Advice on Anti-e's

[RayL]

This will be my first cycle. Any advice on what kind of anti-e's I should use or just have on hand for a dbol & primobolan depot cycle? When? Dosage? Days?

Cycle will be as follows:

Dbol:
20mg ED (wks 1-4)

Primobolan Depot:
200mg 1/wk (wks 1-2)
300mg 1/wk (wks 3-4)
400mg 1/wk (wks 5-6)
300mg 1/wk (wks 7-8)
200mg 1/wk (wks 9-10)

[Boxer101]

none.

None are needed on primo and at 20mg/ed of dbol I wouldn't think you would need any there either.

[Boxer101]

Also, ditch the pyramid scheme on your primo, that went out in like 1985. run a straight dose of at least 400mg/wk if you can get it.

[RayL]

Thanks Boxer 101, since this is my first cycle, don't you think that i should at least have something on-hand just in case I am ultra-sensitive. I have read that dbol can cause gyno quickly in some people even at low doses.

[Boxer101]

If it makes you feel better get yourself some extra clomid tabs. You are going to need clomid for your post cycle recovery anyway and since clomid is a mild anti-e you could take it if you started to feel the effects of gyno. I wouldn't take it though unless you needed it because just like novaldex, clomid and most other anti-e's with the exception of arimidex will hinder gains.

[RayL]

In a worst case scenario, how much clomid should I have on hand?

[Red5]

I don't believe anti-e's will hinder your gains and as nolva and clomid is so cheap there is no reason not to have some just in case gyno is a problem.

[Boxer101]

Novaldex and clomid compete for receptor sites with your AAS's therefore yes, its a fact they will hinder gains.

Novaldex and clomid occupy these receptors preventing estrogen from binding and wreaking its havoc. Arimidex on the otherhand prevents the conversion from ever taking place and therefore does not work on the same mechanism as clomid and novaldex thereby no hinderance of gains.

If you run the standard clomid recovery 300/100/50 you will need 50 tabs. If you had another 50 for a total of 100 tabs I would think you would be ok.

Also, just my personal 2c's... if you get gyno from 20mg of dbol and any amount of primo you need to go ahead and invest in a bra now. I dont care how hyper sensitive a person is, for them to get gyno of off primo is unheard of. Not entirely impossible I guess but certainly the chances are so slim that if they did they would probably already have it from their own endogenous hormone production.

[nj_]

Originally posted by Boxer101
If you run the standard clomid recovery 300/100/50 you will need 50 tabs. If you had another 50 for a total of 100 tabs I would think you would be ok.

300/100/50 = 36 tabs by my calculations. Where'd the other 14 tabs go?

300mg Day 1 = 6 tabs.
100 ED Days 2-11 = 20 tabs.
50 ED Days 12-21 = 10 tabs.

[Red5]

Originally posted by Boxer101
Novaldex and clomid compete for receptor sites with your AAS's therefore yes, its a fact they will hinder gains.

Wrong. Nolva and clomid block estrogen receptor sites preventing estrogen from getting in there and doing its stuff.However steroids attach to the androgen receptor and this is what causes the muscle to grow.
It is not a fact that nolva hinders gains and even if it did it would be to such a small extent that you wouldn't even notice it.

[956Vette]

elevated estrogen levels aid in muscle growth-if your body can handle it safely.

[Boxer101]

nj_ I was actually thinking of this, I have never done it for the duration you are speaking of.

300 x 1 day = 6 tabs (first day)
100 x 6 days = 600 = 12 tabs (remainder of week)
50 x 7 days = 350 = 7 tabs (second week)

Total tabs = 25

956Vette is right, I probably should have been more specific.

Red5, clomid and novaldex block estrogen from binding by occupying ER sites.... and not to keep debating what ultimately is going to boil down to a matter of opinion but yes, I have in fact noticed and I no longer use anti-e's with the exception of arimidex unless I feel the symptoms of gyno coming on.

[JohnnyB]

Keep it at 1 dose

JohnnyB

[JohnnyB]

The primo that is

JohnnyB

[RayL]

OK, here's what I have decided so far. I will use the dbol as I have already said. Then, I will use a constant dose of 300mg/wk for weeks 1-10.

[Sicilian30]

Primo is one of the cleanest test there is. It does not armotmaze. And deca the only thing you have to worry about is progestrone gyno if you do high enough dosases.
Dbol may and can cause some gyno symptoms, but your dosases are quite small. The pyramid scheme you can trash as someone else said here.
BUT a good rule of thumb is to ALWAYS have anti esters just in case.

[Boxer101]

RayL, thats a much better idea. Give that a shot and post your stats and other info and keep us all up to date on your progress. Good luck bro...

[sooner45]

Dumb question, but what are the chances of gettin Gyno from Deca 300mg once a week for 9 weeks????

[Boxer101]

Its not a dumb question bro, the chances are pretty slim. I have taken in excess of 900mg/wk and never had a problem but then again everyone is different. 300 should definitely not be a problem.

[sooner45]

thanks bro!! i been shittin bricks for the last 10 min!!

[Boxer101]

No bro, I saw your other thread you should be fine. PM me if you need a hand.

[RayL]

Boxer101, you asked about my stats. I am a little ashamed because I am afraid you guys will flame me and say that I am not ready yet but here goes.

Bench press: 295x1, 235x8
Squat: 325x8

Everything else is equally as weak, but after many years of "off and on" training I have never broken the 300lb mark on bench press. Psychologically, this is a huge milestone for me. If I don't get it this time, I may leave the gym forever. My longest period of constant training was probably about 4 years while I was in the Navy. I have never gone more than a few months without training over the last 10 years. Usually I train for about two years straight and make no progress except for the first year of each duration. My diet is ok as far as protein goes. Way too much fat and carbs but I am just trying to get stronger for now. Everytime I diet I always lose strength. I know I am probably much weaker than alot of guys on the board when they started using gear but I am 31 years old and want to do it before it gets too late. I am 5'8" about 190lbs. Yes, I am a fat ass and look like shit. At age 24 I was about the same strength and weighed only 147lbs.

Anyway, once i start my cycle, I will keep everyone posted. I think I may wait a month or so until my work-out partner is ready for his first cycle.It would be nice to have someone to talk to in person that is going through the same thing.

[zozer7]

Some advice on your bench...what I do is what ever my max is I add 100lb and I just lift it off the rack and hold it for a 10 count and then rack it. Sometimes I do it once and sometimes 3 or 4. This will get your tendons and ligaments used to the weight. If I got somebody to spot me for like 450 I will just do negatives, which helps me with the weight. You should think of training as a way of life. Also dont think of yourself as a fat ass. As a man thinks so shall he be!

[RayL]

zozer7, I grew up in SW Baltimore and now live in a nearby suburb. thanks for the advice

[Sicilian30]

Originally posted by RayL
Boxer101, you asked about my stats. I am a little ashamed because I am afraid you guys will flame me and say that I am not ready yet but here goes.

Bench press: 295x1, 235x8
Squat: 325x8

Everything else is equally as weak, but after many years of "off and on" training I have never broken the 300lb mark on bench press. Psychologically, this is a huge milestone for me. If I don't get it this time, I may leave the gym forever. My longest period of constant training was probably about 4 years while I was in the Navy. I have never gone more than a few months without training over the last 10 years. Usually I train for about two years straight and make no progress except for the first year of each duration. My diet is ok as far as <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a></a> goes. Way too much fat and carbs but I am just trying to get stronger for now. Everytime I diet I always lose strength. I know I am probably much weaker than alot of guys on the board when they started using gear but I am 31 years old and want to do it before it gets too late. I am 5'8" about 190lbs. Yes, I am a fat ass and look like shit. At age 24 I was about the same strength and weighed only 147lbs.

Anyway, once i start my cycle, I will keep everyone posted. I think I may wait a month or so until my work-out partner is ready for his first cycle.It would be nice to have someone to talk to in person that is going through the same thing.

RayL don't ever be afraid to ask a question here, and we don't flame on this board if someone does flame you let a mod or a vet know about it, and it will be taken care of. Remember we are all here to learn, (including myself), so there is no such thing as a dumb question, it just the same ole questions over and over again, without people doing searches. Questions like, "Can I drink winny". Your question may have saved someone from hurting themselves. So don't be afraid to ask.
Peace

[Boxer101]

Ray, I would tend to agree that you shouldn't worry about being flamed but in reality it happens including here. The mods have a hard job and do what they can but take it from someone who used to mod (not here) you can't be everywhere at once so yes it happens.

Secondly, in order for you to get proper advice the people who are helping you need to have all the info. You stats are not bad at all 235 for 8 is pretty decent given you weight and all and 325 for 8 on squats is definitely a good start and nothing to be ashamed of. Dude, I was 125 when I started this game and SKINNY as all shit. Didn't have clue what I was doing and listened to some of the big guys in the gym who didn't know shit and got even more fucked up. The only person you can trust where your health is concerned is yourself... period. Take the advice people give you but research it yourself as well. Ask others what they think of the advice you were given and develop the knowledge and confidence you need and you'll be straight. Drop me a line if you need help or post a question here... if you want my input on a thread that I miss then send me a link through the PM and I'll let you know my opinion. Good luck bro...

[Sicilian30]

Good reply Boxer, well said, well put.

[RayL]

Boxer101, thanks, and I'll probably be asking more questions in the future.