First cycle. Test P or E

[IRISH87]

hi all

been researching the past few months and thought i would go with the standard cycle of test E at 500mg/wk for 12 weeks. but now i am considering running test prop at 500mg/wk for 8 weeks instead. i have never pinned before but i dont think the extra pinning would bother me(just gotta man up)
couple of questions i have are

1.is the prop pinning pains as bad as they say . my gear is going to be pharma grade if that makes a different.
2.would the 8wks of prop give the same results as 12wks of enan..
3.would i be right in saying that recovery would be easier from the 8wks of p than 12wks of e.
4.what are the main differences that i should consider before deciding.

i like the idea of a short cycle since its my first time and what to make recovery as quick/easy as possible. thanks in advance for your time

[Sgt. Hartman]

1. Completely individualistic, it's not that bad for most people
2. Roughly yes, the first 3 - 4 weeks of test e are useless unless you frontload
3. Yes, shorter shutdown equals easier recovery.
4. Just whether or not you can handle pinning EOD at minimum.

[darkcrayz]

First cycles hurt either way as your muscles are virgin and won't like anything in there. Shut down is shut down. Test e takes longer to kick in so you run 12 weeks, prop kicks in faster so you run 8. Either way you will have shutdown. Just run the standard pct and you will be fine. Barring any major complications. Usually guy go with test e as it only requires 2 pokes a week instead of 3-7 depending on hormone level consistency.

[gettintherequick]

Imo its goal dependant if you want more lean gains then go test p of you dont mind the bloat go test e...something to keep in minds idls you get more bang for your buck from test p as your body is able to absorb more of it..test p will kick in quicker and i love it. didnt find the pain all that bad cycle jab spots from delts glutes quads plenty of recovery time. test e turns me into an animal i love it to but i find retainable gains harder to keep than test p. test p will prob give u night sweats and test rush as it did me..good luck either is a quality choice also less overall side effects from test p

[IRISH87]

thanks for the quick replies. my goal is mainly just for lean gain and nothing too major as i want to try and keep as much as possible.if i was able to keep 6 or 7 lbs of leaan muscle that would be amazing. ^^also the idea of less bloating is whats steering me towards prop (dont want that lolly pop head lol) . is there studies that show prop is better for retaning gains or is that just from your experience? guess ill just have to make sure ill be able for all the pinning before i purchase anything.

[DanB]

retaining gains is down to you

pct diet and training will determine what you keep i.m.o

genetics also but i dont think your near genetic potential at the minute so they shouldnt be a main factor

[gettintherequick]

Fantastic post there mate all day iv been reading the most outrageous posts askin the most stupid questions..you saying you want retainable gains and nothing major is very refreshing good to hear it. use as little as possible needed to get the job done-this is the key to retaining gains..taper on to gear and taper off it gradually over a week or two. whilst tapering off use hcg for those final two weeks to bring the family jewels back to life then continue pct..as a rule of thumb the leaner the muscle gained on cycle the easier it is to retain due to the ratio of water to muscle mass..bloated muscle will lose alot of water very quickly and as a result remaining muscle will suffer..these are my opiniins based on my experiences nothing more

[IRISH87]

i plan on running hcg throughout the cycle.what would an 8 week cycle of 500mg/wk look like if i were t taper on/off. never really considered a taper. ill have clomid and tamox for pct and adex for on cycle,all of which will be pharma grade

[DanB]

I wouldnt advise taper on and off this is an old school method

you running 500mg of prop? 8 weeks for longer ether than prop isnt enough

what is it dosed per ml?

[adamjames]

hi all

been researching the past few months and thought i would go with the standard cycle of test E at 500mg/wk for 12 weeks. but now i am considering running test prop at 500mg/wk for 8 weeks instead. i have never pinned before but i dont think the extra pinning would bother me(just gotta man up)
couple of questions i have are

1.is the prop pinning pains as bad as they say . my gear is going to be pharma grade if that makes a different.
2.would the 8wks of prop give the same results as 12wks of enan..
3.would i be right in saying that recovery would be easier from the 8wks of p than 12wks of e.
4.what are the main differences that i should consider before deciding.

i like the idea of a short cycle since its my first time and what to make recovery as quick/easy as possible. thanks in advance for your time

I just started my 1st cycle last friday done 4 injections so far, im running propionate at 420 mg EW and im pinning ED

i was crapping myself about injecting but its really not that bad, i felt sick and went dizzy after my first pin in the glute but that was because the needle was moving around all over the place, i quite look forward to my daily injections now, so far ive pinned both glutes, 1 thigh and 1 shoulder

the prop will work a lot faster which is a major bonus if you ask me im allready feeling more aggression and gone up a couple of pounds, strength has gone up aswell

im running it for 20 weeks using Rowlands slingshot method but most will advise you to run it for 10 weeks max with the propionate, depends what your goals are

[IRISH87]

I wouldnt advise taper on and off this is an old school method

you running 500mg of prop? 8 weeks for longer ether than prop isnt enough

what is it dosed per ml?

havent actually got it yet as i wont be starting for another few weeks. the brand of stuff is meant to be pretty good. whats the best mg per ml to get if i plan on pinning every second day?

[IRISH87]

I just started my 1st cycle last friday done 4 injections so far, im running propionate at 420 mg EW and im pinning ED

i was crapping myself about injecting but its really not that bad, i felt sick and went dizzy after my first pin in the glute but that was because the needle was moving around all over the place, i quite look forward to my daily injections now, so far ive pinned both glutes, 1 thigh and 1 shoulder

the prop will work a lot faster which is a major bonus if you ask me im allready feeling more aggression and gone up a couple of pounds, strength has gone up aswell

im running it for 20 weeks using Rowlands slingshot method but most will advise you to run it for 10 weeks max with the propionate, depends what your goals are

have you notice much pain from pnning? will you be pinning every day for 20 weeks?

[gettintherequick]

Personally i would def not use hcg throughout the cycle u will downregulate your bodies own ability to be stimulated to produce test. Keep hcg useage short and sweet imo again my theory applies use as little as possible to get the job done..i personally find hcg useage during the final 2 weeks effective im sure other ppl will disagree with me but certainly not on the point of running hcg throughout ur cycle..i just like to taper everything mate i feel it allows a progressive gradual transition for ur body to get used to instead of starting or stopping abruptely shocking ur body and probably stimulating large amounts of cortisol to eat away ur gains..if u were to taper i would extend the cycle to ten weeks allowing a gradual coming on period and a gradual coming off period test p will respond to tapering very well as it leaves the body rapidly whilst test e would not really require a taper as it leaves the body gradually over two weeks sort of a taper in itself really..

[DanB]

if its pharm grade you can name the brand, if its ugl you cant

50,75,100 are most common so i would go for 100mg, then that is 1.5ml eod to make 525mg per week or 1ml eod to make 350mg per week

but personally if i had choice between pharm grade at 75mg or ugl at 100, and money etc was no object then i would take the pharm grade and just shoot the extra volume or pin ed

[IRISH87]

its called alphapharma (from what i gather its pharm grade). ye id prefer to splash out and pay the extra coin for genuine gear.im not rich by any means but wanna use the best stuff i can get. its my body im messin with after all

[adamjames]

have you notice much pain from pnning? will you be pinning every day for 20 weeks?

no pain at all, no more than a slight pinch anyway. Im using 25 gauge needles on my glutes and 23 gauge everywhere else, the only place people have strongly advised me against pinning is the calves but ill be giving them a go later in the week to see what all the fuss is about

yeah 20 weeks ED pinning, thats 140 injections so thats why im switching the sites daily to avoid scar tissue buildup

[DanB]

yeah i think its indian pharm grade, could be wrong though

is your pct by same manufacturer?

[IRISH87]

dont know as my gear will be coming from a couple of different sources(a friend of mine is getting it all for me . i took your advice that you gave a few weeks ago and found everything in pharm grade. can i name the hcg brand?

[DanB]

yeah think all hcg is pharm grade anyway lol

and yeah your better off with pharm grade mate, i know from first hand experience how much crap floats around these shores

[IRISH87]

just making sure my stuff is good. its called Oregon(spelling)

[IRISH87]

Personally i would def not use hcg throughout the cycle u will downregulate your bodies own ability to be stimulated to produce test. Keep hcg useage short and sweet imo again my theory applies use as little as possible to get the job done..i personally find hcg useage during the final 2 weeks effective im sure other ppl will disagree with me but certainly not on the point of running hcg throughout ur cycle..i just like to taper everything mate i feel it allows a progressive gradual transition for ur body to get used to instead of starting or stopping abruptely shocking ur body and probably stimulating large amounts of cortisol to eat away ur gains..if u were to taper i would extend the cycle to ten weeks allowing a gradual coming on period and a gradual coming off period test p will respond to tapering very well as it leaves the body rapidly whilst test e would not really require a taper as it leaves the body gradually over two weeks sort of a taper in itself really..

ye ill look into tapering but i really had my mind set on the hcg going on swiftos recommendations

[gettintherequick]

Everything is faked mate especially pharma grade doesnt mean it wont work tho..most ugl are faked to but alot are also overdosed due to a competative market..u wont know til ur a few weeks in to ur cycle

[Sgt. Hartman]

ye ill look into tapering but i really had my mind set on the hcg going on swiftos recommendations

Good thinking. Tapering is an ignorant outdated technique and small amounts (250iu) of HCG a couple times per week on cycle will not desensitize the testes and will aid greatly in a full HPTA recovery.

[DanB]

ye ill look into tapering but i really had my mind set on the hcg going on swiftos recommendations

Dont bother with tapering mate, its not common practise anymore, you can come to your own conclusion why majority of people dont bother with it

[gettintherequick]

Swifto is much more educated than i am on the subject i just use logic and a few articles i have read that say prolonged use of hcg 4+ weeks is not recommended..but again jus my opinion pal u will find ur feet an see wat works best for you

[IRISH87]

ok thanks guys. ill post up my proposed cycle in a months time and you can tell what you think. reckon ill probably go with prop now but ill continue to do my research

[gettintherequick]

Good job man best of luck

[JonnyConcrete]

Personally I'm gonna run Test P instead of E for my first cycle because

1) No need for a kickstart/ frontload
2) Don't have to wait 5 weeks for gains in you don't kickstart
3) Supposedly less bloat with P
4) I'll get to experiement which injection sites work for me, so I know for later cycles.

I just can't decide whether to pin ED or EOD

[nilrac]

pinning everyday for a first cycle... i wouldn't advise it. at all.

[cebby1985]

Whats w the talk about different esters of test bloating you more than others?!

[DamageDealer]

Whats w the talk about different esters of test bloating you more than others?!

it's believed that prop gives less bloat than e or cyp. not sure whether it's true, but some people i've spoken to indeed told me about way less bloat from prop. they were lean as hell when they cycled, though

[JonnyConcrete]

it's believed that prop gives less bloat than e or cyp. not sure whether it's true, but some people i've spoken to indeed told me about way less bloat from prop. they were lean as hell when they cycled, though

I agree, also from from first hand experience of seeing people in the gym. People on test C or E seem to bloat up and gain a lot of water. However I've never asked them if they are using an AI to combat this.

[cebby1985]

it's believed that prop gives less bloat than e or cyp. not sure whether it's true, but some people i've spoken to indeed told me about way less bloat from prop. they were lean as hell when they cycled, though

That myth can be smashed to pieces mainly w diet. Just like winny shreds you. Try it w high bf% and bad diet

[cebby1985]

I agree, also from from first hand experience of seeing people in the gym. People on test C or E seem to bloat up and gain a lot of water. However I've never asked them if they are using an AI to combat this.

Just about 99% of ppl i know who cycle wont do it right and w a poor diet. The one guy i know who dies it right is absolutely shredded wheat using cyp or e as his base.