Is HIIT for 15mins after muscle workout ruining gains??

[bradhore]

I still cant get to the bottom of this, whether doing 15mins of high intensity workout is going to hinder my gains if i do it straight after a muscle workout. Im trying to lose fat and maintain muscle (or possible even build muscle), but i know you guys say its gotta be one or the other... cut or bulk., but with the right diet i think i can gain muscle and lose fat, just wondering if by doing hiit after workout will have a bad effect on my muscle. bear in mind straight after that cardio workout im gonna have a protein shake with 20g waxy maize starch..

[DanB]

No you will be fine

[baseline_9]

15 mins of HIIT is not going to be the 'be all or end all'....

I now believe you can build muscle and loose Bodyfat at the same time...

By at the same time i actually mean at different times though (during a week or even day)...

You need to quickly transition between phases of building muscle and loosing fat for the results to be optimal IMO...

A period where the main goal is to deplete glycogen and then burn stored bodyfat..... Followed by an anabolic phase where the goal is to build muscle


The 'Leangains' approach is one way to achieve this....

[rasc170]

15 mins of HIIT is not going to be the 'be all or end all'....

I now believe you can build muscle and loose Bodyfat at the same time...

By at the same time i actually mean at different times though (during a week or even day)...

You need to quickly transition between phases of building muscle and loosing fat for the results to be optimal IMO...

A period where the main goal is to deplete glycogen and then burn stored bodyfat..... Followed by an anabolic phase where the goal is to build muscle


The 'Leangains' approach is one way to achieve this....

currently on leangains and loving it. Although I'm doing a straight cut and so far natty. I've heard of other nattys reporting they were able to build muscle and lose fat at the same time....dont know how true it is. But for people who are on gear, it's definately possible

can't wait till the end of this cut and doing my first cycle of 500 mg of test cyp. weekly and leangains.

[bradhore]

and what is the 'leangains' approach??

[baseline_9]

and what is the 'leangains' approach??

Intermittent fasting, look it up... leangains dot com

[bradhore]

Ive not properly looked into it but i really dont see how you can gain or even maintain muscle tissue without the intake of protein to preserve or build muscle. I wouldn't risk it!

[baseline_9]

Ive not properly looked into it but i really dont see how you can gain or even maintain muscle tissue without the intake of protein to preserve or build muscle. I wouldn't risk it!

Clearly you havnt looked into it....

Who said anything about a diet without protein?

[bradhore]

I briefly read on wiki that you consume nothing for 24hours then consume after 24 hours. If its the case where your consuming only protein and no carbs at all then thats the Dave palumbo diet, ive done that before. Lost a stone, mainly water, but fat and muscle too.

[lovbyts]

Fasting is very good for you if done properly. Some people combine it with a good colon flush at the same time.

Doing even 30 min of HIT would not effect gains at and in fact would be better for you IMO.

[PaddyOLantern]

I briefly read on wiki that you consume nothing for 24hours then consume after 24 hours. If its the case where your consuming only protein and no carbs at all then thats the Dave palumbo diet, ive done that before. Lost a stone, mainly water, but fat and muscle too.

If you went to the website that baseline gave you (leangains dot com), you would know that is not the Leangains approach to fasting.

Leangains is a very effective tool for some. For others, it might not work. My conclusion on it is that if it makes your life easier and more convenient, there's no reason not to do it. If it's not, you can accomplish the same thing by spacing 3 meals throughout the day. Leangains is built on the premise that meal timing is irrelevant and that taken to extremes of multiple meals per day, can be counterproductive. Personally, I didn't like the Leangains approach but it's because I go to bed almost immediately after my workout but that's just me personally.

[bradhore]

Whats your stats mate? Oh, and if doin 30mins cardio after workout, surely that wont be good as your meant to consume protein within 20mins of muscle workout right?

[Back In Black]

And the bro science continues!

[PaddyOLantern]

Whats your stats mate? Oh, and if doin 30mins cardio after workout, surely that wont be good as your meant to consume protein within 20mins of muscle workout right?

I'm not sure a 30 minute HIIT workout is necessary, especially after lifting. Maybe try Tabata training.

tabataprotocol dot com

Mine takes no more than 20 minutes on an elliptical. I do mine first thing in the morning 2x a week after a scoop of Purple Wraath.

[bradhore]

If you went to the website that baseline gave you (leangains dot com), you would know that is not the Leangains approach to fasting.

Leangains is a very effective tool for some. For others, it might not work. My conclusion on it is that if it makes your life easier and more convenient, there's no reason not to do it. If it's not, you can accomplish the same thing by spacing 3 meals throughout the day. Leangains is built on the premise that meal timing is irrelevant and that taken to extremes of multiple meals per day, can be counterproductive. Personally, I didn't like the Leangains approach but it's because I go to bed almost immediately after my workout but that's just me personally.

if the website for leangains ISN'T leangains dot com then why did he say it was??

[PaddyOLantern]

if the website for leangains ISN'T leangains dot com then why did he say it was??

Reading comprehension FTW!

[AcquireMass]

Outdated broscience is definitely outdated. You should read more than M&F or anything else where articles revolve around the supplement industry. Leangains and IF are not fad diets. It's simply getting your macros in a smaller window during the day. If it works for your schedule then do it. If not then don't. If 10 meals/day is your thing then do that.......just understand it is not necessary.

[cebby1985]

Click on pic to see me 6 months ago.
Compare that to my avi now. Thats what cardio and good diet does for you. I went from 320+ to 260 all natty. I just started my cycle 2 wks ago. I did all sorts of cardio sfter lifting. This past mon i benched 495 for a touch and go after my bench workout.

That should give you an idea of how cardio effects your strentgh

[cebby1985]

Outdated broscience is definitely outdated. You should read more than M&F or anything else where articles revolve around the supplement industry. Leangains and IF are not fad diets. It's simply getting your macros in a smaller window during the day. If it works for your schedule then do it. If not then don't. If 10 meals/day is your thing then do that.......just understand it is not necessary.

This.

[bradhore]

Outdated broscience is definitely outdated. You should read more than M&F or anything else where articles revolve around the supplement industry. Leangains and IF are not fad diets. It's simply getting your macros in a smaller window during the day. If it works for your schedule then do it. If not then don't. If 10 meals/day is your thing then do that.......just understand it is not necessary.

Disagree.. I think you need 8 to 10 meals a day. If you have 3 meals a day, the maximum intake of protein the body can intake is around 46grams i think, so having 3 meals a day of a maimum of 46g protein is only giving you 138g per day, and to my caculation most BB's need 300g plus !
This is why you have more meals spread throughout the day. Another reason is or energy levels!

[lovbyts]

I agree, eating 6+ times a day I think is best for anyone. When hungry 1st thing your body does is store fat for later when it's hungry again and you are not feeding it.
Biggest change I ever made was simply eating 6x a day and will little or no working out I started loosing weight after a couple of months. I went from 210+ to 165 in a few months then started trying to gain, working out and eating a lot more. I did not eat small meals either to loose the weight. I age normal.

[bradhore]

I agree, eating 6+ times a day I think is best for anyone. When hungry 1st thing your body does is store fat for later when it's hungry again and you are not feeding it.
Biggest change I ever made was simply eating 6x a day and will little or no working out I started loosing weight after a couple of months. I went from 210+ to 165 in a few months then started trying to gain, working out and eating a lot more. I did not eat small meals either to loose the weight. I age normal.

Yeap.

Is that you in your avatar? if so youve done well. whats your stats??

[lovbyts]

Yeap.

Is that you in your avatar? if so youve done well. whats your stats??

No, i was getting pretty close but I have to start all over more or less. The last 1 1/2 years has been tough. Detached retina Nov 2010 so NO lifting for 4 months. Mom got Pancriatic cancer De***ber 2010... Injured left shoulder May/June 2011 torn rotator cuff. Detached lens after that was repaired Oct 2011. Surgery to fix the shoulder in 2 weeks. HOPEFULLY I can get started again after that. You can see teh weightless pics in my profile pics.

[baseline_9]

Disagree.. I think you need 8 to 10 meals a day. If you have 3 meals a day, the maximum intake of protein the body can intake is around 46grams i think, so having 3 meals a day of a maimum of 46g protein is only giving you 138g per day, and to my caculation most BB's need 300g plus !
This is why you have more meals spread throughout the day. Another reason is or energy levels!

OMFG

This is 100% incorrect!

Where are you getting this bro science from


I cant even be bothered to back up my statement that your 100% wrong.... This is really basic, a myth created my guess who.... The supplement industry

[bradhore]

well tell me. would be nice to know why

[baseline_9]

well tell me. would be nice to know why

Well its simply not correct.... The body can asimilate massive amounts of protien in individual sittings...

How do you think we 'humans' have managed to survive for all these years.... Cave men would have to go out and hunt for protein and may have gone days/weeks without protein..

Im sorry if I come across as being harsh...


Here is part of an artice on leangains where Martin Berkhan adreses the issue... If u want to read any related studies please visit his site


Myth: Maintain a steady supply of amino acids by eating protein every 2-3 hours. The body can only absorb 30 grams of protein in one sitting.

Truth

''Whenever you hear something really crazy you need to ask yourself if it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. It's a great way to quickly determine if something may be valid or if it's more likely a steaming pile of horseshit. This myth is a great example of the latter. Do you think we would be here today if our bodies could only make use of 30 grams of protein per meal?

The simple truth is that more protein just takes a longer time to digest and be utilized. For some concrete numbers, digestion of a standard meal is still incomplete after five hours. Amino acids are still being released into your bloodstream and absorbed into muscles. You are still "anabolic ." This is a fairly standard "Average Joe"-meal: 600 kcal, 75 g carbs, 37 g protein and 17 g fat. Best of all? This was after eating pizza, a refined food that should be quickly absorbed relatively speaking.

Think about this for a second. How long do you think a big steak, with double the protein intake of the above example, and a big pile of veggies would last you? More than 10 hours, that's for sure. Meal composition plays an important role in absorption speed, especially when it comes to amino acids. Type of protein, fiber, carbohydrates and prior meals eaten all affect how long you'll have amino acids released and being taken up by tissues after meals.

Origin

I think this "30 grams of protein"-nonsense started to circulate after a classic study from 1997 by Boirie and colleagues. "Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion" was the first study to quantify the absorption rate of whey and casein protein and gave birth to the concept of fast and slow protein. After that, whey protein came to be known for it's ability to rapidly elevate amino acids in the blood stream and casein for it's ability to create a sustained release of amino acids. Whey was anabolic and casein anti-catabolic.

Given that 30 grams of whey protein was absorbed within 3-4 hours, I guess some people believed that meant 30 grams of protein can only be used in one sitting. Or that you had to eat every 3-4 hours to stay "anabolic." Unfortunately, people missed a few facts that made these findings irrelevant to real-world scenarios. First of all, this study looked at the absorption rate of whey protein in the fasted state. On it's own, and with no meals eaten beforehand, 30 grams of whey protein is absorbed within a mere 3-4 hours. With meals eaten earlier in the day, or if you'd consume a whey shake after a meal, absorption would be much slower.

Second of all, whey protein is the fastest protein of all and digests at 10 g/hour. Casein is much slower; in Boirie's study, the casein protein was still being absorbed when they stopped the experiment 7 hours later. Most whole food proteins are absorbed at a rate of 3-6 grams an hour. Add other macronutrients to that and they'll take longer.''

[baseline_9]

This always makes me laugh.... From the LG's site..



One of my clients, showing symptoms of profound catabolism by impaired protein absorption and daily 16 hour periods of fasting.

[bradhore]

Well its simply not correct.... The body can asimilate massive amounts of protien in individual sittings...

How do you think we 'humans' have managed to survive for all these years.... Cave men would have to go out and hunt for protein and may have gone days/weeks without protein..

Im sorry if I come across as being harsh...


Here is part of an artice on leangains where Martin Berkhan adreses the issue... If u want to read any related studies please visit his site


Myth: Maintain a steady supply of amino acids by eating protein every 2-3 hours. The body can only absorb 30 grams of protein in one sitting.

Truth

''Whenever you hear something really crazy you need to ask yourself if it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. It's a great way to quickly determine if something may be valid or if it's more likely a steaming pile of horseshit. This myth is a great example of the latter. Do you think we would be here today if our bodies could only make use of 30 grams of protein per meal?

The simple truth is that more protein just takes a longer time to digest and be utilized. For some concrete numbers, digestion of a standard meal is still incomplete after five hours. Amino acids are still being released into your bloodstream and absorbed into muscles. You are still "anabolic ." This is a fairly standard "Average Joe"-meal: 600 kcal, 75 g carbs, 37 g protein and 17 g fat. Best of all? This was after eating pizza, a refined food that should be quickly absorbed relatively speaking.

Think about this for a second. How long do you think a big steak, with double the protein intake of the above example, and a big pile of veggies would last you? More than 10 hours, that's for sure. Meal composition plays an important role in absorption speed, especially when it comes to amino acids. Type of protein, fiber, carbohydrates and prior meals eaten all affect how long you'll have amino acids released and being taken up by tissues after meals.

Origin

I think this "30 grams of protein"-nonsense started to circulate after a classic study from 1997 by Boirie and colleagues. "Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion" was the first study to quantify the absorption rate of whey and casein protein and gave birth to the concept of fast and slow protein. After that, whey protein came to be known for it's ability to rapidly elevate amino acids in the blood stream and casein for it's ability to create a sustained release of amino acids. Whey was anabolic and casein anti-catabolic.

Given that 30 grams of whey protein was absorbed within 3-4 hours, I guess some people believed that meant 30 grams of protein can only be used in one sitting. Or that you had to eat every 3-4 hours to stay "anabolic." Unfortunately, people missed a few facts that made these findings irrelevant to real-world scenarios. First of all, this study looked at the absorption rate of whey protein in the fasted state. On it's own, and with no meals eaten beforehand, 30 grams of whey protein is absorbed within a mere 3-4 hours. With meals eaten earlier in the day, or if you'd consume a whey shake after a meal, absorption would be much slower.

Second of all, whey protein is the fastest protein of all and digests at 10 g/hour. Casein is much slower; in Boirie's study, the casein protein was still being absorbed when they stopped the experiment 7 hours later. Most whole food proteins are absorbed at a rate of 3-6 grams an hour. Add other macronutrients to that and they'll take longer.''

Ok thanks for the info. I still think we have meals every 2-3 hours for energy reasons though..

[bradhore]

can we consume 75g or 100g of whey protein in 1 shake then in that case?

[cebby1985]

Disagree.. I think you need 8 to 10 meals a day. If you have 3 meals a day, the maximum intake of protein the body can intake is around 46grams i think, so having 3 meals a day of a maimum of 46g protein is only giving you 138g per day, and to my caculation most BB's need 300g plus !
This is why you have more meals spread throughout the day. Another reason is or energy levels!

Read up on lyle mcdonald. He had some great approaches to dieting. Futhermore, calorie expenditure varies by weight and since not everyone is the dsme, your bkankey statement couldnt be further ftom the truth

[bradhore]

Read up on lyle mcdonald. He had some great approaches to dieting. Futhermore, calorie expenditure varies by weight and since not everyone is the dsme, your bkankey statement couldnt be further ftom the truth

Bkanky statement?

[bradhore]

Well its simply not correct.... The body can asimilate massive amounts of protien in individual sittings...

How do you think we 'humans' have managed to survive for all these years.... Cave men would have to go out and hunt for protein and may have gone days/weeks without protein..

Im sorry if I come across as being harsh...


Here is part of an artice on leangains where Martin Berkhan adreses the issue... If u want to read any related studies please visit his site


Myth: Maintain a steady supply of amino acids by eating protein every 2-3 hours. The body can only absorb 30 grams of protein in one sitting.

Truth

''Whenever you hear something really crazy you need to ask yourself if it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. It's a great way to quickly determine if something may be valid or if it's more likely a steaming pile of horseshit. This myth is a great example of the latter. Do you think we would be here today if our bodies could only make use of 30 grams of protein per meal?

The simple truth is that more protein just takes a longer time to digest and be utilized. For some concrete numbers, digestion of a standard meal is still incomplete after five hours. Amino acids are still being released into your bloodstream and absorbed into muscles. You are still "anabolic ." This is a fairly standard "Average Joe"-meal: 600 kcal, 75 g carbs, 37 g protein and 17 g fat. Best of all? This was after eating pizza, a refined food that should be quickly absorbed relatively speaking.

Think about this for a second. How long do you think a big steak, with double the protein intake of the above example, and a big pile of veggies would last you? More than 10 hours, that's for sure. Meal composition plays an important role in absorption speed, especially when it comes to amino acids. Type of protein, fiber, carbohydrates and prior meals eaten all affect how long you'll have amino acids released and being taken up by tissues after meals.

Origin

I think this "30 grams of protein"-nonsense started to circulate after a classic study from 1997 by Boirie and colleagues. "Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion" was the first study to quantify the absorption rate of whey and casein protein and gave birth to the concept of fast and slow protein. After that, whey protein came to be known for it's ability to rapidly elevate amino acids in the blood stream and casein for it's ability to create a sustained release of amino acids. Whey was anabolic and casein anti-catabolic.

Given that 30 grams of whey protein was absorbed within 3-4 hours, I guess some people believed that meant 30 grams of protein can only be used in one sitting. Or that you had to eat every 3-4 hours to stay "anabolic." Unfortunately, people missed a few facts that made these findings irrelevant to real-world scenarios. First of all, this study looked at the absorption rate of whey protein in the fasted state. On it's own, and with no meals eaten beforehand, 30 grams of whey protein is absorbed within a mere 3-4 hours. With meals eaten earlier in the day, or if you'd consume a whey shake after a meal, absorption would be much slower.

Second of all, whey protein is the fastest protein of all and digests at 10 g/hour. Casein is much slower; in Boirie's study, the casein protein was still being absorbed when they stopped the experiment 7 hours later. Most whole food proteins are absorbed at a rate of 3-6 grams an hour. Add other macronutrients to that and they'll take longer.''

Unless you take insulin straight after your workout its absorbed almost instantly right??

[cebby1985]

Bkanky statement?

Haha blanket.

[cebby1985]

Let me say that ive never used if or leangains or any other non traditional diet. I personally eat every 2.5hrs. I believe the biggest thing behind if and others is to disprove the fact that you have to eat every 3 hrs as long as youre hitting macros and staying w in calorie needs

[Todd the truth]

+1 tabata

[< <Samson> >]

This always makes me laugh.... From the LG's site..



One of my clients, showing symptoms of profound catabolism by impaired protein absorption and daily 16 hour periods of fasting.

That is insane, if you are a personal trainer you are worth every penny.


That's like what 3% Bf? Awesomeness

[bradhore]

in that case why is a protein shake a serving of 46g protein and not 200g or 300g?? there is a reason theres a maximum protein intake amount.....

[< <Samson> >]

in that case why is a protein shake a serving of 46g protein and not 200g or 300g?? there is a reason theres a maximum protein intake amount.....

Good question. My protein shakes are over 100 grams of protein. Is this a waste? It seems to be working. I'm growing very fast. . .

[baseline_9]

in that case why is a protein shake a serving of 46g protein and not 200g or 300g?? there is a reason theres a maximum protein intake amount.....

Its funny how you believe that the 'maximum protein intake' is 46g..... Is it a coincidence that your protein supp has 46g per serving.....

And a protein shake serving 'could' be 200 or 300g, you would just need to consume more of it.

[baseline_9]

That is insane, if you are a personal trainer you are worth every penny.


That's like what 3% Bf? Awesomeness

This is one of martin berkhan's clients.... The guy who runs the IF'ing site Lean Gains....