My first cycle.. need some advise

[honda4life]

Ok I have been reading this info and forum for many years already and I APPRECIATE how EVERYONE looks out for the others health in here. TONS of good info.

So I currently have 2 vials of Tren A 100mg/ml and Test P 100mg/ml. Ill be doing one CC of each EOD. I have lots of friends who have all recommended that to me that have been using for anywhere from 6-10 years. However they almost ALL say at this dosage I will see gains for sure but none of them have experienced any GYNO from it... everyones different I guess.

I plan to do this for roughly 9 wks as a first cycle.

(Im AWARE of all the posts claiming not to use tren on first cycle etc)

My plain and simple question is Exactly what do I use for PCT with these 2 products, and when do I start and how long do I use them for? there is SOOO many opinions and options im UBER confused.

Im 32, 215 lbs bout 15% BF.

Also I have a bottle of Clen as well and should I use the clen between cycles? or during?

[Noles12]

Since you are aware of the posts claiming not to use tren on a first cycle, why do you plan on using it? There is reasoning behind what we post. As you said your friends have been using for 6-10 years so tren for them may not be as big of an issue. If you start getting sides how do plan on knowing which compound it is coming from?

Not to mention your math is off if you think two vials will last for 9 weeks. At 1 m eod of each, you wont make it to 6

[honda4life]

Yeah I just happen to have the 2 vials right now but I can grab it anytime I need to. 9 weeks will be 3 bottles. :-) but thanks for correcting my math. lol But overall the question was what PCT products will I likely need?

[honda4life]

And I think I will follow advise and do this as a Test only for 9 weeks. is 1CC EOD overkill?

[gearbox]

You should start measuring in mg and not cc. cc is measuring volume. a basic test only first cycle is about 400-600 of test. and you will need an ai and also pct.

[honda4life]

Well 1CC = 1 ML... My test is 100MG per MLorCC as I stated in the beginning. So ill be injecting 3-4 times a week... coming out to 300-400mg wk. Thats fairly conservative from what ive read isnt it? Maybe I should be doing 150MG per injection then? or 1.5CC?

[MickeyKnox]

dump the tren. and yeah, 100mg/ml is perfect eod but run it for 12 wks. 9 wks is a waste of time if you ask me. test e is along ester and takes time to wind up. you'll find in the 8-9th wk you'll be seeing your best results and will want to continue another two to three wks.

add aromisin 12.5eod to start.

pct
Clomid : 50/50/50/25
Nolva: 40/40/20/20
DAA (test booster)

[gixxerboy1]

dump the tren. and yeah, 100mg/ml is perfect eod but run it for 12 wks. 9 wks is a waste of time if you ask me. test e is along ester and takes time to wind up. you'll find in the 8-9th wk you'll be seeing your best results and will want to continue another two to three wks.

add aromisin 12.5eod to start.

pct
Clomid : 50/50/50/25
Nolva: 40/40/20/20
DAA (test booster)

9 weeks is fine. Its test prop

[honda4life]

Ok. I appreciate the straight forward answers without people investigating everything about my plans. (which is just concern and I appreciate that) so here's what I'm gonna do.

Drop the tren.

1.25 cc EOD which will put me around 500mg week. I'm gonna do this 12 weeks.

The pct is what confuses me the most cause people are throwing out like 4 diff products. Clomid, Nolva, arimadex, and aromasin. And people are throwing out doses but not specifying if it's per day or per week etc. and do I take ANY of them while on my test cycle? I know people are gonna jump my throat and say DO RESEARCH and I have been!!! But so many opinions and options are confusing the shit outta me. Can someone PLEASE just boldly say take this much of this for this long. Lol.

[MickeyKnox]

9 weeks is fine. Its test prop

oops i missed that. good catch Gixxer!

[tomt45]

100mg eod for your first cycle would be fine. You could up the dose a little to 125 or 150 mg eod. Another idea would be to get some test e and run that at 500mg/week and use the prop at 100mg eod to start the cycle out.

What are you goals from this cycle?

You should get an ai like adex or aromasin to run while on cycle and nolva and clomid for pct.

Im from St. Paul...what gym do you go to?

[tomt45]

Start out with either adex at .25mg eod or aromasin at 12.5 mg eod while on cycle. Start your pct 3 days after you last prop injection. This is what I usually do for pct clomid 100/50/50/50 Nolva 40/40/20/20

[BBrian]

Aromasin and Arimidex are not being suggested for PCT. Those two are to be used DURING your cycle. They are Aromotase Inhibitors, and you really need to study up on AI's and SERMs to understand the differences.

[honda4life]

Thanks guys. Appreciate that!! That's what I wanted to know. So I'll do adex EOD during entire cycle and the then as far as clomid and Nolva I stack both every day correct. And is it 100/40 every day first week then 50/40 ED second week 50/20 ED third week and 50/20 ED 4th week?

[MickeyKnox]

yes. and if you can't locate any dex, try to get aromisin(stane) and run it like i suggested. it's a little bit easier on the body imho.

if you find yourself crying when you hear sad songs, reduce your clomid to 50 in the first wk. lol

[honda4life]

What if I cry during sad songs all the time? Lol is aromasin generally easier to get? I'm assuming nothing in here can be picked up thru local pharmacy.

[BBrian]

What if I cry during sad songs all the time? Lol is aromasin generally easier to get? I'm assuming nothing in here can be picked up thru local pharmacy.

You can find them all at AR-R (top right-hand corner of this site).

[honda4life]

Is arimadex same as adex?

[BBrian]

Is arimadex same as adex?

Yes.

[honda4life]

Thanks BBrian you have been a great help. Appreciated.

[JohnnyVegas]

I know that you have already come up with a plan, but it will benefit you to stop thinking in generalities. This is a very specific thing. You will be injecting 3.5 times per week. If you inject 125mg, you will be at 437.5mg/wk...not "about 500." It is important to know how what you are taking. Same with the other drugs...accuracy is important.

Just trying to help out. You are talking about taking several powerful drugs and rounding, estimating and guessing raise the risks. Things like whether you can get an erection are at stake.

[honda4life]

Appreciate the input man. You think it would be better to go 525mg wk as a first cycle? 32 yrs old 6'0 220 lbs

[BBrian]

Appreciate the input man. You think it would be better to go 525mg wk as a first cycle? 32 yrs old 6'0 220 lbs

It just depends on what you wish to gain. In the 500mg range, more or less testosterone will have a good affect on how much you gain in terms of strength and lean muscle. That being said, 500mg is the typical recommendation for a first cycle and I would just stick with that for the sake of not over-complicating things.

[JohnnyVegas]

^^^ Agreed. Really, this is always just a risk vs. reward thing. As the dose goes up, so do the gains, side effects and risks. You want to get maximum gains with the minimum risk. Either dose will probably serve you well providing you are eating and lifting correctly. This first cycle will teach you a lot about how your body responds, and you can adjust in the future.

I should also mention that while the gains increase with dose, it follows the law of diminishing returns. Double the dose does not give you double the gains, but it could more than double the risks. That is why we want to keep the dose as low as possible while still getting solid gains. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

[BBrian]

^^^ Agreed. Really, this is always just a risk vs. reward thing. As the dose goes up, so do the gains, side effects and risks. You want to get maximum gains with the minimum risk. Either dose will probably serve you well providing you are eating and lifting correctly. This first cycle will teach you a lot about how your body responds, and you can adjust in the future.

I should also mention that while the gains increase with dose, it follows the law of diminishing returns. Double the dose does not give you double the gains, but it could more than double the risks. That is why we want to keep the dose as low as possible while still getting solid gains. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

Great advice. As we become more experienced as AAS users it's very important to do the research and determine how much of a certain compound is too much.

[gearbox]

Great thread. I see many vets tell us doses that are just to high for the risk reward factor. U just gotta read and write stuff down. Love the sharing on this forum.