New Member
Started Prami about 2 weeks ago. It has helped my sleep. I am on tren A 300mg a week, along with
Prop and Proviron.
I am taking .25mg a day, at night.
The first night I took to much and got very sick. Thought I was dying. I took about a teaspoon of it.
The stuff is very potent.
Banned
hrmm, might be worth looking into, they discontinued benadryl night time here in oz.
Banned
Dude..... A teaspoon really, what the fk gave u that idea lol that's approx 5ml. How is ur Prami dosed 1mg/ml? That's about the amount I've been advised to use over about 4weeks.Originally Posted by nazztyz06
New Member
The bottle had no directions on it, and I did not do a search on dosage. So I learned the hard way. It was a scary lesson.
It is 1mg/ml.
Banned
lol, ****ing prami hate that ****ing shit
Banned
Lol good lesson in life, if you don't know the answer.... GOOGLE!
Banned
A teaspoon!!! Holy sh!t dude! I had a nasty little episode with Prami about 10 or so days ago, my BP plummeted & I almost passed out, & that was only on a .125 dose, I cant even fathom the idea of a teaspoon full!!!!! I have since learned that Prolactin can be effectively controlled with nothing more than the same AI you use on cycle to combat Gyno., so I don't use Prami. anymore. A hard lesson learned is even harder to forget.................
Banned
why not run dosinex, cabergoline is a great drug. please look into the whole estrogen controls prolactin debate. cause prolactin gyno is very different from estrogen gyno, be safe
Associate Member
Prolactin gyno differs from estrogen gyno!......**learns something new every day**
Banned
Originally posted by Swifto:...... "Research the Long Feedback Mechanism.
Anything that raises estrogen or interacts with the ER can raise PRL. So you can get raised PRL from Dbol, Test derived androgens and Anadrol.
Progesterone is not a problem in regards to breast tissue growth when using 19-Nors as I will point out once you post your evidence "Tamoxifen makes gyno worse when used with progestins".
AI's will lower levels of PRL because they reduce estrogen, so Letro is not a wrong choice at all. In fact, seeing as its one of the more powerful AI's available, its the best choice. But that doesnt take into account its reductions in IGF, lipid impact, etc... So I suggest Exemestane. It always worries me when a "reseach chem sponsor" doesnt understand these misconceptions."
Banned
ask Your endo, i have. but if you always choose to disagree with everything i say. ok then
Banned
I didn't disagree with you, you disagreed with me, & then I supported my claim.................no need to pout.........
Banned
cause swifto in every post says take stane for everything. i think hes a drug rep pushing stane. Ask a real dr.
Banned
Do the fvcking research then genius, I provided you with the exact phrase to punch into Google or your search engine of choice. Swifto has supporting studies...................what do you have...............
Welcome to the Good Life
research my friend.. research..
maybe he recommends stane because it's easier on your lipid profile, or maybe because it doesn't fvck with your libido as much as others.. or maybe just because it's not as toxic on your body.. or maybe because other AI's have a slight impact on lowering IGF-1 levels, while stane has been proven to have no effect
What kind of rep recommends using research chems? guess he enjoys being broke if that's the case
Give this a read.. you'll learn something
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n-cycle-Swifto
Last edited by jasc; 04-26-2012 at 08:02 AM.
Banned
it was online sarcasm.
Productive Member
We may experience different symptoms associated with the swelling of the nipple area, but there are not different forms of Gynecomastia associated with prolactin vs. estrogen. Your Endocrinologist was probably being vague and referring to symptoms rather than the actual abnormality that is gyno, or - god forbid we understand this notion about a medical doctor - he was wrong.
Productive Member
So is there a difference between online sarcasm and in-person sarcasm?
Banned
lolcats
Productive Member
Banned
cabergoline can be run year round for ever with nothing but positive sides.
You cant run stane year round, and it has negative sides and good sides.
YOu could be very well right about my dr. an what he said, the onset of teh gyno can be different and needs to be treated for what causedd it or it will come back.
just get your nipples cut out by a body mod so much simpler.
swifto educates people on the importance of AI's, ive probably read most of his important threads. But i stand behind teh believe that running an ai just to run it isnt the best idea. people flame me for it, but not one person so far has gone to ronnie and said anything to him in his sticky thread that his advice he gives out on dont run an ai unless you need to. Is shit advice
Banned
i can pull outt heaps of backing info but people dont want the truth, the wanna argue . pick their battles and stay away from teh truth.
Welcome to the Good Life
noones trying to argue with you.. we just ask that you support your claims with some type of evidence when they conflict what other respected members have said. Swifto backs all of his claims with medical studies, that's why people trust his advice... it's not a pissing contest, we're all after the truth so we can be as safe as possible.
Does everyone need an AI on every cycle? maybe not, but the only way to really know is bloodwork and most ppl don't get bw often enough to truly know what's going on. It has been proven that elevated estrogen is hazardous in males, that's why it's better to be cautious n use a low dose AI than to do nothin.
Productive Member
If you've cycled with test/deca/etc. without using an AI and did not become frustrated with water retention, depression, acne, or gyno, that only further drives home the point that we are all just a little different physiologically, and I can't argue with you over whether or not you did the right thing. Of course, like jasc pointed out, the only true way to know if you've had potentially dangerous levels of estrogen floating around in your body is through blood work, and without that we have to rely on symptoms of a more obvious nature. Personally, I am terribly susceptive to bloating, acne and depression while on a cycle of anything that aromatizes, but all of these symptoms are very easily avoided by taking low doses of Arimidex on a consistent basis, and so I recommend the same. And of course Swifto's medical research has driven this preference home even further, so I'm of the mindset that taking an AI while on is a no-brainer. But again, if you don't have these problems and are comfortable with the risk associated with the carcinogenic nature of estrogen, then by all means, stick with what you're doing now. My point is simply that the logic surrounding the use of an AI while on cycle compels me, along with many others, to make the same recommendation. And on the note of Rowland's cycle outlines, I assumed that he wrote that without the knowledge that we now have of AI's, as AI's and SERMs are still relatively new on the scene.
Banned
That's the second or third time I've seen you spew that BS, NOBODY has EVER suggested "running an ai just to run it", you ignorantly repeating this leads me to believe you have not read Swifto's thread, or you would know, it has never been suggested to run an AI for the hell of it. However, if you can post even a single instance of someone suggesting the use of an AI "just to run it", I will apologize & retract my post(s).
Banned
its to be run to lower estrogen,i get that.
Banned
That's just a drop in the bucket man. Read the thread...............
Banned
you're beating a dead horse., its been read more then once. Its a stand up article. I , me, my OPINION is i dont run an ai unless i get very bad sides and to people i train, i dont suggest it either. I see the merit in both dropping yoru estrogen levels and waiting for sides to take effect.
I like to know how my body reacts to each compounds, im not a summer juicer and i will be juicing for life. I keep it it on hand, and if signs of gyno show up i will run it. Same with my bloating, acne, libido etc. I get regular blood work done, so i use this as my tool to monitor how im going. Sure the idea of running stane 10mg ed to drop estrogen and losing bloat and back acne is great but im fine with both and so far neither are life threating. as long as my e2 levels stay with in range. Im pro caber, cause its changed me and made me a happier person and i love it. Im weary of drugs i cant run for long periods of time, especially stane or any AI. Every person reacts differently to ai's for me and what ive found to work is dont run it unless things get out of control. u can sit here all day arguing and saying swifto knows best, i dont denied he has some great informed write ups. I just dont agree with always running an ai with every cycle, cause estrogen sides are way worse then having no estrogen. THATS ME, THATS MY OPINION
Banned- Scammer!
You should look into why I suggest using AI's on cycle... If you have already, read it again and again until you get it, maybe once wasn't enough.
My opinion is backed on facts.
Would you please explain to me what GOOD having estrogen in supraphysiological doses does when using aromotasable compounds, or anything that elevated estrogen above normal ranges.
When you inject 500-600mg of Test Enan and put total testosterone at 2-3,000ng/dl, what do you think happens to serum levels of circulating estrogen clever clogs?
Banned- Scammer!
Please state to me where I have advised having "no estrogen" when using an AI on cycle?
Clearly you're finding it hard to read and comprehend my articles aren't you? Well, you are.
Banned
its not stemmed from your article, i know running the the stane at 10, alows you to have a good amount of estrogen still. You're not suiciding it to zero. It stems from when i suggest having adex or stane, letro on hand but not running it untill u know how you react to test or the compound your running. People say its bad advice and always run an ai during a cycle.
Banned
Maybe i spend to much time listening to, too many people like teh pro amatures or ex pros at my gym even my endo. and the likes of authorities on the topic online. Sometimes info get replaced or discredited, but people here still follow Anthony's drug profiles like the end all of good info, heck people here rather argue with my that myostatin doesn't exist instead of learning there is better ways to cycle then just running a straight 10-12 week cycle.
i have to problem learning and understanding maybe my views are wrong or i was miss informed by someone who i consider a trusted source. As i stated before , maybe someone should go post in Ronnies thread or pm and suggest that he stop telling people not to run an ai unless they need to due to sides appearing.
Learning how to follow blood work over a message board and listening to your body instead of following a cookie cutter cycle is something i believe new users should hear about.
And im doing my due diligence to learn more this relationship between estrogen levels controlling prolactin . This stuff excites me, i do it for a living and ill never stop trying to learn.
VET
Then you should post up your heaps of backing info.
Estrogen is a carcinogen and will be elevated above reference range when running any significant amounts of testosterone, whether you have any E sides or not. I've never read anything stating that estrogen levels above reference range are beneficial in any way to gaining lbm. If you have contrary info then post it up. Even if extremely elevated E levels do promote muscle gain (which they don't) would it be worth getting prostate cancer over?
And I would also love to hear you or your endo's explanation of how exactly prolactin alone can cause a male to develop new breast tissue in the absence of estrogen.
Banned
I was referring to a previous thread about myostatin. And im not sure if info from people like bill roberts or dr scally are even aloud to be linked or posted here.
I understand how estrogen can be dangerous... I GET IT, but i get my e2 levels and everything tested and monitor it , yes if ur way out of wack you need to combat that. My argument is that dont just run the ai as a cookie cutter cycle. U need to know what happening to your body . I stay in good levels while on gear but off im a bit hit and miss why i run very low dose of letro to control that off gear, because it sits me in teh safe range of normal.
Hey im interested to find out more about this prolactin issue, like i said ive been told this back since teh day when old fina was all teh rave so its kinda been imprinted... It could be very well what the above poster said about his theory of my dr's explanation, he is a dinosaur of a doctor and could be crazy. I just thought i could trust his advice when asking questions.
This is good, i love to learn so maybe all of this will teach me or update some very out dated info stuck in my thick skull.
Banned
cleared up my confusion about the prolactin and estrogen connection, tamoxifen with regard to prolactin, interestingly it acts as a weak estrogen agonist (in other words, like an estrogen) with regards to prolactin production. where an ai like stane or letro wouldnt .
cookies 0
science 1
New Member
ill give another instance between estrodial and prolactin ive jus have had bloods for low test an came back free t260 prolactin 147 miu/l an E2 was 48 can not memba the reading on this might been ng/l but as soon as i started trt my test is back up to 800 odd an estro is in check but prolactin is higher ive had mri scan an have had no issue with prolactinomas but what i carnt understand is if my E2 is ok how does my prolatin keep rising doesnt E bring prolactin up with it??? or can some people jus have slightly higher lactrophins released than other thanks to anyone that could give a little bit of light here for me...
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote