Why get BF% down before cycle?

[Coolhand5599]

A lot of us non pros are curious, why do you pros and vets always say get BF% down before cycle?

[The Bear 79]

To lessen the likelihood & severity of estrogen related side effects, as well as to lessen the danger / risk of heart attack or stroke due to high blood pressure, which most generally is also associated with high body fat.

[cebby1985]

All of what bear said and for the simple fact that there's no point of putting on muscle when its covered in fat and you can't see it. In reality 5 minutes is all it takes to figure up calorie needs and the only reason ppl walk around at 20+% bf is due to plain laziness and lack of self control. Why waste what you're doing in the gym by eating bad

[The Bear 79]

All of what bear said and for the simple fact that there's no point of putting on muscle when its covered in fat and you can't sessions it. In reality 5 minutes is all it takes to figure up calorie needs and the only reason ppl walk around at 20+% bf is due to plain laziness and lack of self control. Why waste what you're doing in the gum by eating bad

lol.........someone's typing on a phone.......

[cebby1985]

lol.........someone's typing on a phone.......

Lol its my phablet haha. My phone/tablet. For smart phones. They can make one sound dumb. But i edited it lol

[DeadlyD]

All of what bear said and for the simple fact that there's no point of putting on muscle when its covered in fat and you can't sessions it. In reality 5 minutes is all it takes to figure up calorie needs and the only reason ppl walk around at 20+% bf is due to plain laziness and lack of self control. Why waste what you're doing in the gum by eating bad

I agree to an extent, but not everybody cycles to get a 6pack! Powerlifters use AAS for strength, a lot of those with BF in the 20's, these people can still be healthy they may just have to monitor them selves more closely!

[Coolhand5599]

To lessen the likelihood & severity of estrogen related side effects, as well as to lessen the danger / risk of heart attack or stroke due to high blood pressure, which most generally is also associated with high body fat.

You are always helpful, thank you. I am at 20% 7 weeks into my Deca , test, HGH cycle. Just went to Dr. And my BP is still perfect. Even when I was 30lbs fater my BP was great.

[The Bear 79]

That's a Galaxy right? I have the Galaxy SII, I love it. That Phablet is ridiculous though, how do you fit it in your pocket???LOL

[The Bear 79]

You are always helpful, thank you. I am at 20% 7 weeks into my Deca, test, HGH cycle. Just went to Dr. And my BP is still perfect. Even when I was 30lbs fater my BP was great.

Its not difficult to lose 5% bro. Just a tweak in cals & increased cardio, you'll be there in no time.

[cebby1985]

That's a Galaxy right? I have the Galaxy SII, I love it. That Phablet is ridiculous though, how do you fit it in your pocket???LOL

Yea its the galaxy note. Love the thing. I have a hard time using my wifes. Iphone 4s. Screw siri she's a dumb broad anyhow haha. And i don't put it in my pocket cuz it makes my pants fall down lol. I just flaunt it around haha

[cebby1985]

I agree to an extent, but not everybody cycles to get a 6pack! Powerlifters use AAS for strength, a lot of those with BF in the 20's, these people can still be healthy they may just have to monitor them selves more closely!

I used to be a "fat power lifter " and used aas. Then i really got outta shape. Got back in shape and dieted down and now Im almost as strong at 260ish as i was at 320ish but lb for lb a lot stronger. And even at 308 i was #2 in 09 raw power rankings so my numbers at that weight were still great but even better new at a lighter weight. Carrying fat around is pointless even if you are healthy the added weight is tough on your joints and heart.

[Coolhand5599]

Its not difficult to lose 5% bro. Just a tweak in cals & increased cardio, you'll be there in no time.

I found a great app for tracking what I eat. Over the last few days I have been 250-280 protine and 2800 - 3800 cal. I do 45 min on elipitical 5 day a week on top of lifting. I have not lost or gained a pound in 5 months. I am wearing it much different. Outside my three main meals I am getting a snack every 2 hours ie shake, nuts, Greek yogurt or soy beans. What should my intake be? I never drink soda or alcohol, only water sometimes milk or fresh oj

[cebby1985]

Hit up the diet section and use the formula to.calculate tdee. Your calories shouldn't vary that greatly from day to day.

[The Bear 79]

I agree to an extent, but not everybody cycles to get a 6pack! Powerlifters use AAS for strength, a lot of those with BF in the 20's, these people can still be healthy they may just have to monitor them selves more closely!

I never understood why its acceptable to have a gut just because you're a "power lifter". I cant stand that lazy cop out bull sh!t. I cycle for strength too, both for work & because I plan to compete in Strongman comp next summer but for me, anything over 12% is unacceptable & uncomfortable.

[The Bear 79]

I found a great app for tracking what I eat. Over the last few days I have been 250-280 protine and 2800 - 3800 cal. I do 45 min on elipitical 5 day a week on top of lifting. I have not lost or gained a pound in 5 months. I am wearing it much different. Outside my three main meals I am getting a snack every 2 hours ie shake, nuts, Greek yogurt or soy beans. What should my intake be? I never drink soda or alcohol, only water sometimes milk or fresh oj

Well it sounds like your on the right track honestly. If you weight is not changing on the scale, but your "wearing it differently" as you say, then that means you are loosing as much fat as you are putting on muscle.................if that makes sense.

[cebby1985]

I never understood why its acceptable to have a gut just because you're a "power lifter". I cant stand that lazy cop out bull sh!t. I cycle for strength too, both for work & because I plan to compete in Strongman comp next summer but for me, anything over 12% is unacceptable & uncomfortable.

Im with ya. After being a fat power lifter to a plain down fat a$$ to being able to bench and deadlift (been squatting and.hitting legs for volume) what i do w a decent little 4pack and for a 2 mile run or 15 mile bike ride to me is easy. All it takes is self control. And he'll Im still eating -800cal per day.

[< <Samson> >]

I never understood why its acceptable to have a gut just because you're a "power lifter". I cant stand that lazy cop out bull sh!t. I cycle for strength too, both for work & because I plan to compete in Strongman comp next summer but for me, anything over 12% is unacceptable & uncomfortable.

You know your shit, but do the math on their #'s.


But, for the other 98% you will be better off under 15% for sure. I am fatter than usual since my bulk is crap, but I am gaining muscle at a 50/50 rate. I need to shape up, I hear but don't listen. It's hard, for me at least and, I'm happy that it is still working.

Plus, if you cycle when you are fat. You will stay fat for a long while after the cycle since you can't cut for quite a while. Unless you want your muscle lost. - Shit I learned.

I started at under 15% and 185Lbs. now I'm at 20% and 215Lbs.

P.S. All laptop here, sold the iPad. Laptop is still way better. Just more "old school" now. . . . lol

[cebby1985]

You know your shit, but do the math on their #'s.

But, for the other 98% you will be better off under 15% for sure. I am fatter than usual since my bulk is crap, but I am gaining muscle at a 50/50 rate. I need to shape up, I hear but don't listen. It's hard, for me at least and, I'm happy that it is still working.

Plus, if you cycle when you are fat. You will stay fat for a long while after the cycle since you can't cut for quite a while. Unless you want your muscle lost. - Shit I learned.

I started at under 15% and 185Lbs. now I'm at 20% and 215Lbs.

P.S. All laptop here, sold the iPad. Laptop is still way better. Just more "old school" now. . . . lol

Here's my.numbers 495x5 and 565lb competition bench max raw at 325ish and.i would drastically.cut water weight to make 308. I was 22 and.cycled. Heavily. Basically.the poster child of what not to do lol. Now at 26 and.after only seriously hitting the gym since.Sept Im 262 w out cutting any weight and running a lower dose trend a and test p 100mg eod cycle and got 500x2 and also pulled 675 Fri while my best pull before was 705.

These.guys that walk around w high.bf% just don't watch what they eat. Im not saying every 300lb er is fat but high bf is high.bf

[DeadlyD]

I never understood why its acceptable to have a gut just because you're a "power lifter". I cant stand that lazy cop out bull sh!t. I cycle for strength too, both for work & because I plan to compete in Strongman comp next summer but for me, anything over 12% is unacceptable & uncomfortable.

Relax bear, I just said there's a lot of people who do and stay healthy, I personally am on the track to sub 12% my self, and I do agree that 15% is a good starting point!

[cebby1985]

Relax bear, I just said there's a lot of people who do and stay healthy, I personally am on the track to sub 12% my self, and I do agree that 15% is a good starting point!

I dint think he was too mad. But i hear it all the time about you can't lose weight w out losing strength or i need this extra cals. Etc etc. When in reality you can.just cut back on the pizza and beer and watch what you eat.

[< <Samson> >]

I dint think he was too mad. But i hear it all the time about you can't lose weight w out losing strength or i need this extra cals. Etc etc. When in reality you can.just cut back on the pizza and beer and watch what you eat.

It's true, you do not need the fat weight to be damn strong.

[DeadlyD]

It's true, you do not need the fat weight to be damn strong.

I don't think anyone implied that! And ofcourse you don't need the extra fat, I'm just saying not EVERYONE wants to be sub 10% BF everyone goals are different.....me I want to be huge ripped and strong as fvck!!! Hehe

[big88sub]

I found a great app for tracking what I eat. Over the last few days I have been 250-280 protine and 2800 - 3800 cal. I do 45 min on elipitical 5 day a week on top of lifting. I have not lost or gained a pound in 5 months. I am wearing it much different. Outside my three main meals I am getting a snack every 2 hours ie shake, nuts, Greek yogurt or soy beans. What should my intake be? I never drink soda or alcohol, only water sometimes milk or fresh oj

Are all your snacks and protein shakes in that 3800 cals? If not that's your problem. All your snacks protein shakes everything you eat needs to be add as a calorie intake. If your trying to cut your bf you need to figure out your bmr( basal metabolic rate) your dt( diet-induced calorie burn) and at( activity induced calorie burn). Figuring these out will tell you how's many calories you need everyday just to stay at your current weight. If you want to cut you need to adjust your diet to stay below this number and still excersizes to burn even more cals and drop weight faster.

[big88sub]

I found a great app for tracking what I eat. Over the last few days I have been 250-280 protine and 2800 - 3800 cal. I do 45 min on elipitical 5 day a week on top of lifting. I have not lost or gained a pound in 5 months. I am wearing it much different. Outside my three main meals I am getting a snack every 2 hours ie shake, nuts, Greek yogurt or soy beans. What should my intake be? I never drink soda or alcohol, only water sometimes milk or fresh oj

Are all your snacks and protein shakes in that 3800 cals? If not that's your problem. All your snacks protein shakes everything you eat needs to be add as a calorie intake. If your trying to cut your bf you need to figure out your bmr( basal metabolic rate) your dt( diet-induced calorie burn) and at( activity induced calorie burn). Figuring these out will tell you how's many calories you need everyday just to stay at your current weight. If you want to cut you need to adjust your diet to stay below this number and still excersizes to burn even more cals and drop weight faster.

[The Bear 79]

Are all your snacks and protein shakes in that 3800 cals? If not that's your problem. All your snacks protein shakes everything you eat needs to be add as a calorie intake. If your trying to cut your bf you need to figure out your bmr( basal metabolic rate) your dt( diet-induced calorie burn) and at( activity induced calorie burn). Figuring these out will tell you how's many calories you need everyday just to stay at your current weight. If you want to cut you need to adjust your diet to stay below this number and still excersizes to burn even more cals and drop weight faster.

I don't believe he ever stated he had a problem. In fact he said he's making progress.

[coldfear]

I can say from experience that everytime I've cycled at a low bf even with tren , drol etc I've had very little sides. when I first started cycling I was into powerlifting and didnt really care how i looked and was above 20% bf a simple test e cycle at 500mg a week gave me high bp, nosebleeds headaches and general feelings of lethargy and unhealthiness. I'm a firm believer in being leaner is the way to go when cycling

[Bulkn]

I never understood why its acceptable to have a gut just because you're a "power lifter". I cant stand that lazy cop out bull sh!t. I cycle for strength too, both for work & because I plan to compete in Strongman comp next summer but for me, anything over 12% is unacceptable & uncomfortable.

Are you a debt collector mr bear?

[The Bear 79]

Are you a debt collector mr bear?

LOL, no, but I know what you're getting at lol. My father was though, when he came here from Sicily as a teenager, he was 5'-7" & just as wide, solid, shredded muscle from scalp to toe, with grizzly bear sized paws. "The Family" thought what better position for such a tank..........lol. He was very "effective" from what my uncles & cousins tell me.

[Matt]

To lessen the likelihood & severity of estrogen related side effects, as well as to lessen the danger / risk of heart attack or stroke due to high blood pressure, which most generally is also associated with high body fat.

Although i agree high bp can be an issue when cycling with higher bf its an absolute myth stating erse can be an issue. Almost all bbers amateur and pro suffer erse even at 6%-10% bf....

[The Bear 79]

I have a lot of respect for you Matt, but that's just nonsense. So its a myth that obesity increases aromatase activity? And body fat produces the Aromatase enzyme responsible for Gyno...........that's a myth too? This is simple common sense, The Aromatase enzyme converts androgens to estrogens, higher body fat = higher Aromatase enzyme, more Aromatase enzyme = greater likelihood & severity of Estrogen related side effects.

[Matt]

I have a lot of respect for you Matt, but that's just nonsense. So its a myth that obesity increases aromatase activity? And body fat produces the Aromatase enzyme responsible for Gyno...........that's a myth too? This is simple common sense, The Aromatase enzyme converts androgens to estrogens, higher body fat = higher Aromatase enzyme, more Aromatase enzyme = greater likelihood & severity of Estrogen related side effects.

Did we not have this conversation before mate in this link, its broscience unless you can find me studies saying otherwise....

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=#post5835997

[The Bear 79]

Yes Sir, I remember, but like you said, "you cant argue with logic", & while Magic's points are indeed logical, they are nothing more than an extended list of the various causes of Gyno. however, conveniently, I see nothing about the role the Aromatase enzyme plays in creating excess estrogen. I see nothing disproving my claim. Further more, is it not "logical" that "the Aromatase enzyme converts androgens to estrogens, higher body fat = higher Aromatase enzyme, more Aromatase enzyme = greater likelihood & severity of Estrogen related side effects."?

[Matt]

And with some the myth continues............

Im wrong, magic is wrong, thousands of amateur and professional bbers are all wrong who use ai's in the fight against erse every day......

Just think of it this way, if i run 1000mgs of test weekly at 5% bf along side another guy also running 1000mgs of test weekly but at 20% bf, guess what, eventually we will both suffer from erse. There is no evidence any where what so ever and never has been to suggest the guy with the 20% bf would suffer any more than i with 5%..........

[Awesome_Archy]

I never understood why its acceptable to have a gut just because you're a "power lifter". I cant stand that lazy cop out bull sh!t. I cycle for strength too, both for work & because I plan to compete in Strongman comp next summer but for me, anything over 12% is unacceptable & uncomfortable.

Do you alternate cycles based on size goals and strengths goals? Once cycle for size then next for strength or do you go for both at the same time?

[Rwy]

If I am going to cycle I want to be a at certain point in order to look my best while on.

Nothing worse then the bloated fat juicer

[FONZY007]

If I am going to cycle I want to be a at certain point in order to look my best while on.

Nothing worse then the bloated fat juicer

True that lol

[The Bear 79]

Do you alternate cycles based on size goals and strengths goals? Once cycle for size then next for strength or do you go for both at the same time?

No, I don't believe in "bulking cycles" & "cutting cycles", they're all the same, you're either on cycle or off, your diet is the definitive factor in bulk & / or cut.

[The Bear 79]

And with some the myth continues............

Im wrong, magic is wrong, thousands of amateur and professional bbers are all wrong who use ai's in the fight against erse every day......

Just think of it this way, if i run 1000mgs of test weekly at 5% bf along side another guy also running 1000mgs of test weekly but at 20% bf, guess what, eventually we will both suffer from erse. There is no evidence any where what so ever and never has been to suggest the guy with the 20% bf would suffer any more than i with 5%..........

So apparently you CAN argue with logic............IF................it doesn't suit your cause or fit your beliefs. I see no supporting evidence on your end either Matt, so I vote to just let it die, because I'm tired of endless circular arguments that will never accomplish anything. Your opinions & advice hold a lot of water with me, but with this, I am not on board. Sorry.

[AD]

this is from wiki, clearly not a scientific paper, but just as a quick read.

Activity

Factors known to increase aromatase activity include age, obesity, insulin, gonadotropins, smoking and alcohol. Aromatase activity is decreased by prolactin, anti-Müllerian hormone, and zinc. Aromatase activity appears to be enhanced in certain estrogen-dependent local tissue next to breast tissue, endometrial cancer, endometriosis, and uterine fibroids.

[Coolhand5599]

You guys all must type real good and be a much better speller than me I guess I am doing pretty for a dyslexic hunt and peck guy. All the info is very appreciated. Bear and Matt have always been helpful. Thank you