Prep for a first cycle.

[gonnagethuge]

I'm currently researching ahead of running a first cycle. I've read a fair bit across a few forums and feel like i'm picking up some mixed information from board to board and post to post. Whether this is differing opinions or bad advice i'm not so sure but i thought i'd be best to start a thread outlining what i think i've picked up so far and hopefully get some useful feedback ahead of starting anything.

So far I've picked up that for a first cycle it is mostly advisable to run testosterone on its own. Preferably test e or test c. Around 400-500mg per week should be enough. For about 10-12 weeks?

I've also learned that pct 2 weeks after the last test injection is a must. Typically in the form of nolvadex or clomid.

Something i'm not entirely clear of is in running an ai throughout the 12 week cycle. I was under the impression from some stuff i read that arimidex, aromisin or liquidex should be used and monitored throughout this period however i've also read on other posts (some even stickied) saying test and nolva (should any gyno develop) will be enough. Can anyone please clarify this for me please?

Basically i'm thinking test e along with arimidex throughout the cycle and nolvadex as pct. Does this seem about right.

I have quite a good grasp on basic nutrition, probably with a bit to learn in terms of how to best utilise it within the context of an aas cycle. But i do understand the concepts of macronutruient ratios and hiw to calculate tdee, lean bulking etc.


Also, i'm currently only 139lbs (around 10% bf) i've been training regularly for about 3 years and have gained about 15lbs lbm since starting. I started at around 126 with a bit more bf. Im 28 years old. Would it be too soon to consider a cycle? I have noticed a few threads with guys at my weight running cycles so i'm a bit unsure. If its too soon then where do you think i should look to be at before cycling?

Thanks in advance.

[gixxerboy1]

yea you should run an ai on cylce.arimidex and liquidex are the same thing. aromisin is a different drung but still an ai. You will have high estrogen on cycle. Gyno is only one side effect of high estrogen. It is better to take and ai and keep your levels in the normal range.

I would use clomid and nolva for pct.

How tall are you. That would give a little more insite to your weight

[BigGuy90]

How tall are you and what is your bf%? at only 139lbs I would hesitate to do a cycle...Get to the nutrition board and learn a real good bulking diet for you man. Try some weight gainers, creatine, some bcaas and multi vitamin. That should help out a lot before you get started on a cycle

[gonnagethuge]

Thanks for the responses guys. Sorry it would've made sense to have said my height lol. I'm about 5ft 7.5

I use scivation xtend bcaas and orange triad multi. I use met-rx mono on and off as well. I previously cut down from around 165lbs with higher bf and have been working on from there and keeping bodyfat low but i feel like its getting tougher. I eat quality cals with no junk. Carb sources are oats, brown and occasional sweet potato as well as brocolli. Proteins are pollock fish, tuna, chicken breast and extra lean mince beef as well as some nice steak when i have the money lol.

I'm currently at 2400cals around 35p 50c 15f but feel like fat gains are advancing a bit faster than muscle.

Appreciate the feedback on the ai's. Would the three things i've outlined appear to make sense as a starting point for research? Its very easy to pick up many different opinion. Ive seen things like arimidex for pct, nolva only as an ai etc etc and never wuite sure whats right. What i've outlined would be my current guess at a good structure but not sure which is why im here lol

[gonnagethuge]

Oh and eggs, cottage cheese and natty peanut butter as staples in my diet too. Not quite eating chicken for breakfast yet lol

[upperhandy]

you are going to need to shift some of those carb calories over to protein

right now looks like you're getting about 1.3g/lb of body weight and you want to be in the 1.5g-2.0g/lb range

that will def help slow/stop any fat you may be putting on

[DeadlyD]

Gixxer's advise is correct, adex on cycle from day one starting @.25 eod increase if needed, standard PCT is nolvadex and Clomid for 4 weeks ex.
Nolva-40/40/20/20
Clomid-100/100/50/50

[DeadlyD]

Sorry the Clomid and nolva numbers are every day for 4 weeks.

[gonnagethuge]

Are you sure irs 1.3

This is from memory of my spreadsheet i may be slightly higher in protein than the 35% but even at 35% ive got that at 1.5 per lb.

35% of 2400 = 840
840/4 = 210
210/139 =1.51

my maths could be out somewhere so apogies if ive got it wrong lol.

would you still recommend going higher in protein? Im higher on carbs at present as i was generally advised to get higher on carbs to gain more weight lol.

All input/criticism appreciated. here to learn.

[upperhandy]

Are you sure irs 1.3

This is from memory of my spreadsheet i may be slightly higher in protein than the 35% but even at 35% ive got that at 1.5 per lb.

35% of 2400 = 840
840/4 = 210
210/139 =1.51

my maths could be out somewhere so apogies if ive got it wrong lol.

would you still recommend going higher in protein? Im higher on carbs at present as i was generally advised to get higher on carbs to gain more weight lol.

All input/criticism appreciated. here to learn.

no you're totally correct... i was skimming the thread and used your previous body weight (165lb) for the calculation...

still if you shifted some calories from your carbs to protein and brought up the protein to 2g/lb you will prob be very pleased with the results

carbs are necessary to gain weight... but as you are experiencing it is somewhat of a fine tuning process....

[gonnagethuge]

Gixxer's advise is correct, adex on cycle from day one starting @.25 eod increase if needed, standard PCT is nolvadex and Clomid for 4 weeks ex.
Nolva-40/40/20/20
Clomid-100/100/50/50

Thats great, thanks for clarifying this guys. I wasn't too far away i guess lol. I wasnt aware of clo.id and nolva together but i did just see that on a recent post too along with hcg. Would hcg be becessary on a first cycle or is the test/ adex and nolva/clomid enough first time round? I've still got much to learn in terms of timings and quantities. Just trying to get a good grasp on the substances to use and when i should be in a physical (as well as knowledgeable) position to consider their use.

[gonnagethuge]

no you're totally correct... i was skimming the thread and used your previous body weight (165lb) for the calculation...

still if you shifted some calories from your carbs to protein and brought up the protein to 2g/lb you will prob be very pleased with the results

carbs are necessary to gain weight... but as you are experiencing it is somewhat of a fine tuning process....

No worries lol. I do put a fair bit of work into my diet and calcs thesedays after hitting an unimpressive 165. I will give this some consideration as i tend to agree with you on the higher protein based on a bit more fat gain of late.

[gonnagethuge]

Another question i now have after some more reading. On cycle if using an ai and symptoms of high estrogen i.e gyno starts to occur would nolva need to be used to combat the problem at the breast tissue or would the ai dosage just need to be increased. I
feel like i'm reading different answers to these questions in different posts. It'd be good to have a clear understanding.

[johngotti]

damn you need to put on some more weight before u cycle, anyway a good first cycle is 10 12 weeks test e or c at 500mgs split in two shots mon thurs two weeks after your last pinn start pct. I like clomid 50/50/50/50 and nolva at 40/40/20/20 Always have an AI like adex or asin on hand to battle gyno u can use it throught cycle or if needed.IF you juice do it right diet is #1

[DeadlyD]

Another question i now have after some more reading. On cycle if using an ai and symptoms of high estrogen i.e gyno starts to occur would nolva need to be used to combat the problem at the breast tissue or would the ai dosage just need to be increased. I
feel like i'm reading different answers to these questions in different posts. It'd be good to have a clear understanding.

If your nips start to to get puffy,itchy,sore then up the AI dose, if you get a lump then I would run nolvadex 20mgs day till the lump is gone or until your PCT is finished,

[DeadlyD]

Also HCG would not be a bad idea for the last 2 weeks up until PCT starts @ 250iu 2xa week.

[johngotti]

if u get a lump and your ai aint working go with letro.But real adex or asin should prevent it

[DeadlyD]

damn you need to put on some more weight before u cycle, anyway a good first cycle is 10 12 weeks test e or c at 500mgs split in two shots mon thurs two weeks after your last pinn start pct. I like clomid 50/50/50/50 and nolva at 40/40/20/20 Always have an AI like adex or asin on hand to battle gyno u can use it throught cycle or if needed.IF you juice do it right diet is #1

Waiting to use an AI until you get gyno is bad advise.

[johngotti]

some people dont need it how do u know u need it if u dont see how your body reacts to the test

[johngotti]

I never said wait till u get gyno nobody gets full blown gyno right away people are way to paranoid about it u need some estro in your body bros are crashing there estro for no reason taking to much cause there paranoid

[gixxerboy1]

some people dont need it how do u know u need it if u dont see how your body reacts to the test

anyone who injects test will have high estrogen. High estrogen does more then just gyno. You need to keep your estrogen in the normal range.

[gixxerboy1]

I never said wait till u get gyno nobody gets full blown gyno right away people are way to paranoid about it u need some estro in your body bros are crashing there estro for no reason taking to much cause there paranoid

thats why you take the correct dose. You dont want to crash it, just keep in in the normal range

[johngotti]

so run a AI be on the safe side nothing wrong with that

[DeadlyD]

so run a AI be on the safe side nothing wrong with that

Yes run the AI from the start at a low dose ......like I stated

[johngotti]

good job deadly

[gonnagethuge]

Thanks for all the input guys i think its made the purpose of everything a bit clearer:

To summarise all that i've picked up:

On cycle: use test and an ai, the ai controls estrogen in the body (and should ideally be monitored through bloodwork)

pct: use both clomid and nolva and continue use of an ai (i think i've read that aromisin can be beneficial at this stage)

during cycle if itchiness occurs or there are any signs of gyno occuring then the first port of call should be to increase the ai dosage to decrease estrogen. Nolva should only be used during the test cycle if gyno has developed as it targets the breast tissue and prevents reception of estrogen from the area. Letrozole is one otjer option however use of this almost completely annhilates estrogen completely which can have negative effects on muscle building and result in loss of libido, dryness, join soreness andother sides. Its a harsher drug that should probably only be used in more extreme circumstances?

On another note, i'm aware that i may be too light to start a cycle just yet, so what sort of increase in lbm would be advisable before starting a first cycle. I believe i currently have 126lbs lbm. My diet, i feel is pretty strong and has been for a while, i just need to tweak here and there to control gat gain and focus on my workouts.

Thanks again guys.

[DeadlyD]

I'm glad to see you've done more research! Now just nail your diet down in the nutrition section, those guys helped me drop 7% body fat in 6 weeks naturally!!

[gonnagethuge]

I'm glad to see you've done more research! Now just nail your diet down in the nutrition section, those guys helped me drop 7% body fat in 6 weeks naturally!!

Thanks Deadly, yeah the nutrition section was my first port of call on these boards. I'd like to thibk that unlike some i do understand that fiet is the most important aspect. From feedback i thibk my diets been pretty much on track in terms of choices, its a matter of refining calories etc to try and gain quality lbm. I'm here now Just trying to pick up sone advice on aas so i know whats what and to try and get an understanding of where i'd need to be at before i ever start.

[< <Samson> >]

Good to see other people learning and gathering info before sticking themselves with a foreign substance and knowing exactly on what is going to happen.

All the same information I came across and the same conclusion I came to.

[DeadlyD]

Thanks Deadly, yeah the nutrition section was my first port of call on these boards. I'd like to thibk that unlike some i do understand that fiet is the most important aspect. From feedback i thibk my diets been pretty much on track in terms of choices, its a matter of refining calories etc to try and gain quality lbm. I'm here now Just trying to pick up sone advice on aas so i know whats what and to try and get an understanding of where i'd need to be at before i ever start.

If you feel you have reached your natural potential for muscle mass, then you could run a test ONLY cycle for 10 weeks at 400-500mgs a week split up into 2 shots a week every 3.5 days ex. Monday morning and Thursday night ect . I really advise that you try to put on some more weights naturally first, and don't stop your research!! Good luck bro.

[gonnagethuge]

Good to see other people learning and gathering info before sticking themselves with a foreign substance and knowing exactly on what is going to happen.

All the same information I came across and the same conclusion I came to.

Its really just a matter of being sensible and learning from those with experience to make sure most of the gains made are kept.

Also ensures that i'm not burning my money lol.

[gonnagethuge]

If you feel you have reached your natural potential for muscle mass, then you could run a test ONLY cycle for 10 weeks at 400-500mgs a week split up into 2 shots a week every 3.5 days ex. Monday morning and Thursday night ect . I really advise that you try to put on some more weights naturally first, and don't stop your research!! Good luck bro.

Definitely agree. Don't think i've reached my genetic potential but i feel as if quality lbm gains come slowly for me. Somehow i can add mass in the way of fat but lbm seems to be a really slow process. I think i've got approx 15lbs lbm in my time training which isn't too bad. Will defibinitely keep on learning and working on the nutritional and training aspects for now anyway that's for sure.

Much appreciate all the advice.

[Blade15]

Go to diet section.. you will find what you need...

[gonnagethuge]

Go to diet section.. you will find what you need...

First place i went when i came on this forum bro My diet has apparently pretty good lol. Just got to keep at it.