on some aromasin and nolva that was supposedly delivered on Nov 17. Looks like
I need to do some research so I can put in an order.

[Razor]

Are you going to run nova and torem for PCT?

[da11]

If I can find some tore that doesn't take 8 weeks to arrive then I would probably be better off. I've never tried it. Only nolva and clomid.
Tried both adex and aromasin with good results. Nolva makes me irritable and depressed big time.

[Razor]

ok scratch the nova for some Raloxifene