Prevent damage to joints and tendons.

**iwitbad** · 06-07-2012, 10:50 PM

I know most people recommend using only test for your first cycle.

However, AAS usage has been associated with damage to tendons.

Stanozolol seems to be popular among endurance and is also known increase collagen synthesis. More collagen synthesis = healthy tendons. So should one include it in their first cycle or not? Stanozolol is methylated so it can be taken orally. I am unclear about its sides on the liver.

Well the main question here is, is it better to include stanozolol along with test (to preserve tendon health) or not?

**The Titan99** · 06-08-2012, 12:34 AM

No, that is in fact the opp of the truth. Stanozolol is terrible for the joints. Maybe your thinking of Nandrolone . In any case, Testosterone and tendon/joint damage is usually occurs with people with little or no lifting experience, bad form and rapid increase of muscular strength.

So no, it is not better.

**DanB** · 06-08-2012, 12:43 AM

Some of the studys on this topic seem to contradict eachother, I have seen studys and articles that show deca , eq, winny is good/bad

The verdict from the end user is that winny is terrible on joints, tendons and is notorious for injurys related to this due to the fact that it decreases collagen cross linking, effectively making tendons brittle

**iwitbad** · 06-08-2012, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by The Titan99

No, that is in fact the opp of the truth. Stanozolol is terrible for the joints. Maybe your thinking of Nandrolone . In any case, Testosterone and tendon/joint damage is usually occurs with people with little or no lifting experience, bad form and rapid increase of muscular strength.

So no, it is not better.

Really, so it is the opposite then, i guess its collagen synthesis properties don't really help.

Doesn't testosterone reduce collage synthesis, how do you prevent this side? none pays any attention to their tendon or joint health before going on a cycle!

**The Titan99** · 06-08-2012, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by DanB

Some of the studys on this topic seem to contridacte eachother, I have seen studys that show deca ,eq, winny is good/bad

The verdict from the end user is that winny is terrible on joints, tendons and is notorious for injurys related to this due to the fact that it decreases collegen cross linking, effectively making tendons brittle

Personally I've had great luck from Nandrolone And thev only time I used winny I dropped it due to terrible joint problems.

**DanB** · 06-08-2012, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by The Titan99

Personally I've had great luck from Nandrolone And thev only time I used winny I dropped it due to terrible joint problems.

Thats why I favour real world experiences rather then studys or theorys on paper

**DanB** · 06-08-2012, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by iwitbad

Really, so it is the opposite then, i guess its collagen synthesis properties don't really help.

Doesn't testosterone reduce collage synthesis, how do you prevent this side? none pays any attention to their tendon or joint health before going on a cycle!

As titan already said, this is the reason for building a good base, and using correct form, personally I have had 0 problems with tendons unless on winny at the time

**iwitbad** · 06-08-2012, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by DanB

As titan already said, this is the reason for building a good base, and using correct form, personally I have had 0 problems with tendons unless on winny at the time

Yeah, makes sense, none should cycle before they are lifting admirable weight naturally with good form, snapping a tendon could be very detrimental for training n the future.

Say someone has been lifting seriously and has great form, the first cycle you would recommend is test only. I'm guessing that is what the consensus is here.

**The Titan99** · 06-08-2012, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by iwitbad

Yeah, makes sense, none should cycle before they are lifting admirable weight naturally with good form, snapping a tendon could be very detrimental for training n the future.

Say someone has been lifting seriously and has great form, the first cycle you would recommend is test only. I'm guessing that is what the consensus is here.

That is your best bet by far. And if your diets good, your training split is solid your first test cycle is going to be awesome man....

**magic32** · 06-08-2012, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by DanB

Some of the studys on this topic seem to contradict eachother, I have seen studys and articles that show deca , eq, winny is good/bad

The verdict from the end user is that winny is terrible on joints, tendons and is notorious for injurys related to this due to the fact that it decreases collagen cross linking, effectively making tendons brittle

NOT Winny, you'll have to post those for believability Danny Boy!!!!

**Times Roman** · 06-08-2012, 05:03 PM

i purchased 10 grams of powder winnie a few years ago. after trying it, i had to toss it since it was killing my knees and preventing me from dooing certain routines.

**MTBiker6696** · 06-08-2012, 05:27 PM

I really think winny gives some but not everyone joint paint becuase this is my last week. (Week 6) on 50 mged (oral) and I have NO joint paint. And I really use my joints (knee's). 2 hours
biking at a time. But I don't know if this helps. I drink allot but allot of water. I take fish oil. Joint suppliments and milk thistle. I will make a post with specs and details when I finish my cycle with my experience

**Times Roman** · 06-08-2012, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by MTBiker6696

I really think winny gives some but not everyone joint paint becuase this is my last week. (Week 6) on 50 mged (oral) and I have NO joint paint. And I really use my joints (knee's). 2 hours
biking at a time. But I don't know if this helps. I drink allot but allot of water. I take fish oil. Joint suppliments and milk thistle. I will make a post with specs and details when I finish my cycle with my experience

I was an amature long distance runner (competed internationally) and injured my knees. I've had to be very careful since then. so for me, winnie was a no go since it dried my joints out. but for others without injuries and still young, may not be a problem.

**Rwy** · 06-08-2012, 05:37 PM

does var dry out joints?

**Times Roman** · 06-08-2012, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Rwy2778

does var dry out joints?

not that I've noticed, and I'm very susceptible to knee/joint pain

**MTBiker6696** · 06-08-2012, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I was an amature long distance runner (competed internationally) and injured my knees. I've had to be very careful since then. so for me, winnie was a no go since it dried my joints out. but for others without injuries and still young, may not be a problem.

I will add also I didn't jump on a cycle without doing nothing in the past. I trained olympic weightlifting for almost 4 years. So my tendoms aren't that weak I assume. And what I do now. Biking and a little weight training. Puts allot LESS Stress on my body then when I did weightlifting. I saw a huge increase in speed and stamina in my biking. So personally I love winny. I will do it again but with test. Cause winny only gave me lots of gains with it only. I can imagine with test it will gave me more I will try this for my 2nd cycle. Every one is different I guess

**The Titan99** · 06-08-2012, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Rwy2778

does var dry out joints?

Not at all (for me, that is.) I would always use /var instead of winny. Some guy's say winny's stronger but I don't see how that helps if you can't move your elbows, which are my Achilles heel, no pun intended.

Not to highjack the thread, but I've done a lot of Var in the past and have been a convert to the God of all orals (once again, my opinion) the MIGHTY TBOL!!!!

**MTBiker6696** · 06-08-2012, 09:20 PM

So I hear. I hear and read that allot. Tbol. Tempting

**Times Roman** · 06-08-2012, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by MTBiker6696

So I hear. I hear and read that allot. Tbol. Tempting

and how harsh is TBol on tthe liver?

**The Titan99** · 06-08-2012, 09:55 PM

I'm not too sure, but I've run anadrol in the past without a problem and I'm sure it's nothing like that. Still, it would be good to have someone with some knowledge chime in on that one... It was tested heavily in the late 70's early 80's by the East German's but I wouldn't think liver toxicity is real high on their list of concern's back then. A lot of people think it's expensive, but I get it for about the same as Var. Aside from that though, tbol seems to be every good thing about Var and dbol with no water retention or estro hassle. Once again, not citing studies here, it's just what I've experienced.

**iwitbad** · 06-08-2012, 11:04 PM

Why risk taking methylated steroids ? They could definitely damage the liver, well it depends on a case by case basis of course but I feel a lot of newbies start off with an oral like Var just because they don't want to inject, they think that an oral will always be safer than an inject-able! It night not affect you liver but why risk something that you are not sure off right? Especially when the reason is that they are scared to inject themselves

I am not speaking with regards to senior members, vets or experienced users, they know what they are doing.

My brother (26) for example is still an idiot and wants to start off with var because he doesn't want to inject. It was a pain in the butt to convince him otherwise. Funny how people work huh!

**The Titan99** · 06-08-2012, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by iwitbad

Why risk taking methylated steroids ? They could definitely damage the liver, well it depends on a case by case basis of course but I feel a lot of newbies start off with an oral like Var just because they don't want to inject, they think that an oral will always be safer than an inject-able! It night not affect you liver but why risk something that you are not sure off right? Especially when the reason is that they are scared to inject themselves

I am not speaking with regards to senior members, vets or experienced users, they know what they are doing.

My brother (26) for example is still an idiot and wants to start off with var because he doesn't want to inject. It was a pain in the butt to convince him otherwise. Funny how people work huh!

That is a very stupid reason to do orals only as opposed to an injectable and is a sure indicator of complete lack of research. I almost find it a topic annoying beyond discussion, but there's no denying the synergistic effect of a good oral with an injectable.