"Well informed newb", looking for suggestions on 1st cycle.

[WannaBeHyooge]

Hello all,

As the title suggests, i'd like to consider myself a well informed newb on the topic of AAS. I have no personal experience with AAS, but have done a lot of reading over the past few years and think that I might be ready for a cycle. Although I'll let the guru's of this site be the deciding factor on that.

With that in mind, here are my stats.

6'2
24 Years old, will be 25 when/if I start a cycle.
190 lbs
Been as low as 9.77% BF, currently around 11% and going down.
Training 4 years

Diet has been on point for years, I'm always reading nutrition articles and interested in learning more information.

Originally I thought a cycle of oral anavar would be a good starting point, but it seems the consensus on this board as well as many others is that...

"Oral only cycles are shit"
"Man the F up, pin to win"
"Use test for your first cycle"

Now the reason I felt Anavar would work well, is because of the minimal mass gains. The reason that appeals to me is I do not want the "Oh that guy is definitely on some sh*t" look, and I do not have support from anyone on this so I'm looking to fly under the radar to a certain extent.

My aim is a MAXIMUM of 10lb net gain which on my frame will certainly still be quite noticeable. I've had friends who have done 1st cycles and gained 35lbs, and kept 25.. that's WAY too much. For me anyways.

I'm looking for something that will give me a modest amount of dry gains that I can hold on to. In effect, the last thing I want to do is go on a cycle that produces massive gains, only to lose the bulk of them thus leading to . "Oh he was definitely on some sh*t and now he's small again".

***SO... after all that, here is what I really want to know.***

What, in all of your opinions, is the best compound for me to start with for "small" gains that are going to stick around? I don't have a problem with pinning.

During cycle.. if your suggestions are to do a small dose of test for a first cycle are Clomid, nolva, etc all necessary to have on hand? I really want this to go smoothly so would you suggest having everything or is that overkill? And what about HCG , a lot of stickies i've read have specific PCT protocols as well as using these in addition to your test through the whole cycle. Necessary precaution?

Small dose of test? how small is too small? I want something thats going to give me a little more than a 8 week cycle of Anavar, but keeping the low risk aspect of it and I get the feeling that test is the way to do it. I just haven't found much information about "Low dose" test cycles for first timers.

Thanks in advance for all your input. And if after reading my post you think I should just head back to the stickies and search function I appreciate that advice too. :P

[gixxerboy1]

i would run test e at 300mg a week for 10-12 weeks
i would use a-dex on cycle starting .25mg 3 x a week
then 2 weeks after your last pinc start pct of nolva and clomid
watch your diet that is also going to determine how much you gain

[WannaBeHyooge]

That sounds great, thanks very much for your advice!

How much of a surplus can I go up to while on cycle? The last thing I want to do is put on a bunch of fat while adding muscle then having to cut down after my cycle.

[gixxerboy1]

everyone is different.
Do you you know your tdee now?

[WannaBeHyooge]

For me it's right around 3000 to stay where I am. RMR is around 1900 and with my activity level i'm close to that 3000 mark.

[WannaBeHyooge]

I guess what the other thing I'd like to know is what's typical of a 300mg/week test E cycle for someone at my weight (190) if they are eating at a moderate caloric surplus.

[SimplyFlawless]

300mg is a joke. Might as well stay natural if you are going to use barely anything.

[WannaBeHyooge]

300mg is a joke. Might as well stay natural if you are going to use barely anything.

Not sure whether you read my original post or not, but my goal is not to go through a virgin cycle and put on a crazy amount of poundage. I am looking for a small boost that won't scream "Roid monkey".

As I said, originally I was thinking about going down the Anavar road but that seems to get flamed by most people.

So if you think 300mg is a joke based on my goals. What else would you suggest?

[SimplyFlawless]

Not sure whether you read my original post or not, but my goal is not to go through a virgin cycle and put on a crazy amount of poundage. I am looking for a small boost that won't scream "Roid monkey".

As I said, originally I was thinking about going down the Anavar road but that seems to get flamed by most people.

So if you think 300mg is a joke based on my goals. What else would you suggest?

Sorry I missed that part. I don't think 500mg would make people scream roid monkey either. Most of the poundage gained will be water, but if you don't go overboard on eating, you can stay lean. I would suggest anavar tbh. Test will shut you down completely

[WannaBeHyooge]

Well that was what I was originally thinking, but the feedback is that Anavar is a waste of time and money. Maybe that's coming from people who are more advanced than me, as I said this is a virgin cycle for me.

Anavar won't shut me down at all?

[SimplyFlawless]

I don't know how far you are willing to go. You seem to want to play it very conservatively. If you don't mind shutting yourself down, then injectables is your best option. Also, you won't build muscle by accident. People don't gain 25lbs of muscle on a first cycle unless they mega dose a few different compounds. They confuse muscle with water and fat

[WannaBeHyooge]

Thats one of the things that scares me, and that i'm not interested in. I don't want a bunch of water weight that comes and goes. I'm interested in dry gains that are not even close to 25lbs. Like I said in OP, 10lbs MAX is what i'm after.

[SimplyFlawless]

this is what I would do. 100mg EOD of both test prop and tren ace

[Back In Black]

OP, running 2 compounds in a first cycle is not what is recommended by the vast majority of members on this board.

Ultimately your gains will be determined by diet and workout not just on the amount or strength of compounds that you use!

[songdog]

300mg is a joke. Might as well stay natural if you are going to use barely anything.

Well maybe you should teach Gix a thing or two.I would love to see this.The next time you open your mouth.Make sure you know more than the man you are calling out.And that isnt happening here.

[WannaBeHyooge]

I was wondering when another board member or two would jump in. Based on the knowledge of Gixxer i've seen in other threads I had a lot of faith in his advice.

The way I see it, 300mg/week of test E is going to be well over 3x my natural test production. So i'll definitely be experiencing some changes.

As far as my diet and training, I lift for strength and eat for size so if/when I do go on cycle, I'm assuming Ill just have to monitor how my body is reacting based on the amount of caloric surplus i'm taking in.

How much water weight should I expect to gain on a cycle of 300mg test E weekly?

[SimplyFlawless]

Well maybe you should teach Gix a thing or two.I would love to see this.The next time you open your mouth.Make sure you know more than the man you are calling out.And that isnt happening here.

You obviously didn't read my second post. And post a pic of him if you are so impressed by him. high post count doesn't equal superior physique all the time

[gixxerboy1]

this is what I would do. 100mg EOD of both test prop and tren ace

You obviously didn't read my second post. And post a pic of him if you are so impressed by him. high post count doesn't equal superior physique all the time

yea your recommending prop and tren for a first cycle of someone who want to stay concervitave. Yes you seem to be alot more knowledgeable then me

[gixxerboy1]

this is what I would do. 100mg EOD of both test prop and tren ace

You obviously didn't read my second post. And post a pic of him if you are so impressed by him. high post count doesn't equal superior physique all the time

yea your recommending prop and tren for a first cycle of someone who want to stay concervitave. Yes you seem to be alot more knowledgeable then me

[SimplyFlawless]

Why not tren and prop for a first cycle? Are you telling me he will max out by using tren from the start as opposed to using it later on?

[gixxerboy1]

this is what I would do. 100mg EOD of both test prop and tren ace

I was wondering when another board member or two would jump in. Based on the knowledge of Gixxer i've seen in other threads I had a lot of faith in his advice.

The way I see it, 300mg/week of test E is going to be well over 3x my natural test production. So i'll definitely be experiencing some changes.

As far as my diet and training, I lift for strength and eat for size so if/when I do go on cycle, I'm assuming Ill just have to monitor how my body is reacting based on the amount of caloric surplus i'm taking in.

How much water weight should I expect to gain on a cycle of 300mg test E weekly?

with a good diet and taking the ai i suggested the water weight should be kept to a minimum

[SimplyFlawless]

with a good diet and taking the ai i suggested the water weight should be kept to a minimum

AI's aren't always a good idea. They can mess up estrogen levels, especially on such mild cycles like 300mg test, which is only really double his natural test production. I prefer masteron for this purpose and it actually increases sex drive, unlike an AI which can do the opposite in some cases. AI's can also give someone the "flat" look. As you can tell, I am against AI's unless someone develops gyno

[< <Samson> >]

Really 300?

I have never heard this. . . Never heard any cycle recommendations bellow 400.



Why shut down for that?

Just from what I know.

[SimplyFlawless]

Really 300?

I have never heard this. . . Never heard any cycle recommendations bellow 400.



Why shut down for that?

Just from what I know.

Exactly. Taking the "safe" approach in this case makes no sense because you would be better off staying natural (Gains will be very underwhelming). If you are going to shut yourself down, make it count.

[MickeyKnox]

actually, there have been many reported cycles of people doing low doses of test (250-300) who have made decent gains, particularly those who are lean and new to AAS, and have their diet in check. in fact i believe there is a thread on here by Swifto (but don't quote me on the author) who wrote extensively about it.

having said that, i believe we all agree that the "magic number" appears to be 500/wk. but the OP clearly wants to do a mild cycle and also appears to be well read. so the advice given is reflective of his desires.

just my observation..

what ever you decide OP, good luck

[gixxerboy1]

Why not tren and prop for a first cycle? Are you telling me he will max out by using tren from the start as opposed to using it later on?

because tren is a 19 nor and also has some of the harshes side effects. He doesnt know how he react to any steroid . Since its a 1st cycle. So sticking to just test would be the safest idea. Also for a first cycle most people dont want to pin eod. Aslo if he starts to have issues its alot easier for us to diagnose and help if he is only take 1 new drug

[gixxerboy1]

Exactly. Taking the "safe" approach in this case makes no sense because you would be better off staying natural (Gains will be very underwhelming). If you are going to shut yourself down, make it count.

have you ever run a cycle of a low dose? Or are you just assuming. My first cycle was 250mg of test cyp every 5 days and i was very happy with the results

[gixxerboy1]

AI's aren't always a good idea. They can mess up estrogen levels, especially on such mild cycles like 300mg test, which is only really double his natural test production. I prefer masteron for this purpose and it actually increases sex drive, unlike an AI which can do the opposite in some cases. AI's can also give someone the "flat" look. As you can tell, I am against AI's unless someone develops gyno

actually ai's are always a good idea. As long as they are dosed properly.
Every post you make shows your lack of knowledge. Raised estro does alot more then just gyno

[FONZY007]

Simply flawless seems to me you are misguiding in a lot of threads, hope no one gets hurt from your input

[FONZY007]

Gix beat me to it!!

[bigga4068]

I agree whole heartedly with gix and fonzy, every post I have read from flawless is based on what his experience and opinion is not research and study. Dude its fine for you to feel the way you do about your body but when your advici g other what to do with theirs its a different responsibility. What your saying isnt necessarily false but it is however dangerous. Its like tell someone it ok to do meth becuz you have done it and was able to stop.

[SimplyFlawless]

because tren is a 19 nor and also has some of the harshes side effects. He doesnt know how he react to any steroid. Since its a 1st cycle. So sticking to just test would be the safest idea. Also for a first cycle most people dont want to pin eod. Aslo if he starts to have issues its alot easier for us to diagnose and help if he is only take 1 new drug

I'm just not a huge fan of test. I think it is much better run when HGH is involved since they are very synergistic. I think it should always be used at a minimum of 150mg just to have a test base and for sexual function. Tren doesn't really give me sides like it gives a lot of others but I feel like people are going to use tren anyway, so why wait? If they can't handle the sides, they shouldn't be using anything in the first place. Gyno and hair loss to me are really the only sides that are deal breakers.

have you ever run a cycle of a low dose? Or are you just assuming. My first cycle was 250mg of test cyp every 5 days and i was very happy with the results

I don't know what you would consider a low dose, but the first time I touched gear it was 490mg of test prop per week (70mg ED. yes I pinned every day). I put on a good amount of weight but I made the mistake of eating too much and so much was water. I was still happy overall with the results though of course. That is higher than 300mg of test-e since prop has more mg per mg.

actually ai's are always a good idea. As long as they are dosed properly.
Every post you make shows your lack of knowledge. Raised estro does alot more then just gyno

Yes dosed properly is the key. But they are highly overrated in general. As far as my lack of knowledge goes, please show me what you look like because I disagree with almost everything you have said. I'll be happy to post a pic of my own if you would like

[ata1979]

Not sure whether you read my original post or not, but my goal is not to go through a virgin cycle and put on a crazy amount of poundage. I am looking for a small boost that won't scream "Roid monkey".

As I said, originally I was thinking about going down the Anavar road but that seems to get flamed by most people.

So if you think 300mg is a joke based on my goals. What else would you suggest?

Most people flame Anavar cuz they haven't tried it or had different goals in mind from the gains you get from Anavar. I know the status-quo here is test first but I think that has to change. It should be Anavar or Test first. Anavar wont put on 15-20lbs of muscle but it will put on a rock hard 5 to 7lbs. It wont hold water so you will have a cut dry look. It wont give you gyno because it doesnt aromatize. You wont need Nolva or Arimadex. For most people clomid is enough for PCT cause Anavar doesnt shut you down as hard as Test. You keep alot more of your gains. It wont give you a body-builder look or as you said "roid-monkey" it will give you a fitness model look. It is moderately harsh on the liver. You will need to take milk thistle and liv-52 daily. It will not make you aggresive like test or tren would. You will lose minimal hair. Alotta guys here enjoy the body builder look so to them Anavar is pretty useless unless they cruise on it, thats why it gets bashed. But for athletes and people who are after a lighter leaner look Anavar is second to none.

[SimplyFlawless]

Most people flame Anavar cuz they haven't tried it or had different goals in mind from the gains you get from Anavar. I know the status-quo here is test first but I think that has to change. It should be Anavar or Test first. Anavar wont put on 15-20lbs of muscle but it will put on a rock hard 5 to 7lbs. It wont hold water so you will have a cut dry look. It wont give you gyno because it doesnt aromatize. You wont need Nolva or Arimadex. For most people clomid is enough for PCT cause Anavar doesnt shut you down as hard as Test. You keep alot more of your gains. It wont give you a body-builder look or as you said "roid-monkey" it will give you a fitness model look. It is moderately harsh on the liver. You will need to take milk thistle and liv-52 daily. It will not make you aggresive like test or tren would. You will lose minimal hair. Alotta guys here enjoy the body builder look so to them Anavar is pretty useless unless they cruise on it, thats why it gets bashed. But for athletes and people who are after a lighter leaner look Anavar is second to none.

I haven't used anavar because it's just too expensive to me. From all the guys I spoke with though, you really need to use high doses to get the most out of it. I'm talking 100-150mg per day. That adds up to a high price. Sure you can use less but the real magic starts at high doses

[gixxerboy1]

I'm just not a huge fan of test. I think it is much better run when HGH is involved since they are very synergistic. I think it should always be used at a minimum of 150mg just to have a test base and for sexual function. Tren doesn't really give me sides like it gives a lot of others but I feel like people are going to use tren anyway, so why wait? If they can't handle the sides, they shouldn't be using anything in the first place. Gyno and hair loss to me are really the only sides that are deal breakers.
The op never mentioned using tren you did. So since YOU feel everyone is going to use it you will recommend it to anyone even on s first cycle? Tren has a harsher sides so if someone cant handle tren sides they shouldnt use any aas at all?


I don't know what you would consider a low dose, but the first time I touched gear it was 490mg of test prop per week (70mg ED. yes I pinned every day). I put on a good amount of weight but I made the mistake of eating too much and so much was water. I was still happy overall with the results though of course. That is higher than 300mg of test-e since prop has more mg per mg.
Again so you have never tried a low dose cycle. So you are speaking from no actual experience. You said you put on a good amount of weight at 490mg. The op isnt looking for that.


Yes dosed properly is the key. But they are highly overrated in general. As far as my lack of knowledge goes, please show me what you look like because I disagree with almost everything you have said. I'll be happy to post a pic of my own if you would like

^^see bold

Can you please expelain to me why an ai is over rated. There are alot of threads with studies and medical facts on why they are important.

Right now i'm 5'6 bout 190 and 9% I dont understand why that matters, i have know aspirations of being a bb or ever getting on stage.

[WannaBeHyooge]

Didn't mean to start any sort of war of the minds here, but I can say that I really appreciate the input i'm getting from everyone here. These boards are super helpful.

As far as Tren is concerned, my friend did his first cycle with it so I know what it can do. And I can say that I want nothing to do with it.

Most people flame Anavar cuz they haven't tried it or had different goals in mind from the gains you get from Anavar. I know the status-quo here is test first but I think that has to change. It should be Anavar or Test first. Anavar wont put on 15-20lbs of muscle but it will put on a rock hard 5 to 7lbs. It wont hold water so you will have a cut dry look. It wont give you gyno because it doesnt aromatize. You wont need Nolva or Arimadex. For most people clomid is enough for PCT cause Anavar doesnt shut you down as hard as Test. You keep alot more of your gains. It wont give you a body-builder look or as you said "roid-monkey" it will give you a fitness model look. It is moderately harsh on the liver. You will need to take milk thistle and liv-52 daily. It will not make you aggresive like test or tren would. You will lose minimal hair. Alotta guys here enjoy the body builder look so to them Anavar is pretty useless unless they cruise on it, thats why it gets bashed. But for athletes and people who are after a lighter leaner look Anavar is second to none.

Bodybuilding is a little bit further than i'd like to go. At 6'2 190 and 11% BF i'm more of a fitness guy than bodybuilder so this is why I originally had Var in mind. After reading your post I don't feel so bad for considering it so thanks very much.

Although I must admit, i'm still confused and debating what or IF i should even cycle. I love the idea of another 5-10 of LBM but thats about it. Ideally I'd be 210 and 8% BF and not worry about getting bigger. Just stronger.

Thanks again everyone!

[WannaBeHyooge]

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