Just started 3 months of Test Cypionate (G star Labs) and HGH (Omnitrope)

[jgnyc]

Hello All!

First off I'm 29, 6 feet and currently 250 even, last measured body fat was around 26% (2 months ago). Back in 08 I was 314 pounds, I've dropped 64 pounds by changing my lifestyle, my ways of eating and also hitting it hard between cardio, lifting and crossfit (stopped the crossfit about 6 moths ago). I'm now focusing on putting on muscle while cutting fat in hopes of getting to 220-230 depending on how that weight looks on my frame, I'm a bit of a bigger guy.

That's a little background on where I've been and where I'd like to be. I just started my first cycle and I had my gear prescribed to me, the growth I was told is the highest grade available. I'm taking 1 iu of growth every day, 1 cc of the test split into .5cc shots twice a week. I also take HCG twice a week and anastrazole (pill) twice a week as well. As far as diet, I follow the Paleo diet very strictly, I have protein shakes once throughout the day and drink Casein at night before bed. I work out 6 days a week and have been hitting it very hard each session at the gym. I make sure to drink at least 12-14 glasses of water throughout the day and I also take the following vitamins: fish oil, B12, C & D. I've been focusing on getting plenty of rest and I have not been drinking alcohol or beer at all. I'm trying to not drink at all for the full 3 months, but if I do, I plan on keeping it to light beer and only a few if any.

My questions are: How long does it take to start seeing results from HGH and how long for the test? Should I also be taking milk thistle? I'm very detail oriented when it comes to these things and considering the transformation I'm working on with my body, I want to know is there anything I should be doing different? Anything I should add or take away from what I'm currently doing?

Thank you all in advance for your time. Your responses would be greatly appreciated and I'd be more than happy to post pictures and progress as things unfold!

[oscarjones]

Don't think you're supposed to have lab names posted here man.

HGH can take a while to see results, many months, in all honestly.

Also, post your diet in more detail, over in the diet section. Give us macro values and meal timing.

Honestly, I am not sure the Test dosage, but assuming it's somewhere around 200-250mg/mL then that's a bit low to be considered a real cycle. That's more like a typically high TRT dose for some guys.

You want to be at minimum 300mg/week and for a guy your size I'd recommend nothing less than 500mg/week if you're only using Test and HGH.

Edit: Just realized you said your gear was subscribed! That's great so you know it's legit. Peace of mind. However, is your prescription ongoing? Like TRT? If so, you could cruise and blast. Say 200-250mg/week Test to cruise and then every couple months blast for a bit at like 500-1000mg/week, etc etc..

Also, glad you're using hCG and Anastrozole. What are you dosing them at?

If you're NOT on TRT... what do you have planned for PCT? That's gonna be important.

[jgnyc]

My apologies for posting gear names, did not know that. I have no doubts of whether it's legit or not cause like I said it's prescribed and yes it is ongoing. The test is 250mg/ml and I'm taking 1 cc or 1 ml per week so figure I'm at 250mg per week. From what you're saying, that is more of like a cruising dose. I'm not looking to get tremendous, I want to put on muscle mass but not to where I blow up. Would you recommend increasing the dose still and if so to how much? I'm not familiar with what a TRT (testosterone repla***ent therapy?) is or PCT. I'm assuming the latter of the two is Post Cycle Therapy ? For those areas I'm looking to have my doctor give me what I need as it is part of the program with him. HCG is at 20 iu's twice a week and I will find out the dose on the anastozole and let you know.

I really appreciate you taking the time to reply. As for the diet, typical day consists of the following:

8am - 5 eggs scrambled
10am - protein shake with a banana in it
12-1pm - lunch always consists of a protein (ground turkey, grilled chicken, lean red meat) along with either steamed broccoli or steamed carrots/broccoli/coliflower mix
4pm - power crunch protein bar or another portion of protein and vegetables
7pm - dinner consists of 8-10 oz of protein (red meat, chicken, turkey) along with a vegetable
9-10pm - casein protein shake before bed

Throughout the day I snack on Almonds, sometimes fruit (early in the day), protein bars and cliff bars. I also make turkey patties that have sauteed vegetables mixed into them which I then bake in the oven. I use those as snacks as well.

thoughts?

[oscarjones]

Yes TRT is Test repla***ent therapy. Pct is Post cycle therapy .

It's great you are having a doctor work with you on your regimen. As far dosing goes, you could go ahead and try out 250mg/week however in my personal experience I've done test only cycles with 300mg/week and then 500mg/week and the difference is very noticeable, 500mg/week yielded much greater adipose tissue metabolism, state of well being, and strength/muscle hypertrophy. To each his own though and I would implore you to experiment for yourself, as everyone's different.

As far as hCG dosing goes, did you mean 200 IU, and not 20 IU? Because 20 IU is a very low dose, even multiple times per week, in terms of stimulating your FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and LH (Luteinizing hormone). 200 IU multiple times per week (every 2-4 days) would be more appropriate in my experience.

Your diet could use some work. Can you count up the calories in each meal? Then find a total at the end of your day? This will help with tailoring it to fit your body weight. Also, there's some really great informational threads in the diet section that will guide you in choosing a balance of macronutrients (fats vs proteins vs carbs), and really your goals are to get cut up, so diet is very important.

Anastrozole, I would guess you're typical dose would be somewhere on the low end due to your low dose of Test and what appears to be low dose of hCG, I would guess no more than 1mg/week of the stuff, unless you are prone to aromatase... then maybe .5mg 2-3x a week or 0.25mg divided respectfully times a week... you'd have to really see how you feel with this one, because killing too much estrogen will be harmful just like too much, and you'll feel crappy as well as suffer in the gains department.

[jgnyc]

Yes TRT is Test repla***ent therapy. Pct is Post cycle therapy .

It's great you are having a doctor work with you on your regimen. As far dosing goes, you could go ahead and try out 250mg/week however in my personal experience I've done test only cycles with 300mg/week and then 500mg/week and the difference is very noticeable, 500mg/week yielded much greater adipose tissue metabolism, state of well being, and strength/muscle hypertrophy. To each his own though and I would implore you to experiment for yourself, as everyone's different.

As far as hCG dosing goes, did you mean 200 IU, and not 20 IU? Because 20 IU is a very low dose, even multiple times per week, in terms of stimulating your FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and LH (Luteinizing hormone). 200 IU multiple times per week (every 2-4 days) would be more appropriate in my experience.

Your diet could use some work. Can you count up the calories in each meal? Then find a total at the end of your day? This will help with tailoring it to fit your body weight. Also, there's some really great informational threads in the diet section that will guide you in choosing a balance of macronutrients (fats vs proteins vs carbs), and really your goals are to get cut up, so diet is very important.

Anastrozole, I would guess you're typical dose would be somewhere on the low end due to your low dose of Test and what appears to be low dose of hCG, I would guess no more than 1mg/week of the stuff, unless you are prone to aromatase... then maybe .5mg 2-3x a week or 0.25mg divided respectfully times a week... you'd have to really see how you feel with this one, because killing too much estrogen will be harmful just like too much, and you'll feel crappy as well as suffer in the gains department.

Thank you for the response. It is 200 iu's and it's twice weekly on the hCG. I will experiment with the test and see how it goes, I'm thinking I'll continue at the dose I'm taking now and then at the end of the first month I'll up it to .75 twice a week for a total of 1.5 cc's.

I believe I can count up the calories in some meals accurately but dont' think it would be too accurate on all meals. In my journey through this weight loss though, I honestly never once counted calories. I focused on a diet high in protein and low in fat and carbs. I've also focused on getting my carbs from fruits and vegetables primarily rather than starches. Every now and then I'll have some oatmeal in the morning as well. I'll take a look at the diet threads, thanks for the heads up. What would you recommend/advise to better my diet? Also, do you see any negative in my eating protein bars?

[oscarjones]

Thank you for the response. It is 200 iu's and it's twice weekly on the hCG . I will experiment with the test and see how it goes, I'm thinking I'll continue at the dose I'm taking now and then at the end of the first month I'll up it to .75 twice a week for a total of 1.5 cc's.

I believe I can count up the calories in some meals accurately but dont' think it would be too accurate on all meals. In my journey through this weight loss though, I honestly never once counted calories. I focused on a diet high in protein and low in fat and carbs. I've also focused on getting my carbs from fruits and vegetables primarily rather than starches. Every now and then I'll have some oatmeal in the morning as well. I'll take a look at the diet threads, thanks for the heads up. What would you recommend/advise to better my diet? Also, do you see any negative in my eating protein bars?

Sounds good to me.

Yeah proteins bars are crap. I'd rather see you eat beef jerky or something, haha. In all honesty you're diet is pretty low in carbs, which is one approach to cutting bodyfat, however if you do this I'd like to see you add some essential fatty acids in with your veggies...

For example: Rough estimate of macros and suggestions.

8am - 5 eggs scrambled Solid meal, I would add in some veggies, make an omelet or something! Macros (30g pro, 0g carb, 25g fat)

10am - protein shake with a banana in it Assuming you're having 1 scoop whey, you could up this to 2 scoops for some more proteins and calories, and maybe 1tbs Extra virgin olive oil for some healthy fats! Believe it or not you need some healthy essential fatty acids in your diet even when trying to diet and lose weight. Macros would be (50g pro, 25g carb, 15g fat?)

12-1pm - lunch always consists of a protein (ground turkey, grilled chicken, lean red meat) along with either steamed broccoli or steamed carrots/broccoli/coliflower mix Not bad, how much protein here? Lets say 8 oz? Steamed veggies are excellent. Add in some essential fatty acids here, avocados are a great one. Maybe add in some more extra virgin olive oil over your steamed veggies? Macros something like (50g pro, 5g carb, 14-21g fat?)

4pm - power crunch protein bar or another portion of protein and vegetables I would dismiss protein bar obviously, mostly crap inside them with a bunch of artificial bullshit, try another source of protein like turkey chicken fish, or you could can of tuna. Again more EFA's if you're cutting carbs so much. Lets say 8oz protein again. (50g pro, 5g carb, 30g fat).

7pm - dinner consists of 8-10 oz of protein (red meat, chicken, turkey) along with a vegetable Nice, avocado right? Or you could do some natty peanut butter/almond butter. Any nut/seed oil/butter is going to have some decent EFA content. (50g pro, 5g carb, 30g fat)

9-10pm - casein protein shake before bed Casein is good if you can bear it, makes me sick to be honest. I'd opt for another whole food source like protein snack.

That's basically 2000-2500 calories. You shouldn't go below this to be honest. Work your way UP to get to at least 2000 kcals and it will help to speed up your body's metabolism. Also, while on the test, you'll be able to eat more and gain less adipose tissue. Problem lots of people have with caloric restriction is they are shutting their metabolisms down and it hurts them more than anything. You can't keep reducing your calories hoping to lose weight because of homeostasis. You're body will adjust and you'll keep lowering the caloric number, until what point? Zero? No no.

At first you may be thinking that's a lot of food since I guarantee you're not used to eating that much clean food a day. Start slowly. If you're eating 1000-1500 cals a day right now, climb slowly over the course of a few weeks. Listen to your body.

Hope it helps, just a quick breakdown and overview for you.

[jgnyc]

Sounds good to me.

Yeah proteins bars are crap. I'd rather see you eat beef jerky or something, haha. In all honesty you're diet is pretty low in carbs, which is one approach to cutting bodyfat, however if you do this I'd like to see you add some essential fatty acids in with your veggies...

For example: Rough estimate of macros and suggestions.



Hope it helps, just a quick breakdown and overview for you.

Your posts have been extremely helpful and greatly appreciated. To be honest, I do feel like I haven't been eating enough which is why I asked. I'll do away with the protein bars and start incorporating much of what you said. Veggies at breakfast is a great idea and I will incorporate it. I should have noted my mid morning protein shake does include 1 tablespoon of peanut butter as well as the banana and I usually do 1 1/2 scoops of protein (whey protein isolate) but I'll up it to 2 from now on. I do incorporate avocado at lunch and dinner from time to time but not nearly as much as I should. I usually season the grilled chicken for lunch with olive oil and seasonings (no sodium) but I'll start putting some olive oil over the veggies as well. The lunch size portion is accurate at about 8 oz daily btw. EFA's can also be found in nuts and seeds as well correct? I'll do some research on what other sources I can use to get EFA's from as well. If there are any you recommend, I'm all ears. The casein I can bear and to be honest, I enjoy it at night. I actually only mix the powder with water since I don't want to add in any extra fat/carbs before bed.

I'm very, very disciplined and dedicated when I put my mind to something and I'm extremely focused on doing this the "right" way. I greatly appreciate your advice and will definitely put it to use. I'm looking forward to this being the final steps to changing my life from 314 down to hopefully the 220 range.

Again, thank you very much for your help!

[oscarjones]

Your posts have been extremely helpful and greatly appreciated. To be honest, I do feel like I haven't been eating enough which is why I asked. I'll do away with the protein bars and start incorporating much of what you said. Veggies at breakfast is a great idea and I will incorporate it. I should have noted my mid morning protein shake does include 1 tablespoon of peanut butter as well as the banana and I usually do 1 1/2 scoops of protein (whey protein isolate) but I'll up it to 2 from now on. I do incorporate avocado at lunch and dinner from time to time but not nearly as much as I should. I usually season the grilled chicken for lunch with olive oil and seasonings (no sodium) but I'll start putting some olive oil over the veggies as well. The lunch size portion is accurate at about 8 oz daily btw. EFA's can also be found in nuts and seeds as well correct? I'll do some research on what other sources I can use to get EFA's from as well. If there are any you recommend, I'm all ears. The casein I can bear and to be honest, I enjoy it at night. I actually only mix the powder with water since I don't want to add in any extra fat/carbs before bed.

I'm very, very disciplined and dedicated when I put my mind to something and I'm extremely focused on doing this the "right" way. I greatly appreciate your advice and will definitely put it to use. I'm looking forward to this being the final steps to changing my life from 314 down to hopefully the 220 range.

Again, thank you very much for your help!

Glad I could help! Hope it pays off for you. You seem to know what you're doing. Yes, nuts and seeds whether it's in oil, butter, or natural form are very yielding of healthy fats. Also, fish oil supplements like Carlson's are probably the top choice for bio available EFA you could get your hands on, and if you spend money on any supplements, I would recommend this be one of them. Remember, proteins and carbs have a less dense caloric value than fats do, so if you are feeling like you need some more calories just up the fats a bit, especially when cutting carbs because you need at least 1 fuel source... Typically it's sugar, but many tend to increase their fat macros when their carbs are decreased as a compensation, less insulin spiking and higher levels of glucagon (the fat burning hormone, essentially).

[jgnyc]

Awesome, I will take that into account as well. You're the third person that has told me I should be taking the Carlson's fish oil... I think it's time I buy it and stop playing around with the fish oil pills, lol. I've printed out what you've recommended and will be using it as a reference sourece, so thank you again for your time. If you're interested once all is said and done, I'll post pics.

Thank you!

[AXx]

Not to hijack the thread but reading this has helped me. I am also 6'0 I weigh approx 228lbs with 18-21% bf, idk. I also have implemented the Paleo approach. I did it years ago and really liked the results.

I don't know about you but carbs hurt me (does that make sense) I feel bloated like a pot belly pig. I read all the time where everyone eats carbs, and a lot of em! I just somehow do better by not eating them as much. I never heard of increasing the Essential fats while decreasing carbs. I like that. Sorry for the ADD approach to the thread but thanks.

[jg2243]

I think your body fat is to high to cycle ... I would drop the fat then cycle ... That's my opinion!!!!

[oscarjones]

Awesome, I will take that into account as well. You're the third person that has told me I should be taking the Carlson's fish oil... I think it's time I buy it and stop playing around with the fish oil pills, lol. I've printed out what you've recommended and will be using it as a reference sourece, so thank you again for your time. If you're interested once all is said and done, I'll post pics.

Thank you!

I look forward to seeing your progress!

Not to hijack the thread but reading this has helped me. I am also 6'0 I weigh approx 228lbs with 18-21% bf, idk. I also have implemented the Paleo approach. I did it years ago and really liked the results.

I don't know about you but carbs hurt me (does that make sense) I feel bloated like a pot belly pig. I read all the time where everyone eats carbs, and a lot of em! I just somehow do better by not eating them as much. I never heard of increasing the Essential fats while decreasing carbs. I like that. Sorry for the ADD approach to the thread but thanks.

Look into something called SIBO (Small intestine bacterial overgrowth). Google Sibo info and you'll find a great website. Basically what happens is bacteria sneaks up into your small intestine that doesn't necessarily belong there in abundance and ends up causing a hydrogen-methane gas reaction after being exposed to the foods you ingest, which then triggers distention through means of excess gas build up and the process of inflammation.

This info could help you you can easily correct such, temporarily, with antibiotics such as Rifaximin and Metronidazole for about 10-14 days. Then reestablish your beneficial flora with probiotics such as lactobacillus.

[oscarjones]

I think your body fat is to high to cycle ... I would drop the fat then cycle ... That's my opinion!!!!

Enough with the parroting please. Honestly, jgnyc is running a very low dose protocol, and is keeping his estrogen under control with proper aromatase inhibition, body fat and estrogen shouldn't be too much concern.