Test, Deca and Masteron

[adamjames]

Doing 20 weeks using Rowlands slingshot method in march, starting on test prop 500 mg week, i was going to add in deca at maybe 400 mg or 300 at weeks 11-20, im also debating using masteron for the last 6 or 8 weeks of the course, ive read a lot of great stuff about it. Does anyone have experience running these 3 compounds? Ive allready got some pharma grade deca and all my prop ready to go but im having second thoughts about using the deca now, i might just leave out the deca all together and add masteron in at 50 mg eod at week 11 when i start my second blast phase, also.... would i need to carry on taking arimidex if i added in the masteron and left out the deca?? cheers

[The Bear 79]

What are your stats, cycle history & goals? And you do realize by the end of a 20 week cycle, recovery will be very difficult if at all possible. What is your planned PCT?

[Sgt. Hartman]

No offense to Ronnie but slingshot cycling is a recipe for permanent HPTA shutdown IMO. There are many other ways of achieving the same or better results while cycling responsibly and maintaining your natural hormonal function.

[Super-Chump]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Ronnie suggest only cycling for 8 weeks? Where did this 20 week business come from?

[The Bear 79]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Ronnie suggest only cycling for 8 weeks? Where did this 20 week business come from?

Its called Blast & Cruise. Blast for 8 weeks at a moderate to high dose, & then cruise 2 weeks at a low dose, & then Blast, & then Cruise, & then Blast...............you get the idea. This can go on for as long as you choose.

[adamjames]

sarge, what would you suggest that would be better in your opinion? Would you not agree with Ron about myostatin build up which stops gains coming by around week 8? Rons really put me off doing a 12 week cycle followed by pct, im looking at competing in a couple of years so i dont want to just get big then lose it all then do the same all over, ive taken your advice btw im going to be running the arimidex throughout the course for estrogen sides at a low dose. Super chump, that would be two 8 week reloads with two 2 week deloads = 20 weeks

[The Bear 79]

Everything I have read, points to Ron being right about Myostatin. What are your stats & cycle history?

[adamjames]

training - 6 years....one and a half seriously
weight -190- dont know body fat atm but no more than 15 percent, started out at 165 ish
never cycled before
24 years old
diet atm - 350 gs carbs, 80 gs fats, 190 protein

[marcus300]

If you have never cycled before you want to disregard the slingshot method. One compound only and go with 10-12 wks test only.

[adamjames]

what sort of cycle have you ran before bear?? have you got any experience of blasting and cruising? seems to me like the best route as far as longevity goes, i haveto say tho ronnie was quick to tell me not to run anti es although hes pretty keen on hcg if you want kids when your older(his words lol)

[adamjames]

cheers marcus, but ill need more convincing than that Rons won me over so far with his knowledge

[The Bear 79]

I understand your reasoning behind wanting to Blast & Cruise instead of using the old "off & on" method, but if this is your first cycle, I'd stick to Test. only, just to ensure your body accepts it well, after your first Blast, add another compound if you so choose, but only one at a time, that way if there are any issues, you know which compound is causing them. How tall are you? How many total cals are you getting per day? My first coarse of action would be to increase protein intake to about 250.

[marcus300]

You have zero cycle experience. How do you know how you will respond to all these compounds?
Do you have any idea what going on a Long cycle will do to your hpta?
Do you know how well you recover from being shut down?
You don't run before you can walk in this game.
Think about it.

[Sgt. Hartman]

For your first cycle you'll see amazing gains from a 10 or 12 week test only cycle. Eat properly and good pct will keep most of your gains. I honestly don't think you'll be disappointed.

Once you become more experienced you can look into short burst cycling. Basically you run higher doses for 6 or 8 weeks at a time, come off and recover, then go again. This way you can maintain HPTA function and maximize gains by being able to run more cycles in the same amount of time.

Just stick to test for now, you can make amazing gains on your first go round.

[The Bear 79]

what sort of cycle have you ran before bear?? have you got any experience of blasting and cruising? seems to me like the best route as far as longevity goes, i haveto say tho ronnie was quick to tell me not to run anti es although hes pretty keen on hcg if you want kids when your older(his words lol)

I have run 3 "standard" cycles & PCT. But I have recently made the decision to not come off anymore, I plan to compete in the Strongman Comps (professionally, not just the local shows. I want to go international) within the next year, so as of 2 weeks ago, I am on "self prescribed" TRT & I will be blasting and cruising from here on out.

[The Bear 79]

Marcus & Srarge, you guys are awesome, & I hold any & all of your advices on high, but I think you guys are overlooking the big pic here, the OP is not interested in recovering, he wants to be a pro competitor, & its doubtful he will ever reach pro status running traditional cycles, loosing 50%+ of his gains, running again, loosing again, & so on & so on. If he intends to compete like with pro's, he's gona have to cycle like they do. Just my 2 cents.

[adamjames]

Self prescribed trt! Full on!! What do you think about my 1st course Bear? Do you agree with the guys above?
Cheers sarge, once again your making a lot of sense...hmmm...confused now, i was certain about the blast cruise, ill haveto reconsider now, maybe 10 weeks is a better idea, i know Ron wouldnt agree but he seems to be pretty relaxed about hpta function to be honest

[The Bear 79]

Self prescribed trt! Full on!! What do you think about my 1st course Bear? Do you agree with the guys above?
Cheers sarge, once again your making a lot of sense...hmmm...confused now, i was certain about the blast cruise, ill haveto reconsider now, maybe 10 weeks is a better idea, i know Ron wouldnt agree but he seems to be pretty relaxed about hpta function to be honest

See post #12

[adamjames]

cheers didnt see that post, im 5.9, been at the same weight for a couple of months now,was going to put my cals up to 4000 from 3500 for first cycle. I will be running just test for first cycle whatever way i decide to do it

[Sgt. Hartman]

I'm well into my 30's now and if I thought that the slingshot method would give me more gains or allow me to keep more gains then I would jump all over it. Being on TRT at this point is not a fear of mine.

There are many other considerations regarding your health though when you're talking about cycling for 20 or 30 weeks at a time. You have no idea what cycling is gonna do to your lipid value, your BP, or your RBC count. If all those things are compromised while on cycle there's no way a 2 week reload will allow them to recover properly. So then you're risking having fvcked cholesterol, elevated BP, and RBC's through the roof for half a year at a time. Have you looked into the correlation between high blood pressure on AAS and left ventricular hypertrophy? If you're dead of a heart attack it doesn't matter how big you are or how much of your gains you keep while on cycle.

Not to mention, this is your first cycle. You have no idea how you're gonna react to exogenous androgens. You could have issues with health problems I listed above or you could have problems with gyno and other estrogen related side effects. Before jumping into thinking that you're gonna become a professional bodybuilder you need to realize that not only does it require freaky genetics and a phenomenal dedication to training and diet, but it also requires the ability to tolerate massive amounts of steroids. The amount of steroids that the pros take would literally send most people to an early grave.

Just stick with a test cycle for 12 weeks for your first time and see how you react. You can re-assess after that and come up with a plan for the future.

Good luck.

[The Bear 79]

There are many other considerations regarding your health though when you're talking about cycling for 20 or 30 weeks at a time. You have no idea what cycling is gonna do to your lipid value, your BP, or your RBC count. If all those things are compromised while on cycle there's no way a 2 week reload will allow them to recover properly. So then you're risking having fvcked cholesterol, elevated BP, and RBC's through the roof for half a year at a time. Have you looked into the correlation between high blood pressure on AAS and left ventricular hypertrophy? If you're dead of a heart attack it doesn't matter how big you are or how much of your gains you keep while on cycle.

Understood & agreed. But these are all factors I took into consideration before I made the decision (I assume everyone does too) I have put into action several preempted strikes against these side effects, and will get blood work done every 90 days to confirm these counter active measures are working. So in short, I believe if you do your homework & take the proper necessary precautions, a Blast & Cruise cycle can be just as safe as a traditional cycle & much more effective in the overall goal of getting as big as you can in an effort to professionally compete.

[adamjames]

Just had a long read on some of the issues you mention sarge and im now crapping myself, I think i will do what you say thanks for the advice, 12 or 10 weeks, maybe 10 as ive got propionate, then ill get my bloodwork etc done and assess my future aas use and wether or not i want to try and blast and cruise my way to the pro stage.

[adamjames]

Can you advise what tests i should get done before during and after my course

Thanks

[lovbyts]

cheers marcus, but ill need more convincing than that Rons won me over so far with his knowledge

You sound like the same mentality I had when I was very young. You dont understand who Ronnie is preaching/teaching to. This is not for the beginner or even mildly advanced weight trainer. This type of cycle is for the very experienced body builder who is already compeeting and needs to find a way to move up to the next/top level.

Yes it's intriguing and sound like the answer to our goals but it's not. You have to evaluate yourself honestly and no matter what a first cycle should start at the basics, even if the user has been working out for years and is in top notch condition if they are new to aas.

Go read some articles about race car drivers and their secrets/tips. Do you think you can go get into a formula one and compete? No you have to start at a lower level no matter how good THINK you are.

Take it slow, baby steps. You will be glad you did otherwise you will be like 90% of the other guys out ehre who did to much, to soon and regret it for the rest of their lives due to sever side effect, lack luster gains, disappointment, depression, gyno and many other reasons.

Bloodwork
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...bout-bloodwork

I HIGHLY recommend you get your E2 levels checked as well as test about 3 weeks into cycle. I didnt think I had problems with E2 but 3 weeks in I was at 295 range 7.6 - 42.6

[adamjames]

Well you say that lovbyts... but Ronnie is clearly doing a lot of preaching to first time users not just experienced users, he believes that ANYONE beginning aas who is mildly serious about making and keeping gains should start with a 20 week cycle, he strongly advised me against a 12 week cycle and provided me with a lot of evidence to prove it is not optimal, he advises against anything above 20 for beginners but nothing below! Anyone who reads his full post cant deny theres a lot of sense to his methods, i appreciate your caution but surely anyone taking steroids for any amount of time is putting themselves at risk, saying that i will probarbly be taking sarges advice and run a shorter cycle followed by pct and get all me tests done on bloodwork etc before i think about blasting and cruising, i will probarbly go with 10 weeks unless i can find evidence to prove 12 weeks is better, so far i have found no such evidence yet many are quick to advise me to do 12 weeks ! thanks for the links lovbyts